Revolutionary
All Star
Saying more with less is not necessarily better than saying less with more depending on what you attempt to do.
Lupe Fiasco: "Metaphors and punchlines matter....don't need to be a great lyricist to tell a story....shouldn't rely on delivery and flow"
- Thread starter the elastic
- Start date
Revolutionary
All Star
If you take Stephen King's IT, probably his best book...this shyt literally has 200 pages of pure description, that you feel like don't do much for the story but it actually helps you visualize the whole shyt.
When it dropped, everybody was hating on it but 30 years later everybody understand how genius it was.
When it dropped, everybody was hating on it but 30 years later everybody understand how genius it was.
spliz
SplizThaDon
The pont is there is room for both. And if u can't appreciate both. U don't understand lyricism.
I fw with Jay but imo the only rapper to really do both at the highest level and have it come off natural was BIG, Biggie had the punchlines that were slick and natural.... send you a first class ticket to Luci-fer, real name Cristo-pher, watch me set it off like Vivi-ca... shyt so simple but its so smooth
then he would be able to drop songs like I got a story to tell, nikkas bleed, Gimme the loot, Me and my bytch, Suicidal thoughts... all top tier stories 
spliz
SplizThaDon
Jay is better than Biggie at it. Listen to every verse on Threats and get back to me. shyt just the first like 6 bars of the 2nd verse.I fw with Jay but imo the only rapper to really do both at the highest level and have it come off natural was BIG, Biggie had the punchlines that were slick and natural.... send you a first class ticket to Luci-fer, real name Cristo-pher, watch me set it off like Vivi-ca... shyt so simple but its so smooth
Metal Face
Superstar
delivery/flow >>> lyrical miracle bars
FappleMeOff
All Star
False. He’s made many great songs in recent years.
Just hasn’t made a good album in 12 years
Aesop Rock is understandable, you just have to have a big vocabulary. He's White Lupe if you ask me. Complicated to be complicated.
Rappers, sorted by the size of their vocabulary
Literary elites love to rep Shakespeare’s vocabulary: across his entire corpus, he uses 28,829 words, suggesting he knew over 100,000 words and arguably had the largest vocabulary, ever. I decided to compare this data point against the most famous artists in hip hop. I used each artist’s first...
pudding.cool
Jay Z shyt was better to me because his storytelling is actually believable and real. That takes incredible skill to make your life entertaining imoI fw with Jay but imo the only rapper to really do both at the highest level and have it come off natural was BIG, Biggie had the punchlines that were slick and natural.... send you a first class ticket to Luci-fer, real name Cristo-pher, watch me set it off like Vivi-ca... shyt so simple but its so smooth
I wonder if Lupe by his own definition would consider Biggie a great lyricist since he wasn't a punch king. This whole shyt he's babbling about here is why he puts out garbage like this
He thinks this kind of shyt is quality "lyricsm" babbling meaningless themes together to produce one big word salad. The shyt is the epitome of "lyrical miracle spiritual" babble that so many stereotypical lyrics fans conceptualize as being high caliber rapping.
Let's take Andre 3000 verse on "Return of the gangsta" for example. Widely considered a classic verse and a perfect example of 3000 general style of multi syllable rhyming matched with poignant content and social commentary
According to Lupes metrics this wouldn't be elite lyricism because he doesn't nerd out with a bunch of forced metaphors or punchlineshow silly does that sound when you actually repeat it out loud.
I agree with a lot of this post and a big Lupe fan. Music is subjective....people forget that. the shyt is SUBJECTIVE. It's what you like and value as a fan.
My favorite part of lyricism 90 percent of time is the ability to evoke emotion. Which I why I often reach for Pac, Scarface, recent killer mike........or if I play Lupe and I want emotion..I listen to drogas wave, he say she say, hurt me soul, etc. Prisoner 1 and 2 and Madonna by Lupe are "lyrical" but full of emotion. It's like for R&B Mariah has a better technical voice than Mary J....but Mary >>>>>>Mariah all day because I want the emotion.
