Mass Shooting Epidemic Is the Result of Republican Minority Rule

[DEAD7]

Again, the goal of gun legislation is not to have a 100 percent success rate, but to have a positive impact towards addressing the problem.

The goal is to chip away at the 2nd and slowly remove guns from American society.
This is why every regulation passed is followed by calls for more regulation.
It never ends.
There’s a crowd that will not be satisfied until the second is bushed. Some are even in this thread.

Do you or anyone else believe passing these tougher background checks will dead the issue and silence anti gun leftist?
This is why I believe gun regulation must be resisted every step of the way.

...also people that aren't familiar with gun buying, operate under some myth that it's very easy to "legally" own a gun and this is false and they speak out of ignorance.

 

[Gus Money]

I wanna be clear, when you say “less guns” you are suggesting some sort of gun ban?

And prohibition has been proven many times not to work in this country... what is your belief in can work based on?
Please don’t say Australia...

When I say less guns I mean taking steps to reduce the number of guns that people own. It should be clear but this can be done through gun buyback programs, banning certain types of guns (automatic and semi-automatic guns that bring the most carnage shouldn't be owned by most, if any, civilians), stricter background checks, requiring gun safety programs/education before purchasing a gun, having to register all guns just like we register cars, there's plenty of ideas. Equating gun control to prohibition is inaccurate. Nobody I've seen has ever suggested banning all guns. Ever. You're repeatedly arguing against a point that nobody has tried to make.

I'm not sure why you don't want me to talk Australia... but I'm gonna talk about Australia.
Australia's Lessons on Gun Control

He noted that, among other things, the Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul, Friedman pointed out, took just months to implement.

Nothing here suggests any cultural differences between Australia and the US. They took steps to reduce the number of guns and shyt, it worked. The one thing all mass shootings have in common is a gun. Less guns = less gun violence. It's not complicated.

Australia is just one example. Dudes quoted below already posted this article in another thread about this article showing how Switzerland has a high ass rate of gun ownership but practically no mass shootings.

I agree. But this is something much deeper than guns. Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings

This country has a mantra it's unwilling to let go of.

Swiss authorities decide on a local level whether to give people gun permits. They also keep a log of everyone who owns a gun in their region, known as a canton, though hunting rifles and some semiautomatic long arms are exempt from the permit requirement.

But cantonal police don't take their duty dolling out gun licenses lightly. They mightconsult a psychiatrist or talk with authorities in other cantons where a prospective gun buyer has lived before to vet the person.

People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland.

The law also states that anyone who "expresses a violent or dangerous attitude" won't be permitted to own a gun.

Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for "defensive purposes" also have to provethey can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license.

The goal is to reduce the violence/deaths. We still have murder laws even though we can never completely outlaw murder.

 

[Gus Money]

The goal is to chip away at the 2nd and slowly remove guns from American society.
This is why every regulation passed is followed by calls for more regulation.
It never ends.
There’s a crowd that will not be satisfied until the second is bushed. Some are even in this thread.

Do you or anyone else believe passing these tougher background checks will dead the issue and silence anti gun leftist?
This is why I believe gun regulation must be resisted every step of the way.

...also people that aren't familiar with gun buying, operate under some myth that it's very easy to "legally" own a gun and this is false and they speak out of ignorance.

The goal is to reduce the number of mass shootings and senseless gun deaths. You're acting like our current regulations have made much of an impact compared to other countries around the world. Save me with the "those countries are different from the US" angle because that's just deflection.

Are you really saying it's not easy to buy a gun in the US? I can walk into any gun show around the county and walk out with a "legally" purchased gun.

How Easy Is It To Buy A Gun In Ohio? Depends Where You're Shopping

If you're really trying to argue that it's hard to get a gun in America then we can agree to disagree because you're not even acknowledging basic facts if that's the case.

 

[Gus Money]

I stand corrected... it is being spoken about honestly.

