Max Kellerman: Lebron is a better offensive player than Kevin Durant

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Lebron is a better scoorer too. Fact. Undisputable facts. literally 0 post with a single fact to state otherwise.

Embarrassing.

 

[Columbo]

Its crazy how much hate blinds some of these nikkas. I already stated i think Lebrons better, i dont think KD can carry a team like Lebron can

But i cant hate on anyone saying the snake, hes a great offensive player too. I can hate on nikkas acting like its crazy to say Bron is better, like KD is a far better offensive player then Lebron

Its like theres no in between with coli nikkas

Only option is be a stan or a hater brehs

 

[AlainLocke]

I hate to be the one to do this, but here we go:

he consistently goes out like a chump in big games. The only exception I found was game 5 of the 2012 finals where the starters besides KD shot 8-35 on the game. Take a look at this right here.


Heliflopter Har_en in the 2012 finals vs Miami: 12.4 points per game on a .375/.318/.792 shooting slash.

2013 quarterfinals vs Oklahoma City: 26.4 points on a .391/.341/.803 shooting slash while averaging 4.5 turnovers per game. He went 7-22 with 4 turnovers in game 6.

2014 quarterfinals vs Portland: 26.8 points on a .376/.296/.900 shooting slash. Called to switch off the ball on the final play where Dame got open for the buzzer beater. Was supposed to be his responsibility on the play.

2015 Western conference finals vs Golden State: 2-11 with 12 turnovers in game 5 vs the warriors. Read that again. More turnovers than shot attempts. This was also the same postseason the rockets made their big rally against the clippers with him on the bench.

2016 quarterfinals vs golden state: 26.6 points on a .410/.310/.844 shooting slash with 26 turnovers for an average of 6.5 turnovers per game.

Then there’s his 2017 performance where he got blocked from behind with the game on the line by 40 year old Manu and his game 6 performance, not to mention his vanishing act after halftime in games 6-7 of the western finals this year, including the way the rockets blew a 15 point lead in a game 7 on their own floor. Until he stops going out like this every postseason, what he does in the regular season doesn’t matter because it’s a sign of his game being fundamentally incompatible with the postseason.

What does this has to do with game

This is like how people used to say Carmelo is the better scorer than Lebron cause he got more moves although LeBron has been better at putting the ball in the bucket since idk 2006

Nobody else in the league generates points like Harden besides LeBron

If we were talking about late game or big game performance...that's different...

Even then...lol James Harden with the Rockets is dropping 27 a game on 57 true shooting percentage

 

[camer999]

Embarrassing.

Man all you can do is post. But there is nothing supporting KD. I wonder why

 

[Controversy]

Ppl only use stats & not the eye test

LBJ is the better driver & passer, sure

KD has better footwork, better handle, better mid-range, better long range, and more offensive moves in his arsenal

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

What does this has to do with game

This is like how people used to say Carmelo is the better scorer than Lebron cause he got more moves although LeBron has been better at putting the ball in the bucket since idk 2006

Nobody else in the league generates points like Harden besides LeBron

And what are you basing this on - the box score? Why do we need to keep going through re-runs of this shyt like y'all ain't hip to the nuances of the game, or shyt that's been blatantly staring at you every cotdamn season for the better part of a decade? I mean really, there's no reason why anyone who regularly watches the NBA should have this opinion, apart from those who've been picketing for Harden in vain -- and will continue on until the death.

If we were talking about late game or big game performance...that's different...

How is it different? Isn't the best measurement of someone's ability in a "big game" [playoff] circumstance? Or are you unintentionally admitting that you fell for the okey-doke....

 

[homiedontplaydat]

This has got to be the most hilarious take in the whole thread.

Lineups that LeBron has rode to the Finals:

Boobie-Sasha-Gooden-Z
Bibby-Wade-Bosh-Joel Anthony
Chalmers-Wade-Battier-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Bosh-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Rashard-Bosh
Delly-Shump-TT-Mosgov
Kyrie-JR-Love-TT
Hill-JR-Love-TT

6 different PGs, 4 different SGs, 6 different PFs, and 6 different centers, and NOTHING in common between them.

And that doesn't even count guys like Green, Korver, Jefferson, Turiaf, Hughes who started games in there too because the players available were so wack.