It's all what you like. To me Nas, Jay, Face, Ghost face, Lupe, Black Thought, Cube, elzhi, Pac, Andre 3000, Big boi, Rakim, Killer Mike , etc are all dope lyricists and they approach it different ways at different times.
Sometimes I just want lyrical flexing (fukk the content, meaning, etc): cue black thought funk flex freestyle or Jay lyrical exercise or mural. Those have meaning, depth but to me I go to songs like that for the lyrical flexing.
Sometimes I want abstract shyt or a puzzle or to learn: a lot of lupe played then.... a lot of BT, Nas, Killer Mike....because they read a lot and mention a lot of shyt that makes me go google or read to understand. It's not complicated per se. It's just obscure and like shyt like that. Like what the fukk is XYZ let me go find out.
Sometimes I want to a vivid picture painted: I'm playing a lot of Scarface then, etc.
Sometimes I want an artist making art a whole album, a whole thematic statement: Untitled, Deeply Rooted, Drogas, Damn near Kendricks whole discography, Me against the world coming out, Micheal, etc coming out.
It's all what you like.
I got no problem with anyone saying ANY artist is trash to them....I have a problem with someone saying an artist should be trash to EVERYONE. I and the homie @Billy Ocean love the abstract style Ghost used on Supreme Clientele, but my brother thinks that shyt is terrible! I 9/10 and the homie chip skylark will like what Lupe drops, the homie @Billy Ocean and my brother would be like "man turn that shyt off" lol I love squad up Wayne circa 2002. I think the p*ssy this p*ssy that slime Wayne is terrible. I've hated Eminem for years because he don't talk about shyt...I don't care how many entendres, multi syllables, cross references, internal schemes, or metaphors you use.
It's just opinion.
edit site tripping @Chip Skylark is i meant to at not @Chip
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He’s actually saying (and is) quite the opposite. He’s talking about dudes like Eminem (Eminem incorporates punchlines into his shhit a lot the last 10 years…they be ass tho
) and Kendrick and Royce and Banks, etc… great rhymers, can stack multis and compounds all over the place. That’s dope…but that’s kinda easy to do….especially at this point. I remember Lupe actually saying that “that Eminem shhit” was amazing back when everybody couldn’t do it lol…all the syllables…but now that shhit is mid work.Lupe isn’t just a rhymer at all…the actual shhit he’s saying is ridiculously layered and entendre’d the fukk out…and the whole piece might be a metaphor for something else lol. It’s levels bro.
It’s all opinion tho in terms of what’s more enjoyable to listen to/works better on a record…most fans don’t give a flying fukk about none of that wordplay bullshhit like that lol. Some people think that shhit Eminem does is just mind boggling unreal shhit and he’s the greatest ever,
. Some feel like that about Kendrick. Roc Marci. Etc… You name em. Subjective
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You can’t make this shyt up lmaoThe booth arguing with Lupe Fiasco about lyricism now. Nikka BOM
See I respectfully disagree. But you a great spitter spliz so you know more than I do about laying something in the stu
I feel like Rewind was child’s play for Nas, it was just mind blowing for us cuz who would really think about some shyt like that? But I find more depth in a song like 2nd Childhood
That couldn’t be further from the truth
As a matter of fact, pre Atlantic Lupe was probably one of the best punchline rappers ever
In 2002-2005 he was doing drawn out word play schemes through verses way before it was even big in battle rap
spliz
SplizThaDon
Nah bro the way the nikka literally spit the story backwards. Spit sentences backwards. And it wasn't even some ABC bullshyt story either. It was comedy in it. It was just dope. And it was easy to follow as well. Which is even MORE difficult to do. One of the few times in my life where some rap shyt literally blew my mind. Not many rappers made me feel the way Nas did during his Stillmatic thru Lost Tapes run.
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This!
Lupe simple on the surface usually....the "nerd"shyt is there to dig for if care too.
Aesop Rock is trash TO ME.