Men should be allowed to legally opt out of being a parent
- Thread starter winb83
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thegreatest
Pro
, and I'm about to tell you why. What OP is saying is that women have more decision-making power than men, while men are the ones who have to be responsible for those choices. You understand that.
The problem with what you're saying is in the bolded. Why should women have more power? They want equal rights and they can very well have them - but not more rights than us. If they want to live in a society where the sexes have equal opportunities and power, it is hypocritical to disagree with our viewpoint. This is why it's unfair.
Now this is where you really made me go
. The current order of society is not based on biology. In fact, American society is very far from the natural order of things. Biologically, men are programmed to fukk a lot and move on to the next. Why else do you think they do it? Out of spite?
Women, on the other hand, are supposed to make good partner choices and not let irresponsible sexual partners impregnate them. But since women are so liberated now, they let dudes smash raw and then bounce, but are not willing to face the consequences. Regardless of whether you want equality in society or for men to do the natural thing from a biological perspective, there is no reason for men to pay child support for 18 years when they have no say in whether the baby is made or not.
The only true thing you said in your whole post is that it's better for the community if men are forced to be responsible for their kids. It would also be better for the community if I gave up all my disposable income as tax money, but nobody's arguing for that - i.e. your viewpoint can only seem valid to someone who thinks that tradition is a good indicator of a concept's validity (it isn't).
How is bringing a child to term = owning up to a mistake? A lot of the time, this is the irresponsible choice. If your baby daddy doesn't wanna be in the kid's life, your dumb ass should deal with your choice to carry the baby to full term.
In conclusion, take your cape off and stop
Good argument, certainly better than previous ones presented in this thread.
My argument is not circular as I provide a premise and a conclusion.
1)women get to decide whether they want to keep or abort after conception regardless of what the man wants.
2)why can't men have that same step in the decision process on whether or not they want to father a child that they have no say in deciding to bring into the world?
You've answered the question. Your argument is that letting men run around having kids that they don't have to take care of makes no sense from a biological or community standpoint. Why doesn't it make sense? You answered the question without actually answering it.
However, we still are avoiding scenario 2, which you actually mentioned which is when she wants to abort and he doesn't. Is your argument pro-life or pro-choice for the woman? If your argument is pro-life then you also believe in limiting her choices after conception as well. If your argument is pro-choice then you believe that she can have an abortion, even after the man has assessed the risk, understood the consequences, had sex unprotected, and was prepared for the outcome of having a baby.
Not quite sure why you would label her irresponsible if she decides to abort? It sounds like you are pro-life which means that you are not for woman having choices. Hope you can clarify your stance for me.
The OP's argument is about having a choice after conception. It seems that you're implying that his only choice is whether to have protected or unprotected sex, and if he has unprotected sex then he consents to having a baby, whereas if she has unprotected sex, she only consents to the risk of pregnancy. So the action of unprotected sex has different consequences for the man and the woman.
I would have argued that there are more health risks posed to women whether she decides to keep or abort the baby and this is the reason that she solely makes the decision after conception. However, this still doesn't explain why the man doesn't have a choice on whether he wants to be a father once she informs him that she is pregnant.
You mentioned society, but society has not and is not attempting to make fathers accountable for their kids other than financially. This is why the community angle you introduced is flawed. These women will still be single mothers and likely to be in poverty.
The OP wants to know why can't the father have a choice on whether or not he wants to accept his parental responsibilities. Nobody has pointed out that he does have a choice, just not from a financial perspective. People were pushing their own moral ideologies instead of what is factual. This is why most of these arguments were torn to shreds.
Your best bet is just to effectively explain why financial support is important and should be mandatory for the father. This is the strongest argument you and your supporters have. Everything else is easily disputed based on facts and current practices and falls apart under certain litmus tests.
tremonthustler1
aka bx_representer
Exactly. The purpose of having sex in theory is to procreate. The benefit of sex is bustin a nut. The downsides are disease and/or actually procreating. If those two possibilities are not creeping into your head before you fukk, that becomes your problem and there, is where you have power that leads to responsibility and accountability.
That's not an issue if you're involved with the child's life. Being promiscuous isn't even that big of a deal in society. Not being involved in the child's life because you didn't want to be a dad and somehow not expecting consequences for that, yeah that's a problem.