Well look at that. We know the right isn't talking about it so all you had to do was step outside of your little right wing bubble.
Or should I say echo chamber

 

[DEAD7]

When I say less guns I mean taking steps to reduce the number of guns that people own. It should be clear but this can be done through gun buyback programs, banning certain types of guns (automatic and semi-automatic guns that bring the most carnage shouldn't be owned by most, if any, civilians), stricter background checks, requiring gun safety programs/education before purchasing a gun, having to register all guns just like we register cars, there's plenty of ideas. Equating gun control to prohibition is inaccurate. Nobody I've seen has ever suggested banning all guns. Ever. You're repeatedly arguing against a point that nobody has tried to make.

I'm not sure why you don't want me to talk Australia... but I'm gonna talk about Australia.
Australia's Lessons on Gun Control


Nothing here suggests any cultural differences between Australia and the US. They took steps to reduce the number of guns and shyt, it worked. The one thing all mass shootings have in common is a gun. Less guns = less gun violence. It's not complicated.

Australia is just one example. Dudes quoted below already posted this article in another thread about this article showing how Switzerland has a high ass rate of gun ownership but practically no mass shootings.

So you want certain guns banned?
Australia is surrounded by water and its government has excellent control over who and what enters/leaves...Terrible example, they do not have an unsecured border with a crime ridden country to the south of them. You are literally making the Illinois case for me. Where despite the toughest gun laws guns are still plentiful because they are brought in from the neighboring states.

Switzerland flys in the face of more guns = more mass shootings... and shows training and mental health checks at the state level are all that are needed.
Its our culture, specifically white supremacist that needs to be focused on, and addressed. The fact that all the shooters are white males should be the focal point, not gun regulation as cacs like Sanders are pushing.
Again shoutout to AOC for placing the focus squarely on crazy cacs.

 

[DEAD7]

If you're really trying to argue that it's hard to get a gun in America then we can agree to disagree because you're not even acknowledging basic facts if that's the case.

Fair enough.
In the most populated states guns are a hassle to buy with gun regulation growing weaker in states with higher rural populations.

For the majority of the country though its currently a long process complete with background checks and a waiting period.

 

[Gus Money]

So you want certain guns banned?
Australia is surrounded by water and its government has excellent control over who and what enters/leaves...Terrible example, they do not have an unsecured border with a crime ridden country to the south of them. You are literally making the Illinois case for me. Where despite the toughest gun laws guns are still plentiful because they are brought in from the neighboring states.

Switzerland flys in the face of more guns = more mass shootings... and shows training and mental health checks at the state level are all that are needed.
Its our culture, specifically white supremacist that needs to be focused on, and addressed. The fact that all the shooters are white males should be the focal point, not gun regulation as cacs like Sanders are pushing.
Again shoutout to AOC for placing the focus squarely on crazy cacs.

Yes, certain guns should be banned from civilian ownership and the second amendment doesn't explicitly give people the right to own any kind of gun. That's part of the problem, the Supreme Court hasn't taken many second amendment cases to spell things out so there's no uniformity across state lines. Guns are brought in from neighboring states that have weak gun control laws, which goes back to what I already said about no uniformity.

Those are both excellent examples of taking steps and doing more than nothing. You can always find some difference between countries but the point is that Australia and Switzerland both took steps. They fukking tried. They're also good examples of federal regulations that created uniformity that we don't have in the US.

You can't boil it down to Switzerland just having more training and mental health checks. They've taken additional steps to regulate gun ownership, and it's worked. From that article I already posted:

Swiss authorities decide on a local level whether to give people gun permits. They also keep a log of everyone who owns a gun in their region, known as a canton, though hunting rifles and some semiautomatic long arms are exemptfrom the permit requirement.

But cantonal police don't take their duty dolling out gun licenses lightly. They might consult a psychiatristor talk with authorities in other cantons where a prospective gun buyer has lived before to vet the person.

Around the world, stronger gun laws have been linked to fewer gun deaths. That has been the case in Switzerland too.

After hundreds of years of letting local cantons determine gun rules, Switzerland passed its first federal regulationson guns in 1999, after the country's crime rate increased during the 1990s.

Since then, more provisions have been addedto keep the country on par with EU gun laws, and gun deaths, including suicides, have continued to drop.

As of 2015, the Swiss estimatedthat only about 11% of citizens kept their military-issued gun at home.

