Master P- MP Da Last Don Revisited
- Thread starter DaHNIC82
- Start date
A lot of this isn't exactly 100. No Limit had promo. They had entire spreads in The Source and television ads. A lot of bigger acts weren't getting looks like that. The whole independent thing is misleading because No Limit had major distribution through Priority. No Limit just had a unique set up to where they had a 75/25 deal where No Limit retained 75%. What made No Limit independent is that everything was in house. P was paying for the studio time, had his own lawyers for sample clearances, they had their own stylists, had a deal with Pen & Pixel for art work etc. They were even telling people what was going on. Mystikal said 90% is your business, 10% is your talent. Then went on to say "mixed, mastered, and marketed, somebody sell it". It didn't matter who thought they were wack ir who thought they were dope. If you liked one artist, chances are you were going to end up liking another because each No Limit album promoted multiple acts. It was built in marketing (genius IMO). All Priority had to do was sell it.
Oh ok breh.
Marlo Barksdale
Really out chea
Last Don didn't live up to the hype as a retirement album because people were expecting it to be better than Ghetto D
Snoops album wasn't received all that well by many who thought it was too No Limit (I liked it tho)
Mac's album was dope but didn't have any "hits"
Mystikal's 2nd NL album was a huge disappointment, especially after he went on that streak where he absolutely killed every single NL posse song.
Silkk and some albums did some numbers but NL definitely didn't reach the heights that they were predicted to after that huge 1997 mainstream breakout year. There's a certain feel that NL albums released pre-Ghetto D had and after it they kind of settled into "NL formula" mode cranking out whole albums in a week.
Wendy Day even said here that CMR got their deal in 1998 in part because during negotiations they were saying that NL was about to be on a decline & CMR was the new NL.
Now we may have enjoyed it, but looking back, a person could predict with their release schedule that they were going to burn out quick (remember nobody had ever released albums like that). That's not to say they didn't do sales on a few albums after Last Don, but that 1997 meda momentum had settled to pretty much gold status on their albums (which was still A1 for 99.9% of labels). But the burnout came and by early 1999 CMR was the new New Orleans mainstream media darlings. And that 1999 batch on NL albums couldn't compete with the 400 Degreez/Chopper City In The Ghetto/Guerrilla Warfare trifecta that CMR put out.
Snoops album wasn't received all that well by many who thought it was too No Limit (I liked it tho)
Mac's album was dope but didn't have any "hits"
Mystikal's 2nd NL album was a huge disappointment, especially after he went on that streak where he absolutely killed every single NL posse song.
Silkk and some albums did some numbers but NL definitely didn't reach the heights that they were predicted to after that huge 1997 mainstream breakout year. There's a certain feel that NL albums released pre-Ghetto D had and after it they kind of settled into "NL formula" mode cranking out whole albums in a week.
Wendy Day even said here that CMR got their deal in 1998 in part because during negotiations they were saying that NL was about to be on a decline & CMR was the new NL.
Now we may have enjoyed it, but looking back, a person could predict with their release schedule that they were going to burn out quick (remember nobody had ever released albums like that). That's not to say they didn't do sales on a few albums after Last Don, but that 1997 meda momentum had settled to pretty much gold status on their albums (which was still A1 for 99.9% of labels). But the burnout came and by early 1999 CMR was the new New Orleans mainstream media darlings. And that 1999 batch on NL albums couldn't compete with the 400 Degreez/Chopper City In The Ghetto/Guerrilla Warfare trifecta that CMR put out.
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She high key bodied damn near every feature she was on...not even gonna bring up her albums
Snap on stripper anthems brehettes
The New No LimitRemember when NL tried to ride Cash Money's flossin' wave?
"We roll tight whips....everydaaaay"
Marlo Barksdale
Really out chea
To be fair, Priority Records was actually an independent distributor. Tha Dogg Pound's Dogg Food album was distributed by Priority and was the first independently-distributed debut album to hit Billboard No. 1 (Mac Miller was the second to do this in 2011). No Limit had major promo tho cus those full-page Source spreads were the pinnacle of promo then.
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
people really in here making no limit's run shorter, and making cash money's longer.
