Men should be allowed to legally opt out of being a parent

[winb83]

This is all I needed to know. Seems like every dude on this side of the argument loves the idea of exercising their will on someone's body when it impedes their responsibilities, but no one is willing to let someone exercise their will on them for the benefit of their responsibility.

Like I said, convienient.

you are the only one talking about a man exercising his will on a woman's body.

everybody on this side of the argument is talking about granting the man a freedom to choose whether or not to be a father independent of a woman's right to her body.

if a man chooses to walk away and a woman chooses to have the child and go at it alone who exercised a right over anybody else s' body?

 

[filial_piety]

nikka, I don't care, because I have no problem eatig the consequences of my actions.

Under your ideal (an idea i dont agree with, an idea you think is just and right) everyone should have complete control over everyone else's body.

I present your ideal back to you, you don't want it, and I'm magically the one who is wrong?

Truthfully, I didn't even read your whole response. I skimmed from the bottom, saw that you made a hypocritical statement that flawed your argument and went with it. ?

Dude, just own up to the fact that you CAN'T counter it. There is no flaw "nikka." You responses, haphazardly fall into the "control over someone else's body" whenever you can't own up to your own examples. After is one is cut down, you prop up the Joker card

I think I had it right the first time. I am absolutely sure you nikkaz hold onto this simpsided, lopsided "balance" because many of you yourselves are the byproduct of nikkaz skipping out on your moms. Saying otherwise would go against everything that your own mothers taught you. And nikkaz know that that aint happening

 

[DaChampIsHere]

you are the only one talking about a man exercising his will on a woman's body.

everybody on this side of the argument is talking about granting the man a freedom to choose whether or not to be a father independent of a woman's right to her body.

if a man chooses to walk away and a woman chooses to have the child and go at it alone who exercised a right over anybody else s' body?

So the basis of your argument doesnt lie in not being able to have a say in childbirth? Ok, ive said that before.

If it doesn't lie there, where else does it come from besides not wanting responsibility for a child if it's not a response to a woman's right?

Dude, just own up to the fact that you CAN'T counter it. There is no flaw "nikka." You responses, haphazardly fall into the "control over someone else's body" whenver you can't own up to your own examples. After is one is cut down, you prop up the Joker card

nikka. I'm on a phone. I seriously did not read your whole response, or anyone else's for that matter. Lol.

I saw the quickest flaw and went with it. Men should ask women to absolve their responsibility for their actions, if women were to ask, their are being illogical. Tubes are untie-able by the way smart guy. I ask again, ?

 

[marcuz]

Under your ideal (an idea i dont agree with, an idea you think is just and right) everyone should have complete control over everyone else's body.
?

you keep saying this, but who actually said anything about how complete control (or any control) over someone elses body. please quote them, because i don't believe anyone is actually saying that.


although we all notice the hypocrisy in what you're saying. seeing as women have complete control over the unborn lives they harbor.

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

This is all I needed to know. Seems like every dude on this side of the argument loves the idea of exercising their will on someone's body when it impedes their responsibilities, but no one is willing to let someone exercise their will on them for the benefit of their responsibility.

Like I said, convienient.

------------------
Sharp, why play a game you don't like the rules of? Play another game. What's so hard to understand about this?

And again, if you want to change those rules on the stance that people should have a say in their responsibilities while disregarding their choices/actions, are you also letting women tell you whether to get vasectomies or not?

Your cape is a little too tight there.
outside of conservative republicans trying to roll back womens reproductive rights, who here is telling women what to do with their own bodies? We're telling them we're doing with our own reproductive rights, which we currently do not have. Men have no reproductive rights whatsoever, the question is should they be granted rights. Last time I checked women don't reproduce by parthinogenesis. Which tells me that men do play an important role in the reproductive process.

 

[marcuz]

dachampishere would make a good republican foxnews pundit. he's moderately decent at taking things completely out of context and running with it for miles.