Lineups that Durant has rode to the Finals

Westbrook-Seflosha-Ibaka-Perkins
Curry-Klay-Draymond-Zaza
Curry-Klay-Looney-Draymond

Just a couple stacked lineups. And that's not even counting Harden and Iggy as super-subs good enough to basically be a 6th starter.


So if LeBron needs the "right pieces" to be effective, then why has he been effective with such a variety of lineups? And why has Durant only been effective with stacked teams?

Bron ain't win s

This has got to be the most hilarious take in the whole thread.

Lineups that LeBron has rode to the Finals:

Boobie-Sasha-Gooden-Z
Bibby-Wade-Bosh-Joel Anthony
Chalmers-Wade-Battier-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Bosh-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Rashard-Bosh
Delly-Shump-TT-Mosgov
Kyrie-JR-Love-TT
Hill-JR-Love-TT

6 different PGs, 4 different SGs, 6 different PFs, and 6 different centers, and NOTHING in common between them.

And that doesn't even count guys like Green, Korver, Jefferson, Turiaf, Hughes who started games in there too because the players available were so wack.



Lineups that Durant has rode to the Finals

Westbrook-Seflosha-Ibaka-Perkins
Curry-Klay-Draymond-Zaza
Curry-Klay-Looney-Draymond

Just a couple stacked lineups. And that's not even counting Harden and Iggy as super-subs good enough to basically be a 6th starter.


So if LeBron needs the "right pieces" to be effective, then why has he been effective with such a variety of lineups? And why has Durant only been effective with stacked teams?

Bron ain't win shyt until he got those "pieces" he so desperately needs.

Bron Ball basically consists of Bron dominating the ball and controlling the offense. The team will consist of spot up shooters(one of which will be an all star player who will sacrifice their game to stand in the corner). You'll then have the secondary scorer who can get their own shot.

The way it works is Bron will basically try to get his own shot until he can't and then he will dump it off to the help(sometimes this works because of how the defense collapses on Lebron, sometimes Bron uses it to bail himself out of a bad shot).

When Bron goes to the bench the secondary scorer takes over yet the offense doesn't run the same because the help is so used to standing in the corner waiting for Bron to make a decision for them(Ball movement is not apart of Bron Ball)

When the game is on the line Bron has that secondary scorer to take over when he gets scared, or to take the blame when they lose.

Wash rinse repeat

KD doesn't have to dominate the ball like that. He can move off the ball and also take over and iso when they need him to. Golden States system was not compromised by KD, they really didn't have to change how they play at all. Replace Bron with KD and Golden State would've had to change their whole play style to fit him in.

KD is way more plug and play than Bron will ever be, that's because Bron can only play one way.

 

[South Paw]

hes right, you know

 

[camer999]

Ppl only use stats & not the eye test

LBJ is the better driver & passer, sure

KD has better footwork, better handle, better mid-range, better long range, and more offensive moves in his arsenal

If one person can do something a couple different ways and achieve the same if not better results than the person doing it 10 different ways do you really care?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

If one person can do something a couple different ways and achieve the same if not better results than the person doing it 10 different ways do you really care?

You should care.

 

[ELESDEE616]

Bron ain't win s

Bron ain't win shyt until he got those "pieces" he so desperately needs.

Bron Ball basically consists of Bron dominating the ball and controlling the offense. The team will consist of spot up shooters(one of which will be an all star player who will sacrifice their game to stand in the corner). You'll then have the secondary scorer who can get their own shot.

The way it works is Bron will basically try to get his own shot until he can't and then he will dump it off to the help(sometimes this works because of how the defense collapses on Lebron, sometimes Bron uses it to bail himself out of a bad shot).

When Bron goes to the bench the secondary scorer takes over yet the offense doesn't run the same because the help is so used to standing in the corner waiting for Bron to make a decision for them(Ball movement is not apart of Bron Ball)

When the game is on the line Bron has that secondary scorer to take over when he gets scared, or to take the blame when they lose.

Wash rinse repeat

KD doesn't have to dominate the ball like that. He can move off the ball and also take over and iso when they need him to. Golden States system was not compromised by KD, they really didn't have to change how they play at all. Replace Bron with KD and Golden State would've had to change their whole play style to fit him in.