The woman's the one carrying the child. She's doing the heavy lifting for your future seed. It's not as if the man can volunteer to do that for the woman. Inherently the female's going to always have that as a trump card and have "final say" so to speak. Until you see pregnant men running around, that's just how it is (and I hope to never see that. Being pregnant looks like a pain in the ass). When a woman aborts, there's no longer a child to parent. When a man decides to dip out, the child is stuck
Sierra Mist
Banned
I agree. Society keeps trying to evolve and be more liberal which is fine but people always want to change the standards disproportionately. People want more liberation with less responsibility. More power without accountability. It's just like the women who want the power to vote and the power to make as much money as men, and say they are equal to men 100% but then say in another context that women shouldn't have to fight in the wars, that men should still pay for dates and that men should be chivalrous.
What OP is saying is that women have more decision-making power than men, while men are the ones who have to be responsible for those choices. You understand that.
The problem with what you're saying is in the bolded. Why should women have more power? They want equal rights and they can very well have them - but not more rights than us. If they want to live in a society where the sexes have equal opportunities and power, it is hypocritical to disagree with our viewpoint. This is why it's unfair.
Now this is where you really made me go
The current order of society is not based on biology. In fact, American society is very far from the natural order of things. Biologically, men are programmed to fukk a lot and move on to the next. Why else do you think they do it? Out of spite?
Women, on the other hand, are supposed to make good partner choices and not let irresponsible sexual partners impregnate them. But since women are so liberated now, they let dudes smash raw and then bounce, but are not willing to face the consequences. Regardless of whether you want equality in society or for men to do the natural thing from a biological perspective, there is no reason for men to pay child support for 18 years when they have no say in whether the baby is made or not.
The only true thing you said in your whole post is that it's better for the community if men are forced to be responsible for their kids. It would also be better for the community if I gave up all my disposable income as tax money, but nobody's arguing for that - i.e. your viewpoint can only seem valid to someone who thinks that tradition is a good indicator of a concept's validity (it isn't).
How is bringing a child to term = owning up to a mistake? A lot of the time, this is the irresponsible choice. If your baby daddy doesn't wanna be in the kid's life, your dumb ass should deal with your choice to carry the baby to full term.
In conclusion, take your cape off and stop
"All the traditional things men did for us women like protecting us, feeding us, providing for us, and handling all the responsibilities of society is great! All the traditional things men did that didn't benefit us women however are archaic and need to be thrown away! We want to be seen as equal to men, but keep all of our historical privileges and cushiness."
This whole concept of wanting to have your cake and eating it too really irks me. You can't have all the power, all of the perks and privileges and at the same time want zero accountability and responsibility. That's the main component that everyone consistently continues to overlook.
Society needs to be balanced with power and accountability. Civilizations have been built off of that since the dawn of time. What people are trying to do is knock down the pillars that they don't like and only keep the pillars that they do like. It doesn't work... especially when you don't replace the pillars after knocking them down. When you knock down the pillars of a super structure it will collapse, no matter how well built it is.
Absolute liberation corrupts absolutely.
Confession guy
Rookie
This whole post is truth, especially the bolded point 
This is the exact reason why the black community is where it is currently.
nikkas just like to assume say "He should raise his kids, but just because he should that doesn't mean he will.
You'd be better off by taking preventative measures to protect yourself so that you don't face that situation in the first place. And lets be real the nikkas that's out here knocking chicks up left and right aren't of the greatest moralatity and character otherwise they wouldn't have been fornicating and having unprotected sex in the first place so what makes you think he's gonna step up and be a father figure
That responsibility wasn't in that nikka in the first place.And as you said none of these men have a shortage of women to choose from. As they seem to be the most desireable in our community. Which further alludes to the idea that there really are only 20% of men that's fukking 100% of the women out here.
Women complain about the double standard that men can fukk alotta girls and not be considered a ho but they can't.
Last time I checked I didn't see women knocking down male virgin's doors, so this double standard will continue to exist until male whores are given the same stigma as female whores.. Women are the reason this double standard manifests itself in our society.