I think some of yall are from the south, and were ahead of the masses.
cash money was not big in early '99 nationally. they didn't compete with no limit nationally or in the mainstream until the summer. then by the end of the year, they were bigger than no limit.
also, no limit in '98 was way bigger than no limit '97 on both a national & mainstream scale.
no limit was still huge in '99. they even did a national arena tour on their own that year - which is something cash money never did by themselves.
No Limit' s sales declined after Made Man (#1 Billboard, went platinum), and Bossalinie (#2 Billboard, gold) were another subpar disappointing albums from NL top acts (after MP, Snoop and Mystikal's weaker efforts in 98)
The only other NL album than Made Man (which was released in January) to go platinum in 99 was Snoop's NL Top Dogg (think it went double or triple), which didn't have that typical NL sound anyway
They were still popular, big in mainstream hiphop media now, but missing quality control (P being occupied with too much other shyt, too many albums at once leading to BBTP being burned out, then leaving mid-99 after a dispute between KLC and P) and the CMR rise led to their downfall
They had to regroup after Only God Can Judge Me (went gold only, after Da Last Don went 4x plat and Ghetto D went 3x plat), didn't release anything between October 99 and May 00 (504 Boyz, which was a good new start) under the NL name, but they did put out the infamous Cash Money diss album from Sporty T's Da Wild Boyz (incl NL acts like Young Gunz, Samm, Krazy appearing under different aliases) im between
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
I love it even more than I did back then
Marlo Barksdale
Really out chea
Nah 1997 No Limit busted out on the mainstream and were huge. Ice Cream Man &Tru 2 Da Game was a fie set-up but then the I'm Bout It movie and soundtrack along with Ghetto D completely made mainstream take notice.
Problem was they had the hype going into 1998 but the projects didn't deliver the big smashes that were expected. This includes the lackluster I Got The Hook-Up movie, which made a profit but it palled coming after I'm Bout It. Yeah they did some good numbers but not what they were expected to do. Da Last Don actually sold one million less copies but because it's a double album it counted twice. That's why you can't just go by numbers with the NL reign. Yeah they were one of, if not the, most profitable labels ever, but their was a definite drop in quality in 1998. They put out more volume but they put out weaker product; but that was offset by the brand loyalty that they had established. They were gonna do numbers but not what they really could have done looking back.
Cash Money was competing with NL in early 1999 because that's when "Ha" and CMR made it to MTV (March on 1999). I still have the VHS of Juvenile being on MTV Jams with Tyrese. Back in the day it was considerably easier to get burn on BET but you really "made it" if you got any play on MTV. For example, No Limit didn't get any play or airtime on MTV at all until "If I Could Change." The Universal machine made sure that "Ha" got play on MTV and wasn't stuck on BET like it normally would have. Universal was after marketshare and didn't expect to really make a profit on the CMR deal (you can read more about it in the book "The Big Payback").
Keep in mind I'm a No Limit fan but looking back you really see the mistakes they made in a cash-grab. Experiencing that shift in basically one school year from NL being on top to Cash Money taking over is one of the most amazing things and it really started with the Last Don album not living up to the expectations.
