Masculinity

old_timer

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People wanted to define themselves and pick their own labels
So they empowered themselves to do so
And here we are!

I could always don a trollbron remix and create my own words
For instance, instead of homosexual and heterosexual
we can start labeling people dominusexual and submisexual
Or ,, alternatively, we could say.. new rule, breh(ettes)
"If you don't have vaginal sex at least 100x a year, you ain't a heterosexual...sorry"
But this is a line of thinking that leads to the No True Scotsman problem

You would eventually end up like that woman I mentioned in a different post
Trying to think about man-men, woman-men, man-men, and woman-women..
Essentially buy a one way ticket to the funny farm
Because you are cutting ties with sanity
 
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Guile

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What's the point of this argument? Masculinity is socially defined and varies from culture to culture.

What you consider "toxic" may be normal to someone else. So to say there is "toxic masculinity" problem in the black community is not helpful at all. What amount of masculinity is acceptable?
 

Matt504

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What's the point of this argument? Masculinity is socially defined and varies from culture to culture.

What you consider "toxic" may be normal to someone else. So to say there is "toxic masculinity" problem in the black community is not helpful at all. What amount of masculinity is acceptable?

Toxic masculinity doesn't mean "too much" masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is a father telling his son who fell off his bike and hurt himself to "man up" and stop crying.

Toxic masculinity teaches boys to convert pain into anger to be unleashed onto others and due to proximity and other factors, it's usually other Black people on the receiving end of that anger.
 

AllHolosEve

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Let's have an honest conversation about Toxic Masculinity.

10cjfbd.jpg
Came in, realized I aint reading that long ass shyt & saw this... :mjlol::mjcry:
 

Guile

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Toxic masculinity doesn't mean "too much" masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is a father telling his son who fell off his bike and hurt himself to "man up" and stop crying.

Toxic masculinity teaches boys to convert pain into anger to be unleashed onto others and due to proximity and other factors, it's usually other Black people on the receiving end of that anger.

Good points, but men and women promote this sort of masculinity.
 

Knuckles Red

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So... Following that logic, white folks are the most masculine race since they dominated most other cultures and still remain in power today.

According to OP, masculinity is in itself oppressive. "to master, subdue, shape to its will"

If someone does not fit within this narrative are they less of a man?
I swear some of these dudes want to be white men so bad. :pachaha:
 

Afro

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What's the point of this argument? Masculinity is socially defined and varies from culture to culture.

What you consider "toxic" may be normal to someone else. So to say there is "toxic masculinity" problem in the black community is not helpful at all. What amount of masculinity is acceptable?

Toxic masculinity doesn't mean "too much" masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is a father telling his son who fell off his bike and hurt himself to "man up" and stop crying.

Toxic masculinity teaches boys to convert pain into anger to be unleashed onto others and due to proximity and other factors, it's usually other Black people on the receiving end of that anger.

Dude just cherry picked :mjlol:

But I'll answer.

Although it varies from culture to culture, there are basics that apply to any variation of Masculinity. The same can be said for femininity.

You were given these values to live by and there was no question of your role. The freedom lied in how you interacted with the world around you.

Societies used to have "Rites of passage" so you know when you have been deemed an "adult"

Ready to take on the world and carve your own path responsibly.

The issue at hand is that since integration of various cultures into one "melting pot" AKA The American Way,

We cannot agree on values

We cannot agree on when someone is deemed an adult

We cannot agree on "gender roles"

With the advent of social media and everyone having a "voice", there is too much noise to even begin to sit down and figure this all out.

So folks are left with making up their own definitions. You can read studies on when cultures adopt "the American" way of thinking, depression goes UP, the communal way of thinking goes down. Mass confusion.

Remember, humans haven't been around that long, so what happened to make us lose those systems? :sas2:
 

Pazzy

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Masculinity and femininity are social constructs. How they are defined is bound to change. What was seen as masculine or feminine 300 years ago or centuries ago may be different today. At one point, it was masculine for men to wear skirts and feminine for men to wear pants. The future may be different.