Dirty_Jerz
Ethiop
if a want to have a child and the mother doesnt and chooses abortion she should have to pay 18 years worth of a fine for irresponsibility 
as a society we enable women to behave irresponsibly. a woman knows if she gets pregnant she's got shyt to fall back on.
like i said i know a chick that's both jobless and homeless right now and crashing with friends and is pregnant. she's decided to keep the baby. do you know why? because she has nothing but if she has this baby she can get government aid and child support. the system we have now almost encourages a girl like that to have a baby.
i've heard other women grumble about how easy it would be for them to get government aid if they had kids. some of them i know are practicing irresponsible sex practices and want to get pregnant.
maybe just maybe if you give the man a pass and tighten up the government aid system we can cut down on these irresponsible pregnancies and babies being born to people who have no business having them.
you act as if once an unplanned pregnancy occurs the woman has to "step up" or "own up to the mistake" no she decides to do that. this isn't a man running around creating kids as much because the woman decides to bring that baby into this world. this is a decision she gets to make entirely on her own and regardless of her ability to take care of and provide for that child. you're making the next deduction that because that woman makes a decision to bring that baby into this world she should have the right to decide to make the man a father or have an obligation to that baby as well.
if the woman gets to choose the fate of motherhood and knows that in the back of her mind if i choose that fate society will force him to provide me with some assistance that fact alone affects the decision.
a woman should have to choose her own fate and not the fate of the man as well. i don't give a shyt if she carries the baby for 9 months. are you gonna compare that to having to work and provide for something you didn't want for 18 years of life? and if the baby has health issues it could be longer than 18 years. if you live to be 60 that's almost a quarter of your life tied up in obligations. if she chooses that 18 years of obligation then let her but don't let her choose 18 years of obligation for another person.
a child is not entitled to a father unless the mother so decides. a child can be born and the mother leaves the father's name off the birth certificate an child can be born to a woman from artificial insemination from a random sperm donor. a child can be born to a lesbian couple using a sperm donor even. so if a child having a father in its life is the mother's arbitrary decision why should that child feel entitled to one?
and if you're the father (or mother) and you decided to skip out on the child, the child should have the legal right to beat the living shyt out of you when he /she sees you as they get older. The child should get something out of his pops skipping out on you, right?
i'd like to propose a third way a child can have a mother decide to raise him with no father. a mother gets pregnant by a man that has no intention of being a father and decides to bring that baby to term regardless of what he said. if that father is not there for the child the mother should get the beatdown from the grown child for who she selected to father her child.
what you talking about is basically like your woman cheating on you and you wanna beat the dude she's fukking down. you check your woman not that dude cause you woman let him fukk.
for all intents and purposes 100% of the responsibility is placed on the male. men are expected to police women from bringing children into this world they can't provide for. at the same time if an unplanned pregnancy occurs the woman holds 100% of the decision making power. beyond that society will assist her if she can't provide for her own child and will force him to assist her as well.
unplanned pregnancies happen a lot. for a variety of reasons. if you place all the burden of responsibility to prevent them on a side that has no decision making power once one occurs and enable the other side to do whatever they want regardless of ability or circumstance. you've created a broken system with one side having token responsibility and the other side being almost encouraged to behave irresponsibly.
YaThreadFloppedB!
The Patron Saint of Threads
tremonthustler1
aka bx_representer
Based on everything you just said, you just figured out the kind of woman you need to find in order to not need to be a father. Good luck finding one of those. All you're finding is a woman who is completely down with you not being in the child's life.
If you're the father of the child and the mother wanted to leave your name off that list, get that paternity test done. Whether she wants you to be the dad or not, that test will let you know whether you are regardless.
A child should have a father. There's a lot of women that love to be the "mommy and daddy" but most of the time the father's role just gets transferred to some other random guy.
If you have no intention of being a father, think about this before you fukk. It has to be in the back of your mind. It's like putting a warning label on a women's forehead saying Beware: product may get pregnant. I'm sure people who smoke cigarettes don't have any intention of getting lung cancer, but that's a consequence to smoking. Either considerably cut back or don't do it all (and it's even worse with smoking because you don't even need to smoke to get lung cancer)
No because you can always leave the woman and unless you have kids, there's nothing even keeping you guys from knowing each other. That kid is your kid for life, and if you're moving on and living your life all comfy while he's missing a huge component of his life, the child beating your ass one day seems like reasonable compensation.
Dirk Diggler
Pro
Im tired of responding Im mad this thread is 16 pages on default....