Mark Cuban: "MVP Is A Toss Up Between Lebron & Harden"

[Professor Emeritus]

Harden and Kawhi IMO. LeBron with that super team and being in the East should translate to a way higher win percentage for him to be a MVP candidate. If the Cavs had a record similar to the Spurs even, I'd throw him in the conversation. Russ not even leading a top 10 team at the moment.

Kawhi should actually be the MVP favorite to be real. He's been making his case this past month so I expect way more MVP chants going his way in the upcoming weeks.

When Lebron had a super team, their record was great. The losses have only come since everyone and their mama started getting hurt and/or Lebron missing games.

And Lebron/Kawhi missed the same # of games, just Cavs are 0-5 when Lebron misses while Spurs manage to be 4-1 without Kawhi. Cavs are 42-14 without Lebron and Spurs are 44-12 without Kawhi, and that includes a long stretch where Cavs have had pivotal guys sick/injured.

That seems close enough to "similar to the Spurs" record for me.

Westbrook should be the MVP
You cannot or up those numbers just stad padding
I know LeBron tried

Westbrook getting 8.6 uncontested rebounds a game and having his bigs actively block out guys on free throws in order to get him an easy board - Lebron never done anything remotely like that.

Westbrook has 16 games hitting 10-11 rebounds compared to only ONE where he ended stuck on 9. And since the first month of the season, 12 games with 10-11 assists compared to only 2 stuck on 9. Lebron's ended more games stuck on 8-9 rebounds or assists than any other player in history.

There ain't even a comparison here.

Okc is losing because Olidipo is out and there's nobody to pick up the scoring. OKC even making the playoffs is a big deal since they lost ibaka and durant..

Lebron is so valuable but Miami about to make the playoffs without the big 3.

Thunder were projected to make the playoffs with exactly this lineup. Who is going to keep them out of the playoffs, the Mavs?

And there literally isn't a single guy getting on the floor for Miami who played with Lebron there.

More like the opposite, he could sit out 41 games, play like shyt in the other 41 and people would still claim he's the MVP simply because he's LeBron and he's gonna dominate the Eastern conference in the playoffs.

LeBron is always good, obviously the best player when he's at his peak, but the thing is that he's not always playing the regular season at his peak. And that's what the award is for so no, LeBron shouldn't get it every year just for being LeBron.

You're basing this off of exactly which year when Lebron had a poor regular season?

Lebron doing everything for the Cavs playing more minutes than anyone else in the NBA, averaging a 26-8-9 on sick shooting numbers while holding down their defense, and you're criticizing him for "not always playing the regular season at his peak."


Meanwhile, Westbrook and Harden in there literally not doing anything whatsoever on defense, half of every game, and they "playing hard", right?

Coach never got credit.. They have no superstars so the coach must be decent.. Lebron should have been MJ status in Miami winning a title every year. Take Lebron off Cleveland and put westbrook there they have the same record..

You think Spolstra is a great coach.

Lebron should have single-handedly pulled the Heat through in 2014 when everyone on the Spurs was shooting 60% while Wade/Bosh averaged 14ppg each.

Say a team starting Joel Anthony, Ronnie Turiaf, Dexter Pittman, Mario Chalmers, and the corpses of Mike Bibby, Rashard Lewis, and Ray Allen in playoff games should have been a four-in-four dynasty.

And I left off ready-to-retire Shane Battier and Udonis Haslem as the "good" starters.

It's between

1. Westbrook
1A.. Harden
3. Kawhi... By the way just give him the next 5 defensive player of the year awards
4.. LeBron

People/media shannon sharpe and that fakkit nick wright need to stopped with Lebron need to be MVP because the Cavs ain't shyt without him..nikka please

The Cavs are better than okc and the rockets if Westbrook and harden wasn't playing either... Rockets and okc would be at 20 wins without them 2 or even worst playing in the west

Cavs are 0-5 without Lebron this year, 4-19 in the last three years.

And who would even care if they were better than OKC and the Rockets without Lebron, because they are FAR better with him. Bulls without Jordan were a hell of a lot better than Jazz without Malone or the Rockets without Hakeem or the Sonics without Payton...that mean Jordan shouldn't have been getting MVPs?

I cant entertain a discussion that doesn't have Westbrook top 2
45-48 wins out west without KD
Averaging a 32 point Trip Double

He wasn't even a top-3 MVP candidate last year, and he ain't doing anything different this year other than using more possessions on offense, not trying on defense, and getting his teammates to give him all the uncontested rebounds.

And the Thunder were projected to finish with 45 wins before the season started, when we knew exactly who Westbrook was already.

Can you tell me ONE way in which Westbrook has improved his game from last year?

 

[Houston911]

Kobe, Dwight, or Melo didn't bebenfit from Dantoni...

Fukk is your point you simple ass n*gga? Didnt i tell you stop quoting me?

EVERY pg/lead guard that buys into dantonis system has improved individual success

 

[Ben.]

If Spurs get the #1 seed no doubt Leonard is the MVP, if not then Harden.

 

[who_better_than_me]

Fukk is your point you simple ass n*gga? Didnt i tell you stop quoting me?

EVERY pg/lead guard that buys into dantonis system has improved individual success

Calm your lame ass down.

 

[FS4LFE]

Harden or Kawhi. There's no wrong choice. Even Westbrook.