 

[marcuz]

Your cape is a little too tight there.
outside of conservative republicans trying to roll back womens reproductive rights, who here is telling women what to do with their own bodies? We're telling them we're doing with our own reproductive rights, which we currently do not have. Men have no reproductive rights whatsoever, the question is should they be granted rights. Last time I checked women don't reproduce by parthinogenesis.

[dachampishere] well keep your dikk in your pants [dachampishere]

 

[DaChampIsHere]

you keep saying this, but who actually said anything about how complete control (or any control) over someone elses body. please quote them, because i don't believe anyone is actually saying that.


although we all notice the hypocrisy in what you're saying. seeing as women have complete control over the unborn lives they harbor.

How come everyone is saying that the basis of their argument doesn't lie in a woman's choice, but then can't name where all of this comes from?

 

[Sharp]

------------------
Sharp, why play a game you don't like the rules of? Play another game. What's so hard to understand about this?

And again, if you want to change those rules on the stance that people should have a say in their responsibilities while disregarding their choices/actions, are you also letting women tell you whether to get vasectomies or not?

Why can't the rules be challenged? Simply put, in order to uphold this argument you simply have to explain why are these rules put in place. It is not sufficient enough to say that the rules are there so abide by them.

If rules were never challenged, alcohol would still be illegal [21st amendment], smoking would still be legal on airplanes, buses, etc., abortion would still be illegal [Roe v Wade], and the use of contraceptives would be still illegal [Griswold vs Connecticut]. All of these things were accomplished via challenging the status quo, so the question remains... why are you defending the status quo? This simple answer could potentially end this whole argument in your favor.

For your second part. you're stating that if we feel justified in allowing men to opt out of taking parental responsibility for their children, these women should also be allowed to tell us to have vasectomies. This is equivalent to us enforcing at will to women that they should have their tubes tied. The OP has never attempted to take the decision process away from the women. The OP is championing for men to have their own choice regardless of what the women chooses to do with her body.

A more specific question is "Why is it that the women can prevent the man from absolving his parental responsibilities, but at the same time can allow him to absolve his parental responsibilities if she wanted to?"

1) woman says that she is pregnant
2) man says that he does not want to have a baby
3) woman says that it is her body, her choice and decides to have baby
4) man understands that it is her body and wants to relinquish his rights as a dad
5) woman is fine with that and either does not put the man as the father on the birth certificate or allows him to sign over all of his parental rights.

A woman has this option.

SOmething to think about it.

 

[winb83]

So the basis of your argument doesnt lie in not being able to have a say in childbirth? Ok, ive said that before.

If it doesn't lie there, where else does it come from besides not wanting responsibility for a child if it's not a response to a woman's right?

so what if he doesn't want the responsibility if you give her the choice to choose to accept that responsibility or decline it why shouldn't he get an equivalent choice?

you speak of responsibility but in the opposite scenario if a man wants the child and a woman doesn't do you place the responsibility on her to carry his child to delivery then be a mother to that child? no. its almost as if there's an underlying tone that women are irresponsible or that its ok for a woman to be irresponsible or duck responsibility but a man should always step up to it.

 

[PartyHeart]

This entire thread is based on circular reasoning. The idea that men and women should have the same amount of reproductive choices and at the same stages in reproduction is a fallacy in itself. OP is basically saying women have more opportunities to make a choice than men. This is true. The problem lies in the overall assumption that it shouldn't be that way. I and many people understand that it should. Maybe the OP and some of his supporters can give reasoning as to why men should have as many choice as women other than just continuing to point out the fact that she has more and he doesn't and say its unfair.

Based on biology itself, women should have more choice than male after conception. The reason why society forces men who father children to take care of them is because the entire point of society is to keep order for the betterment of the entire population. Letting men run around and create kids and not take care of them makes no sense biologically or from a community standpoint. Why anyone would be in support of this is beyond me.

Its not even like y'all are talking about abortion (when she wants to abort and he doesn't) so the undertone can't be that women are irresponsible. If she is actually owning up to a mistake that she made by bringing the child to term and taking care of it, she is acting responsibly. The only person who is acting irresponsibly is the person who y'all are defending, who is the dude who made a mistake and now wants legal right to jump ship and not have any responsibility to help take care of the child.