KD is way more plug and play than Bron will ever be, that's because Bron can only play one way.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Bron ain't win s

Bron ain't win shyt until he got those "pieces" he so desperately needs.

What "pieces" does LeBron desperately need to win a title that aren't necessary for every other title team too? You named a secondary scorer and a couple shooters. EVERY team needs a secondary scorer and a couple shooters, so what kind of sense does that make?

Bron Ball basically consists of Bron dominating the ball and controlling the offense. The team will consist of spot up shooters(one of which will be an all star player who will sacrifice their game to stand in the corner). You'll then have the secondary scorer who can get their own shot.

Bullshyt. That doesn't explain the Miami offense in 2012-2014 at all. You seem completely ignorant of what offense Miami was actually running in that period:

The Evolution of King James

LeBron got to the Finals in 2012 with a lineup that only had 1-2 spotup shooters on the floor at any time, Chalmers and Battier/Miller. And there was no bullshyt "all-star player who sacrificed his game to stand in the corner." Bosh only made 10 corner threes in the entire 2012 season, regular season and postseason combined. Wade, not to be outdone, only made TWO corner threes the entire season. The only all-star who has regularly hit corner threes for a LeBron team in his entire 15-year career has been Kevin Love, and that's because Love is inefficient everywhere else on the floor. And even Love makes less than 1 corner three a game (though he shoots 40% from three in the corner, so he should be there).

And LeBron had no elite secondary scorer who could get his own shot in 2007, 2015, or 2018, yet he still made it to the Finals all three of those years. Plug-and-play indeed.

The way it works is Bron will basically try to get his own shot until he can't and then he will dump it off to the help(sometimes this works because of how the defense collapses on Lebron, sometimes Bron uses it to bail himself out of a bad shot).

The way you describe it suggests a terrible, inefficient offense. Yet LeBron has run some of the most efficient offenses of all-time. So either you're full of crap, or LeBron is a brilliant player who can run a crap system so well that he still gets tremendous results.

When Bron goes to the bench the secondary scorer takes over yet the offense doesn't run the same because the help is so used to standing in the corner waiting for Bron to make a decision for them(Ball movement is not apart of Bron Ball)

You do realize that only 2 players can be in the corners at any one time, right? The idea that professional NBA ballplayers completely forget how to play basketball just because they happen to be on the same team as LeBron is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Wade, Bosh, and Kyrie all had the most efficient seasons of their careers playing with LeBron. They were getting the BEST shots of their career playing with him, and you're talking like they forgot how to play. The only "great" player whose offense declined with LeBron was Love, and that was simply because he was exposed have to produce at an efficient rate against tough defenses instead of stat-padding for a crap team.

When the game is on the line Bron has that secondary scorer to take over when he gets scared, or to take the blame when they lose.

The idea that the player who has the NBA records for playoff scoring, elimination game scoring, Game 7 scoring, playoff game-winners, playoff buzzer-beaters, and who has led the NBA in clutch points more often than anyone else in the last 20 years actually "gets scared" when the game is on the line is another one of the dumbest narratives out there.

KD doesn't have to dominate the ball like that. He can move off the ball and also take over and iso when they need him to. Golden States system was not compromised by KD, they really didn't have to change how they play at all. Replace Bron with KD and Golden State would've had to change their whole play style to fit him in.

KD is way more plug and play than Bron will ever be, that's because Bron can only play one way.

Funny how if KD is so great and a plug-and-play guy, why did Curry, Klay, and Draymond all shoot WORSE the year that Durant joined the team? Klay's shooting has recovered, Curry's and Draymond's are still well below their 2016 numbers. And why did Golden State win FEWER games each year with KD than they had in 2016 when Harrison Barnes was in Durant's place? You would think that KD would be a massive improvement, right? Your evidence for "plug and play" doesn't sound that solid.

Meanwhile, LeBron plugged himself into all of these lineups:

Boobie-Sasha-Gooden-Z
Bibby-Wade-Bosh-Joel Anthony
Chalmers-Wade-Battier-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Bosh-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Rashard-Bosh
Delly-Shump-TT-Mosgov
Kyrie-JR-Love-TT
Hill-JR-Love-TT

And made it to the Finals with every one. Lineups where the secondary scorer was Boobie or Delly or Love. Lineups where 2-3 guys who couldn't hit threes were on the court at all times. Lineups with players who couldn't hit a shot outside of the restricted zone. He made it work with all of them. Durant has only made it work when his lineup was completely stacked.