A Brief History of Men, Dresses, and Masculinity: An Essay

It's best not to get caught up in labels and definitions. As long as you respect the next person, they respect you and you aren't harming each other with whatever you're doing, live and let live. If a guy wants to wear make up and a dress, he has every right to do that. If a woman wants to wear a suit and pull a baldie, she has every right to do so. I just feel that insecurities are controlling people way too much. It gets to the point where you have people putting down each other or forcing them to be a certain to make themselves feel good such as this "toxic masculinity" talk. The issues that should be dealt with or addressed aren't even being addressed but are rather being manipulated to push society into a certain direction. all this talk about "toxic masculinity" never explain what it is or what aspects of masculinity is toxic or when masculinity becomes toxic. The words "toxic masculinity" imply that masculinity is toxic. To me, that signifies that there is an agenda going on to shift gears in terms of power where women are rising into positions of power that were once dominated by men which is happening. Ironic how this subject pops up when there is about to be a female president in one of the world's most powerful places. It's no coincidence.
 
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Knuckles Red

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We cannot agree on "gender roles"
So why not just do away with them? What is this childlike dependency so many of you have on your gender? Its so telling how so many of you are against oppression when it comes to race, but still so determined to reinforce gender stereotypes/roles.
 

Neuromancer

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This is a central question that men of today face. Indeed, though the present situation is unique because of the constraints that modern society imposes on them, one could argue that men have always had to contend with it: because, "what is masculinity?" is another way to phrase, "what is the measure of man?" Like the buffoon that you are, you posed the question in jest. Still, I'll humour you because though these fools devoid of reason are detrimental to the whole, so are you and those of your kind (@Knuckles Red ) with your counterfactual thought that devolves into nihilism.

There's no philosophical debate on what masculinity is. There can however be one on what masculinity should be (and Satan knows your kind is trying to mold it towards a certain direction), but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. The problem is language, or rather, not so much language as our sometimes inability to convey from it meaning that is understood and agreed by all. When naming things, there is less ambiguity when it comes to the natural world since it is tangible; though also not perfect, it's easier to understand and agree on what a rock is, or water, or fire, or once upon a time a man and a woman. With concepts and ideas there is more room for error since what is bounded to the name is often less tangible and thus more mutable or open to interpretation. However, since the concept of masculinity precedes both you and I, it might be useful to look at the long history that also precedes us and that gave context for the concept. When you do this, what you'll find is that masculinity is intrinsically connected to competition, and thus, dominance and submissiveness. That is, though the great sophists of our age would have us believe that just like patriarchy, masculinity was an evil that men loosed upon the world leaving in its wake female oppression, rape culture, and manspreading, that was not the intent nor the result: historically it was understood as the right way to be a man; not toxic but instead virtue.


And what is it? Ultimately it defaults to one thing: my will be done.

Again, we understood masculinity as the proper way to be a man. And what is the proper way to be a man in a world that is often hostile to life? where resources and time are scarce, and lack of knowledge makes them scarcer? where competition is ever present and we are preyed upon by everything from beasts in the wild to our fellow men (and women)? We are in conflict with nature and masculinity is what enabled us to put into motion our inner desire to subdue and dominate it. To be masculine was understood (if only tacitly) as to exhibit those traits which best aided one affirm and impose their will upon nature, all of it. Though unlike a rock, masculinity is not tangible, still one can see the behaviours that it promotes in both individuals and groups.

Masculinity is tough, masculinity is strength, masculinity is patient, masculinity is cautious, masculinity is disciplined, masculinity is cut-throat, masculinity is violent, masculinity is loyal, masculinity is vengeful, masculinity is daring, masculinity is sacrifice, masculinity is self-serving and yet masculinity is fair though it does not believe in fairness (ask yourself why), masculinity is structure, masculinity is pride, masculinity endures... Masculinity is the will to power.

Or was... Indeed a good way to answer "what is masculinity?" is to ask what does it aim to achieve? Make no mistake its chief concern was mastery (you'll fail to understand what this is beyond the facade). It was - as an analogy - our imperative knowledge, the how to method to the problem posed by our existence. In case you're wondering, the question was: "how do we survive much less thrive and multiple in such a hostile environment?" The answer of course was "be masculine", that is, master and subdue and shape it after our will: domesticate that which is hostile. This was masculinity.


to be continued...
Glory....:blessed:

Have you read Iron John? The Hagakure or fire in the belly?
 

Gravity

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Toxic masculinity doesn't mean "too much" masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is a father telling his son who fell off his bike and hurt himself to "man up" and stop crying.

Toxic masculinity teaches boys to convert pain into anger to be unleashed onto others and due to proximity and other factors, it's usually other Black people on the receiving end of that anger.
That's not "toxic masculinity" it's bad parenting usually rooted in neglect. You run around parroting this "can you define masculinity" question when you don't know what masculinity is yourself.
 
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