 

[tremonthustler1]

Based on biology itself, women should have more choice than male after conception. The reason why society forces men who father children to take care of them is because the entire point of society is to keep order for the betterment of the entire population. Letting men run around and create kids and not take care of them makes no sense biologically or from a community standpoint. Why anyone would be in support of this is beyond me.

and if you're the father (or mother) and you decided to skip out on the child, the child should have the legal right to beat the living shyt out of you when he /she sees you as they get older. The child should get something out of his pops skipping out on you, right?

 

[Tom]

I personally feel like most black people (more specifically poor people, and lets be honest we're at the bottom wealth wise) should just stop having kids and focus on bettering themselves instead of bringing another generation into a fukked up situation




I'm not an advocate of eugenics but I feel like if ur in a messed up situation then you need to be wise enough not to intentionally make that situation worse by creating a child aka another burden for yourself

 

[Dooby]

I personally feel like most black people (more specifically poor people, and lets be honest we're at the bottom wealth wise) should just stop having kids and focus on better themselves instead of bringing another generation into a fukked up situation

We are not.

 

[Sierra Mist]

This entire thread is based on circular reasoning. The idea that men and women should have the same amount of reproductive choices and at the same stages in reproduction is a fallacy in itself. OP is basically saying women have more opportunities to make a choice than men. This is true. The problem lies in the overall assumption that it shouldn't be that way. I and many people understand that it should. Maybe the OP and some of his supporters can give reasoning as to why men should have as many choice as women other than just continuing to point out the fact that she has more and he doesn't and say its unfair.

Based on biology itself, women should have more choice than male after conception. The reason why society forces men who father children to take care of them is because the entire point of society is to keep order for the betterment of the entire population. Letting men run around and create kids and not take care of them makes no sense biologically or from a community standpoint. Why anyone would be in support of this is beyond me.

Its not even like y'all are talking about abortion (when she wants to abort and he doesn't) so the undertone can't be that women are irresponsible. If she is actually owning up to a mistake that she made by bringing the child to term and taking care of it, she is acting responsibly. The only person who is acting irresponsibly is the person who y'all are defending, who is the dude who made a mistake and now wants legal right to jump ship and not have any responsibility to help take care of the child.

If you admit to having more choice then accept the outcome of your choices. It's really that simple. Responsibility in this context doesn't mean "raise the kids". It means to accept the consequences of the choices you made. If you're complaining about the outcome of what you chose to do then that's not being accountable. Plus women are all liberated and can do anything a man can do right??? It's "equal" now right? Oh I forgot. It's only equal when convenient.

It's really funny you bring up biology. Biologically men are supposed to sleep around with as many women as possible. The purpose of procreation is genetic diversity. If you have a planet with 2 women and 20 men the population on that planet will die off. On the other hand if you have a planet with 2 men and 20 women the population can continue to grow. Again there are no moral courts. There is no law that says a man has to be present in the child's life or raise the child. Yeah men having kids with random women is bad. It's just too bad that men being promiscuous is seen as attractive by women and they would rather share the same promiscuous man than choose a man who is faithful. I won't even go in that direction.

You said it yourself. Women have more say so and more power. With that power comes responsibility. If a woman chooses to have an abortion that's on her. It's just funny that only women have the right to refuse to be a parent but men don't. shyt women can even adopt their children WHEN THE MAN STILL WANTS TO RAISE THE KIDS... Now let a man try to adopt his kids when the woman wants to keep them. Exactly.

What you choose to do is on you. All I'm saying is you can't fight for the power to do something and then place all the responsibility of what goes down on your terms on the person who has no power, choice, or say so in the matter.

I'm gonna give you props though because what you are saying has merit society wise. The issue is society and biology at one point matched but now a lot of definitions of what are considered "right" and "wrong" have changed and biology and society no longer correlate as well with each other. Standards change. Biology doesn't. But what also shouldn't change is that you can't have power without responsibility.