 

[Sccit]

MAX KELLERMAN IS A BIG LEBRON GROUPIE.......HE'S MORE SUBTLE THAN NICK WRIGHT AND SHANNON SHARPE, BUT HE'S STILL A DICCRIDER REGARDLESS.

I HAVEN'T READ THROUGH THE THREAD, BUT I'M SURE THERES HELLA LEBRON GROUPIES IN THIS BIITCH ARGUING THAT HE'S RIGHT.

I PRAY TO GOD THAT WE FIND A SCORER ALA KYRIE FOR OUR TEAM SO LEBRON DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE FIRST OPTION ON OFFENSE.

 

[Sccit]

What "pieces" does LeBron desperately need to win a title that aren't necessary for every other title team too? You named a secondary scorer and a couple shooters. EVERY team needs a secondary scorer and a couple shooters, so what kind of sense does that make?




Bullshyt. That doesn't explain the Miami offense in 2012-2014 at all. You seem completely ignorant of what offense Miami was actually running in that period:

The Evolution of King James

LeBron got to the Finals in 2012 with a lineup that only had 1-2 spotup shooters on the floor at any time, Chalmers and Battier/Miller. And there was no bullshyt "all-star player who sacrificed his game to stand in the corner." Bosh only made 10 corner threes in the entire 2012 season, regular season and postseason combined. Wade, not to be outdone, only made TWO corner threes the entire season. The only all-star who has regularly hit corner threes for a LeBron team in his entire 15-year career has been Kevin Love, and that's because Love is inefficient everywhere else on the floor. And even Love makes less than 1 corner three a game (though he shoots 40% from three in the corner, so he should be there).

And LeBron had no elite secondary scorer who could get his own shot in 2007, 2015, or 2018, yet he still made it to the Finals all three of those years. Plug-and-play indeed.




The way you describe it suggests a terrible, inefficient offense. Yet LeBron has run some of the most efficient offenses of all-time. So either you're full of crap, or LeBron is a brilliant player who can run a crap system so well that he still gets tremendous results.




You do realize that only 2 players can be in the corners at any one time, right? The idea that professional NBA ballplayers completely forget how to play basketball just because they happen to be on the same team as LeBron is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Wade, Bosh, and Kyrie all had the most efficient seasons of their careers playing with LeBron. They were getting the BEST shots of their career playing with him, and you're talking like they forgot how to play. The only "great" player whose offense declined with LeBron was Love, and that was simply because he was exposed have to produce at an efficient rate against tough defenses instead of stat-padding for a crap team.




The idea that the player who has the NBA records for playoff scoring, elimination game scoring, Game 7 scoring, playoff game-winners, playoff buzzer-beaters, and who has led the NBA in clutch points more often than anyone else in the last 20 years actually "gets scared" when the game is on the line is another one of the dumbest narratives out there.




Funny how if KD is so great and a plug-and-play guy, why did Curry, Klay, and Draymond all shoot WORSE the year that Durant joined the team? Klay's shooting has recovered, Curry's and Draymond's are still well below their 2016 numbers. And why did Golden State win FEWER games each year with KD than they had in 2016 when Harrison Barnes was in Durant's place? You would think that KD would be a massive improvement, right? Your evidence for "plug and play" doesn't sound that solid.

Meanwhile, LeBron plugged himself into all of these lineups:

Boobie-Sasha-Gooden-Z
Bibby-Wade-Bosh-Joel Anthony
Chalmers-Wade-Battier-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Bosh-Haslem
Chalmers-Wade-Rashard-Bosh
Delly-Shump-TT-Mosgov
Kyrie-JR-Love-TT
Hill-JR-Love-TT

And made it to the Finals with every one. Lineups where the secondary scorer was Boobie or Delly or Love. Lineups where 2-3 guys who couldn't hit threes were on the court at all times. Lineups with players who couldn't hit a shot outside of the restricted zone. He made it work with all of them. Durant has only made it work when his lineup was completely stacked.

THIS GUY DESERVES TO GET HIT BY A CAR DRIVEN BY LEBRON.

 

[camer999]

You should care.

Why?