 

[mvp_status]

The award NEVER goes to a player whose team is less than a 2 seed

Its gonna be either Kawhi or Lebron

 

[the cool]

Cuban is right. The criteria should be 50 wins or more

Okc ain't getting to 50 this season

 

[DonKnock]

Westbrook is within 3 assists of not having a triple double anymore


The margin is that close.

 

[stepbackj34spud]

How is LeBron MVP on the most stacked team in history? FOH

 

[Shadow King]

LeBron can be MVP every year literally people just tired of him getting it

He's 4 years removed from an MVP so I'm not seeing how voter's fatigue is in play.

More like the opposite, he could sit out 41 games, play like shyt in the other 41 and people would still claim he's the MVP simply because he's LeBron and he's gonna dominate the Eastern conference in the playoffs.

LeBron is always good, obviously the best player when he's at his peak, but the thing is that he's not always playing the regular season at his peak. And that's what the award is for so no, LeBron shouldn't get it every year just for being LeBron.

This I can agree with.

 

[qnsfinest]

How is LeBron MVP on the most stacked team in history? FOH

The "stacked" team is like 4-20 in the last 3 seasons without lebron. Fukk the finals, I don't know think they can make the playoffs without Lebron

 

[Drip Bayless]

Harden got better players around him than kawhi or Bron?

Nah Westbrook

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lebron is so valuable but Miami about to make the playoffs without the big 3.

He went and called me a hater and negged me just for pointing out his claim was ridiculous.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Westbrook is within 3 assists of not having a triple double anymore


The margin is that close.

Not that it matters - he's padding way too heavy for that. Since his coach lets him have the ball in his hands every possession and make whatever play he wants, it's literally impossible for Westbrook to finish with fewer assists than he needs. The only thing that's kept him from averaging 13 assists/game to this point is that he also wants the scoring title and guns for random things like that 40-point streak. But if he were 50 assists short going into the last three games, he'd just stop shooting 25 shots/game, do nothing but try to force-feed shots to his teammates on every possession no matter what the score was, and probably get the 50 before he even got to the third game.

It does, though, point out yet another reason why it's stupid as hell to give the MVP based on a guy passing an imaginary meaningless boundary.


Westbrook's shooting has dropped below 42% and his turnovers are close to 6 a game. I wonder if there's an imaginary boundary there too for his stans, or is the grace limitless? If Westbrook goes 7-25 every game and kills his FG% down to 37% or something, if his turnovers go up to 8 a game, does that even matter as long as his points, rebounds, and assists still pass the right mark?

 

[DonKnock]

Not that it matters - he's padding way too heavy for that. Since his coach lets him have the ball in his hands every possession and make whatever play he wants, it's literally impossible for Westbrook to finish with fewer assists than he needs. The only thing that's kept him from averaging 13 assists/game to this point is that he also wants the scoring title and guns for random things like that 40-point streak. But if he were 50 assists short going into the last three games, he'd just stop shooting 25 shots/game, do nothing but try to force-feed shots to his teammates on every possession no matter what the score was, and probably get the 50 before he even got to the third game.

It does, though, point out yet another reason why it's stupid as hell to give the MVP based on a guy passing an imaginary meaningless boundary.


Westbrook's shooting has dropped below 42% and his turnovers are close to 6 a game. I wonder if there's an imaginary boundary there too for his stans, or is the grace limitless? If Westbrook goes 7-25 every game and kills his FG% down to 37% or something, if his turnovers go up to 8 a game, does that even matter as long as his points, rebounds, and assists still pass the right mark?

I don't think it matters because of the pervasive characterization of Harden as a "no defense playing flopper" and the diametric characterization of Westbrook as "A gladiator that will do anything it takes to will his team to victory". Every deduction is a derivative of those two images.

Westbrook takes 30 shots in a game and the narrative is: "Well who else on his team is supposed to take those shots?"

The Rockets take 50+ three's in a game and hit 38% and the narrative is: "This many threes is ruining basketball!"

Kawhi has become the safety net pick should Russ slip out of the triple double.

I hate pinning these three against each other because they're three of my favorite players to watch. But the media, who actually do the voting for MVP, are spineless about how they will switch it up like this. Russ generates the best highlights and the most clicks/ratings, especially due to the KD -> Warriors angle. They spend 3 segments taking about Westbrook wearing essentially a crossing guard vest cause they have nothing better to talk about. The triple double stat is so easy to watch and follow that they can spoon feed it to the casual audience.

Talking about things like points per weighed shot, different actions on a pick and roll, giving a defender different looks over the course of a game to build up to something like this:




Those are hard/boring topics that will lose these casual watchers. Most media and casual fans, all the way up to even a large portion of seasoned fans, don't have the knowledge or nuance to break the game down to this level of elemental phenomena.

There's a reason that NBA players voted Harden their MVP two years ago, constantly rave about his offensive prowess, incorporate his moves into their game (In the SA-NOLA game last weeks they mentioned how Pop has Kawhi pour over tape of Harden to study how to draw fouls and penetrate into the lane craftily as a larger player).

Kawhi goes through a very similar cycle of under-appreciation. People notice steals, but they don't notice icing a PnR, forcing a driver to their weak hand, staying grounded on a shot fake, etc.

Just watch this, it's much easier: