Massive Unemployment Incoming

[LordOfTheManor]

It isn't fundamentally different, because today you can still move to other fields. Also mechanization put people in fields where they were outperformed and largely put them in fields where they still were outperformed but they put them in control or trained them how to use the machinary. Same principle in play here.

What you are talking about now isn't seriously challenging anything, there is literally no difference in what is happening now and what happened then. Same process occuring more advanced machinary.

Automated will hit underdeveloped countries, when it makes financial sense to do so. As long as its cheaper to hire more people and continue along the status quo than it is to make the switch, there is no monetary gain to make from making the switch. This applies for domestic producers and international producers that go to these countries, its a cost benefit trade off whether to make the jump

They can't move to other fields if that field is also affected. Previously you've said the busboy should just become a bricklayer, then I posted a video of a bricklaying machine, which is 3 times more effective than the fastest bricklayer. This makes me believe our disagreement stems from the fact that you don't see the extent of this change.

You're not addressing my point - if a machine works 3 times faster than an average worker, it's likely financially beneficial for a global product-based company to make that switch. More product is being made, faster

 

[David_TheMan]

They can't move to other fields if that field is also affected. Previously you've said the busboy should just become a bricklayer, then I posted a video of a bricklaying machine, which is 3 times more effective than the fastest bricklayer. This makes me believe our disagreement stems from the fact that you don't see the extent of this change.

You're not addressing my point - if a machine works 3 times faster than an average worker, it's likely financially beneficial for a global product-based company to make that switch.

There was never a time when they didn't move to a field that was affected by the shift in technological increases, so you are wrong.
Yeah I said a busboy could enter into a market in which needed low skilled labor and was not yet automated or he could develop marketable skills. I literally typed that out, I then said he could be a brick layer later on as an example, it isn't the only job he could do, this should be a given. I also mentioned plumbers, truck drivers, machinist, sonograph and radiology techs and more.

I've addressed your point, the fact is like I said, most of you all fear mongering are luddites, you ignore historical examples of a greater degree of transition to argue for doom and gloom, just like those before you, when history and economic principles show us that will not be the case and if anything this will lead to higher skilled jobs, lower cost of living, higher quality of living, and a even more productive economy.

You talk about global scale, yet ignore globally there is no need to automate if it doesn't make financial sense to do so, and that goes for multi national companies and domestic companies in the underdeveloped nations

So like I said before, get out of the mindset of change equals bad thihngs or technology removing people, it doesn't, it provides more opportunity to people to have higher skilled positions or transition to new markets created by the new tech. Which overall is always a good thing for the population of the world and various societies in it, as a whole.

 

[.r.]

Coal jobs.com

Black Lung Disease Is Making a Comeback
https://earther.com/black-lung-disease-is-making-a-comeback-1822799203

Here the up side!

Appalachia’s coal comeback collides with grim opioid reality

 

[NinoBrown]

Black Lung Disease Is Making a Comeback
https://earther.com/black-lung-disease-is-making-a-comeback-1822799203

Here the up side!

Appalachia’s coal comeback collides with grim opioid reality

Let the cacs snuff themselves out.

 

[Dzali OG]

@David_TheMan there are millions of people locked out of the workforce NOW before what's coming.

I see you're one of those, "Well I got mine, it's up to you to get yours. If you don't too bad, so sad". You talk as though those people who don't make it simply disappear. Like they're not the ones who commit crimes and become prison fodder, all while still having babies.

Something not being discussed...what happens when prisons expand their contracts with industries and our manufacturing, call centers, construction sites, maybe everything is manned by prisoners? I guess everyone else van compete to be co's or cops huh?

Hmmm...that would be a very effective society. People would be lined up to go to prison.

A prison society. If I was an elite it would be either that or mass extermination. Maybe that's the goal.

 

[LordOfTheManor]

There was never a time when they didn't move to a field that was affected by the shift in technological increases, so you are wrong.
Yeah I said a busboy could enter into a market in which needed low skilled labor and was not yet automated or he could develop marketable skills. I literally typed that out, I then said he could be a brick layer later on as an example, it isn't the only job he could do, this should be a given. I also mentioned plumbers, truck drivers, machinist, sonograph and radiology techs and more.

I've addressed your point, the fact is like I said, most of you all fear mongering are luddites, you ignore historical examples of a greater degree of transition to argue for doom and gloom, just like those before you, when history and economic principles show us that will not be the case and if anything this will lead to higher skilled jobs, lower cost of living, higher quality of living, and a even more productive economy.

You talk about global scale, yet ignore globally there is no need to automate if it doesn't make financial sense to do so, and that goes for multi national companies and domestic companies in the underdeveloped nations

So like I said before, get out of the mindset of change equals bad thihngs or technology removing people, it doesn't, it provides more opportunity to people to have higher skilled positions or transition to new markets created by the new tech. Which overall is always a good thing for the population of the world and various societies in it, as a whole.

I obviously understand you don't think bricklaying is the only job in the world.

Again, self-driving trucks: A Self-Driving Truck Might Deliver Your Next Refrigerator. Smart homes/ automated plumbing:

Sure, some fields aren't affected that much yet, but there's a limit to how many sonographers we need.

Point is, this is just the very beginning, so right now there are still human bricklayers but will there be in 30 years if they can't keep up?

It makes financial sense to switch to automated technology if machines produce more product than workers.

I'm not scared of new technology - I welcome it. I just think we need to think about all of those people worldwide who may not be able to adjust.

 

[David_TheMan]

@David_TheMan there are millions of people locked out of the workforce NOW before what's coming.

I see you're one of those, "Well I got mine, it's up to you to get yours. If you don't too bad, so sad". You talk as though those people who don't make it simply disappear. Like they're not the ones who commit crimes and become prison fodder, all while still having babies.

Something not being discussed...what happens when prisons expand their contracts with industries and our manufacturing, call centers, construction sites, maybe everything is manned by prisoners? I guess everyone else van compete to be co's or cops huh?

Hmmm...that would be a very effective society. People would be lined up to go to prison.

A prison society. If I was an elite it would be either that or mass extermination. Maybe that's the goal.

There aren't millions of people locked out the workforce now DUE to TECHNOLOGY, which is what this thread is about. Technological innovation.

I've literally said people with low skills have to develop marketable skills, thats simply a fact, the world and progress isn't going to wait because of luddite fear of technological advancement putting people out of work, which has been proven repeatedly as being false.

This thread isn't about prisons, its about technological innovation.

The US is a police state and houses the largest collection of prisoners per capita and absolute that has ever been recorded.
That said last year there were around 8 million Americans in prison/jail (state and federal) and on probation/parole.
The US population is 327 million people.
Thats 2% of the population.

We can recognize the police state without going into unsupported grand conspiracy.

 

[null]

There was never a time when they didn't move to a field that was affected by the shift in technological increases, so you are wrong.
Yeah I said a busboy could enter into a market in which needed low skilled labor and was not yet automated or he could develop marketable skills. I literally typed that out, I then said he could be a brick layer later on as an example, it isn't the only job he could do, this should be a given. I also mentioned plumbers, truck drivers, machinist, sonograph and radiology techs and more.

I've addressed your point, the fact is like I said, most of you all fear mongering are luddites, you ignore historical examples of a greater degree of transition to argue for doom and gloom, just like those before you, when history and economic principles show us that will not be the case and if anything this will lead to higher skilled jobs, lower cost of living, higher quality of living, and a even more productive economy.

You talk about global scale, yet ignore globally there is no need to automate if it doesn't make financial sense to do so, and that goes for multi national companies and domestic companies in the underdeveloped nations

So like I said before, get out of the mindset of change equals bad thihngs or technology removing people, it doesn't, it provides more opportunity to people to have higher skilled positions or transition to new markets created by the new tech. Which overall is always a good thing for the population of the world and various societies in it, as a whole.

Moving to other jobs is only possible in certain parts of the world and that set of countries is shrinking. Also we are not talking about machines to 'help' you do your job. We are taking about machines which in extremis do a large proportion of all of the jobs. Substitute immigration or outsourcing for automatization and you get an analagous effect. Outsourcing costs jobs in the West. Immigration creates downward pressure on wages. If moving simple tasks to 'others' and the resultant removal of these jobs from the available job pool can be simply countered by the creation of other jobs (in other areas) can you explain why immigration and outsourcing are having such negative effects and why new jobs are not being created to replace the ones which have become unavailable to the 'host' population?

Also,

1.

You are basing that on150 years of history in a few small parts of the world which gain much of their wealth from the rest of the world through fair and unfair advantage... You need to explain why we see what we see in the Western world (Europe, Canada) now. New (equally sound) jobs are NOT being created. The proof is both real (it has already happened) and abstract (mathematical - the effect of aggregation, automatization and productivity).

As the need for labor shrinks more of the profits flow to the owner class. As world GDP share flows to Asia, Western economies will lose much of this aforementioned advantage. And as a final point IQ is not elastic. As work flows up the value chain it (generally) becomes more difficult to do and an every increasing proportion of your population becomes unable to do it.

And

2.

 

[Deus]

And the unemployed masses won't even be able to chill at the mall.

The unemployed masses will be drawing blood. This won't happen peacefully.

 

[David_TheMan]

I obviously understand you don't think bricklaying is the only job in the world.

Again, self-driving trucks: A Self-Driving Truck Might Deliver Your Next Refrigerator. Smart homes/ automated plumbing:

Sure, some fields aren't affected that much yet, but there's a limit to how many sonographers we need.

Point is, this is just the very beginning, so right now there are still human bricklayers but will there be in 30 years if they can't keep up?

It makes financial sense to switch to automated technology if machines produce more product than workers.

I'm not scared of new technology - I welcome it. I just think we need to think about all of those people worldwide who may not be able to adjust.

This isn't the begining or the very beginning of anything and again technology expanding creates more human jobs and the ability for people to move into other areas to work where they can be more efficient or maybe in which effieciency isn't even the primary objective, and maybe an enlarging of artisan industries.

It doesn't make financial sense to switch to automation, if the cost to do so doesn't outweight the benefit of staying the same and either increasing human capital (hiring more workers). Again its not about cost benefit all the time with these decisions.

Obviously you are fearful of technology if you claim we have to think about other people who aren't leading the development or investing in the new technology.
Fact is technology and the development of technology owes nothing to anyone except the one pursuing it, and as a worker and a person, we adapt, we have an history of adapting and to think it won't happen is to show a complete ignorance of human history when blessed with the benefits of new technology.

 

[You Win Perfect]

This is just a small tidbit of total class warfare, reduction and automation of retail/service related jobs. As a kid, I knew those were dead-end jobs (as I saw older family working at jobs they hated and were still broke). I knew then, technology was the future and I began building, modding, programming computers in my teens. Much of the population doesn't share that type of drive, but the ones who do have undeniable skills and abilities to ensure they won't go hungry....ever.

I am in the tech field and look to make myself ingrained in the operations of any team I work with and update my skills as much as I can. However, I had to deal with and still deal with racism and cacs in the tech industry. So my next step is growing my Crytpo Currency portfolio and managing my other revenue streams.

The problem is COLA grew far beyond current wages and people are longing for the days of yesteryear where you could pay for college by working at McDonalds part-time. Perhaps have a house, car, couple of kids, and a summer vacation house from working at the car plant. Or more recently, get a no-money down mortgage when you only work at Wawa. That time is over and never coming back to the US.

The Endgame is indentured servitude via student loans which will be a form of population control. The Elites push the notion Blue Collar work is uncouth and White Collar (ie Joe College), is prestigious. Millions of students aren't financially saavy to understand the lifelong consequences of student debt, get a Liberal Arts degree, and end up working at Starbucks.Students then realize they are unable to pay the 70k or more in loans, they move back in with their parents, hold off on starting families and other adult milestones, and an entire American generation will end up like modern Japan with its low-birth rate crisis.

Retail jobs are already being phased out, but one must ask, do you want to work for the Gap, Target, Wal-Mart, Chuck-E-Cheese, etc for 15 or more years of your life ? Focus, drive, and determination are what's needed to succeed now since the barrier to a comfortable lifestyle is now more competitive.

Within a capitalist system such as ours, you can't save everyone. Look at Macy's, Blockbuster, Kay-Bee Toy Store, Radio Shack, K-Mart, Sears, as dying or dead entities that refused to change in a global economy.

thats real shyt.

but everyone doesn't want to be a doctor or a technology guy...and there's nothing wrong with that. Who's going to work at the local super markets or the farms when its time to get food? The engineers and the IT guys?
There's too much emphasis on SELF and getting MINE rather than working as a community with a plan; ok we need these people to do this this and this over here. We need the finance guys, we need the farmers/agriculture workers, the plumbers, the MILITARY, electricians, assembly line workers, engineers, doctors, lawyers, zoologists, teachers, daycare workers, the public service workers, etc.
When I say we i'm only taking about black people because we need to get away from the CAC reliance.

 

[Wild self]

Elon Musk advocated for BASIC INCOME cause these new jobs, simply wont be enough for people who are unemployed.

 

[David_TheMan]

Moving to other jobs is only possible in certain parts of the world and that set of countries is shrinking. Also we are not talking about machines to 'help' you do your job. We are taking about machines which in extremis do a large proportion of all of the jobs. Substitute immigration or outsourcing for automatization and you get an analagous effect. Outsourcing costs jobs in the West. Immigration creates downward pressure on wages. If moving simple tasks to 'others' and the resultant removal of these jobs from the available job pool can be simply countered by the creation of other jobs (in other areas) can you explain why immigration and outsourcing are having such negative effects and why new jobs are not being created to replace the ones which have become unavailable to the 'host' population?

No moving to other jobs isn't only possible in certain partso f the world, that is a lie. Unless you are talking about totalitarian nations where the government forces people to work specific jobs or kills/jails them. In that case the issue isn't jobs, its the totalitarian government in power.

I am clearly talking about automation and that includes full automation and partial. So if you didn't know that now you do.

Outsourcing costs low skilled jobs, but as shown to come with job increases domestically and increase in wealth and lower cost of living and higher standard of living in the west. Yes immigration does create downward pressure, why? Increase of supply with demand holding or dropping will see a lower pricing of the labor in question. This isn't unknown. Immigration and outsourcing don't have negative effects. Xenophobia and lack of economic education is the real issue, not immigration or outsourcing. We've seen immigration waves provide huge economic booms to the economy of the US historically and the same with outsourcing in the 80s. Seen the same fear of foreigners arrise during this time, enough to know what the real issue is.

Also,
1.

You are basing that on150 years of history in a few small parts of the world which gain much of their wealth from the rest of the world through fair and unfair advantage... You need to explain why we see what we see in the Western world (Europe, Canada) now. New (equally sound) jobs are NOT being created. The proof is both real (it has already happened) and abstract (mathematical - the effect of aggregation, automatization and productivity).

As the need for labor shrinks more of the profits flow to the owner class. As world GDP share flows to Asia, Western economies will lose much of this aforementioned advantage. And as a final point IQ is not elastic. As work flows up the value chain it (generally) becomes more difficult to do and an every increasing proportion of your population becomes unable to do it.

EDIT: elastic enough ...

Already been addressed. industrialization has been experienced over the whole world and created more economic opportunities and advancement for all. Jobs are being created in the Western world, to say they aren't is a lie.Post your abstract evidence of there being a mathmatical forumula for jobs not being created when the very effects of automatization requires the creation of jobs.

And

2.

[/quote]

A video that traffics in luddite fears isn't proof or evidence of anything.

 

[Wild self]

I don't think unemployment will be high as a result, I just think that different skills will be needed to be competitive

"Competitive wages and skills is just another codename for a WIDER WEALTH GAP. This society doesn't value worker union or worker rights anymore.

 

[Wild self]

This is just a small tidbit of total class warfare, reduction and automation of retail/service related jobs. As a kid, I knew those were dead-end jobs (as I saw older family working at jobs they hated and were still broke). I knew then, technology was the future and I began building, modding, programming computers in my teens. Much of the population doesn't share that type of drive, but the ones who do have undeniable skills and abilities to ensure they won't go hungry....ever.

I am in the tech field and look to make myself ingrained in the operations of any team I work with and update my skills as much as I can. However, I had to deal with and still deal with racism and cacs in the tech industry. So my next step is growing my Crytpo Currency portfolio and managing my other revenue streams.

The problem is COLA grew far beyond current wages and people are longing for the days of yesteryear where you could pay for college by working at McDonalds part-time. Perhaps have a house, car, couple of kids, and a summer vacation house from working at the car plant. Or more recently, get a no-money down mortgage when you only work at Wawa. That time is over and never coming back to the US.

The Endgame is indentured servitude via student loans which will be a form of population control. The Elites push the notion Blue Collar work is uncouth and White Collar (ie Joe College), is prestigious. Millions of students aren't financially saavy to understand the lifelong consequences of student debt, get a Liberal Arts degree, and end up working at Starbucks.Students then realize they are unable to pay the 70k or more in loans, they move back in with their parents, hold off on starting families and other adult milestones, and an entire American generation will end up like modern Japan with its low-birth rate crisis.

Retail jobs are already being phased out, but one must ask, do you want to work for the Gap, Target, Wal-Mart, Chuck-E-Cheese, etc for 15 or more years of your life ? Focus, drive, and determination are what's needed to succeed now since the barrier to a comfortable lifestyle is now more competitive.

Within a capitalist system such as ours, you can't save everyone. Look at Macy's, Blockbuster, Kay-Bee Toy Store, Radio Shack, K-Mart, Sears, as dying or dead entities that refused to change in a global economy.

W
We need basic income. enough of the rigid rules of being some super genius with the wage of a 70s factory worker to survive. We need a class revolution where wealth is distributed more fairly for the general population. Formal education teaches people to be selfish and inhumane.