Those additional provisions are detailed here from the Library of Congress, and it includes the banning of automatic weapons:

Switzerland has a comprehensive gun-control regime that is governed by federal law and implemented by the cantons. This regime may be somewhat less restrictive than that of other European countries, yet since 2008 it has complied with European Union requirements. The Swiss Weapons Act requires an acquisition license for handguns and a carrying license for the carrying of any permitted firearm for defensive purposes. Exceptions exist for hunters. Automatic weapons are banned.

You seem to be stuck in this mindset of "there's no perfect solution so let's not do anything related to gun control" and that's a dangerous way to think, hence why we're in this position today. No policy is perfect, and perfection isn't the goal. The goal is to reduce deaths, and less guns (plus stronger gun laws I should add, I guess) = less mass shootings.

I'm glad you mentioned AOC again because she hasn't put the focus squarely on white supremacy:


There's more than one cause and there's more than one solution. It's more nuanced than just blaming white supremacy, as AOC understands, but I agree it plays a huge role. Just not the only role. And a solution can't just focus only on white supremacy when there are other options that we haven't even tried, despite other countries showing they can work.

Fair enough.
In the most populated states guns are a hassle to buy with gun regulation growing weaker in states with higher rural populations.

For the majority of the country though its currently a long process complete with background checks and a waiting period.

We must have different definitions of the word "hassle" because it doesn't seem difficult to get around the background checks and waiting periods. All you have to do is go to a gun show, which seems like a pretty huge loophole. Plus you said it yourself, guns are regularly brought across state lines.

 

[Loose]

Tougher background checks WILL NOT and WOULDNT HAVE PREVENTED 99% of mass shootings.
Either you are talking about throwing the 2nd in the bushes(infringing) or you are just looking for a feel good policy.



I'm holding white supremacy 100% accountable.
Their networks need to be shutdown, along with individuals spreading their message of hate.

White supremacy needs to be treated like a terroristic group we both know that wont happen

 

[Copy Ninja]

I'm pretty sure we'd still have higher death tolls from guns than anyone even without racism. This terrorism just makes it worse.

There are 40 homicides via handgun every 48 hours (word to Neil deGrasse Tyson)

Majority of those shootings are white on white and black on black Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

 

[Robbie3000]

@DEAD7 is a staunch supporter of Ron and Rand Paul.

So when he talks about addressing White Supremacy first, it’s just a distraction.

 

[DEAD7]

White supremacy needs to be treated like a terroristic group we both know that wont happen

 

[DEAD7]

@DEAD7 is a staunch supporter of Ron and Rand Paul.

So when he talks about addressing White Supremacy first, it’s just a distraction.

Ron.

Rand is total disappointment...

 

[AZBeauty]

Republicans are pretty clear on three issues, guns, religion and racism. They hold on to their base just off those 3 things alone. They have no policies that benefit the every day worker who is a Republican. They actually have policies that work directly against giving benefit to those workers and they still support Republicans because they care more about religion, guns and racism and that is how they keep a hold on their base. That will never change.

 

[Black Panther]

What happens in [insert other country/culture] isnt always applicable to America/American culture.

That's not a solid argument against gun control; there's no reason why we couldn't scale another country's gun policy to ours. :bpunimpressed:

What we need is a war on white supremacy

We have yet to see mass shootings in countries with a white hegemonic population and gun control (like Norway.) :bpunimpressed:

We have yet to see mass shootings in countries with white majority rule and gun control (like Australia.) :bpunimpressed:

What's your argument? :bpunimpressed:

 

[DEAD7]

That's not a solid argument against gun control; there's no reason why we couldn't scale another country's gun policy to ours. :bpunimpressed:



We have yet to see mass shootings in countries with a white hegemonic population and gun control (like Norway.) :bpunimpressed:

We have yet to see mass shootings in countries with white majority rule and gun control (like Australia.) :bpunimpressed:

What's your argument? :bpunimpressed:

The racial dichotomy and social challenges in America are unique...
Saying ‘they have white people too’ cuts no ice with me.

Moreover the proposed changes would not have and will not prevent the majority of these shooters from arming themselves.
Majority are law abiding apparently healthy individuals.
Are you suggesting a ban of some sort? Gus has already threw his support behind a ban on certain firearms. Are in the same boat?