@Marlo Barksdale
Very good analysis, however I disagree that 98 was a big step down in quality. Now if you went with Da Last Don (as I said, what a dropoff in quality after Ghetto D), Snoop's debut (average) and most of the albums after that, I'd definitely agree
But the first half of 98 I disagree: Young Bleed, Silkk, C, IGTHUP OST, Fiend, Slim and a bit later on Mac and Kane&Abel were pure fire (plus Sons Of Funk and Skull Duggery albums were solid). Albums got weaker and weaker as the year went on, IMO the highly anticipated Mama Drama (with 2 small hit singles) and Ghetto Fabulous (with Busta and NBN features) were mediocre and mostly lacked the usual BBTP quality production. Then Made Man (brutal beats, Silkk at his worst), Bossalinie (some nice stuff outside the usual NL formula, but way too much filler), Foolish OST (totally forgettable) and Serv-On's sophomore album (BBTP at their worst) were even worse. Some may say otherwise tho
Very good analysis, however I disagree that 98 was a big step down in quality. Now if you went with Da Last Don (as I said, what a dropoff in quality after Ghetto D), Snoop's debut (average) and most of the albums after that, I'd definitely agree
But the first half of 98 I disagree: Young Bleed, Silkk, C, IGTHUP OST, Fiend, Slim and a bit later on Mac and Kane&Abel were pure fire (plus Sons Of Funk and Skull Duggery albums were solid). Albums got weaker and weaker as the year went on, IMO the highly anticipated Mama Drama (with 2 small hit singles) and Ghetto Fabulous (with Busta and NBN features) were mediocre and mostly lacked the usual BBTP quality production. Then Made Man (brutal beats, Silkk at his worst), Bossalinie (some nice stuff outside the usual NL formula, but way too much filler), Foolish OST (totally forgettable) and Serv-On's sophomore album (BBTP at their worst) were even worse. Some may say otherwise tho
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Marlo Barksdale
Really out chea
Yep the 1998 albums may have been good but they didn't get the proper rollout and promotion that they deserved to make a real impact. Most of those albums didn't even get even one properly pushed single. Sons Of Funk & Soulja Slim's albums are examples of ones that were just thrown out there. One of the pitfalls NL had was that they didn't have the BET & MTV pull for many of their projects so you never saw the video for most of the singles.
SIDENOTE: How do I mention somebody on here?
SIDENOTE: How do I mention somebody on here?
Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
as others have stated already, what were the flops of '99 before P's album at the end of the year?
they were releasing a lot of the lower-tier acts, which is something that they should be commended for actually.
the stuff that was expected to move units & chart high, did just that.
da crime family's sales may have been a lil disappointing, but they had the hits on there and the relevance.
yea, '97 was the setup & mainstream arrival. but the big mainstream run was really late '97 until late '99. ghetto d was the real takeoff. with "make em say ugh" being the out-the-park homerun solidifier in '98.
cash money was NOT competing with no limit in early '99. BREH. theres a reason why 400 degreez didn't take off like that until the summer, even tho it dropped in novemeber. sure it might've been a big deal down south, but overall, it was a slow-burn. that period was moreso the setup/arrival period for cash money. sure, universal made sure HA was on MTV but that was a "WTF slow-burn" record that took a while to catch on, and when it did catch on, it was a good gimmick or concept record. its not what sold the album. meanwhile, master p was basically a ghetto super-hero at the time.
"cash money is an army" is the song that started turning heads for the label, coupled with juvenile dropping a follow-up hit.
it was the string of summer hits that solidified cash money. back that thang up, bling bling, we on fire, and they had the video with Tear Da Club Up Thugs on the side. not only was that the homerun soidifier but it was the GRAND SLAM solidifier. then when they did the source awards, it as a wrap.
meh, cash money taking over really wasn't amazing.
1.) they were pawns for universal's corporate aqenda to close in on the more independent no limit's turf.
2.) we've seen this a thousand times over. rapper X blows up to the moon, and once the quality has already peaked, and while theyre making all these great moves......back home, rapper Y is blowing up and having a fresh run. back when mainstream rap was more grassroots/organic, as to now where they just force stuff on us, and keep them in rotation for 10 year cycles.
the shifts in the school year aren't surprising. back then, the 2nd half of the school year used to feel completely different than the beginning of that fiscal year.
and its not like we got to see prime cash money & prime no limit duke it out. and they definitely didn't have equal platforms. cash money was pushed to the moon via universal.
and breh, the fact that no limit dropped all those albums with no promo in '98, and they still sold, is like the main thing that no limit is legendary for. and while some of those albums could've been better, most of those artists did drop better works, imo.
snoop's no limit debut >>>> doggfather
so you cant say that's a dropoff.
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Homeboy Runny-Ray
From Around The Way
also, you can argue that the best '99 no limit albums were on par or better than the '98 joints, if we're talking quality.
mac & fiend's albums in '99 were better than their '98 joints.
the ghetto commission "wise guys" album was DOPE and nobody even mentioned it.
Tru's "da crime family" was arguably just as good as MP da last don.
mac & fiend's albums in '99 were better than their '98 joints.
the ghetto commission "wise guys" album was DOPE and nobody even mentioned it.
Tru's "da crime family" was arguably just as good as MP da last don.