MICHAEL JORDAN SAYS IT AGAIN .. "KOBE > LEBRON..5 BEATS 3"

[Rollo Goodlove]

You forgot to mention, half the 80's players were coke heads and alcoholics. I don't like to shyt on either era, but to say the 80's were better than the 90's is asinine. All you have to do is look at the majority of the record books.....the holder of the record came from a 90's era player. The 90's is where skill met athleticism.

That means nothing in the preceding era if the top players are spread out to 28 teams

 

[Kings County]

His prime was never on the level of MJ Kareem ,LBJ, Shaq

Hes not a once in a lifetime dominant player like those guys

facts

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

Jordan is using the ring argument because that's the only thing that keeps him as the "goat"

It's cool cause more and more people are starting to see past that and realize how weak 90's basketball was and they know his competition in the finals was lackluster.


3 finals mvps > 2 finals mvps

By Jordans logic 11 > 6.

Bill Russell is the Goat.

 

[Black_Panther_JS]

a declining wade and chris bosh....go ahead and pull his stats up against the spurs in 2013

and no, kobe and shaq were NOT equal in any way. shaqs presence on both ends is why there dominant. you could replace kobe with any number of wings and they wouldve still won titles, but the only player you could replace shaq with and possibly win was duncan.

lebron > kobe

You could replace Bron with a lot of dudes so what's your point and that statement was false anyway

 

[Black_Panther_JS]

What finals he ate in? Dude is a sub par finals player over his career
2009 was prolly his best and he still shot43%

2004,2000,2008 ,2010 he wss garbage

01, 02 is what I was mainly talkin about

 

[IllmaticDelta]

5 out of 7

Vs

3 out of 8.. With 2 finals wins coming by the way of luck

kobe only has 2 titles as the man

he only has 1 reg season mvp

lebron has 4

.
.
.
Kobe is top 10-15 player all time wile Lebron is already top 5



kobe 10 by cbs----lebron 2

CBS Sports' 50 greatest NBA players of all time: Where do LeBron, Curry rank?

Kobe 12 by sports illustrated------Lebron 4 (before his 3rd title)

SI's 50 greatest players in NBA history

Kobe 12 by espn-------Lebron 3 (after his 3rd title)

All-Time #NBArank: Where does Kobe belong?

Kobe 12 by fox sports-----lebron # 2 (after his 3rd title)

Ranking the 25 greatest players in NBA history


Why Kobe Bryant is not a top-10 all-time player

Pelton: Kobe not a top-10 player of all time

Kevin Pelton analyzes Kobe Bryant's all-time #NBARank. Become an Insider today to read the full story

With Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant announcing his retirement from basketball at the end of the 2015-16 season, attention now turns to Bryant's legacy.

Just five months remain in Kobe's career, so this seems like a good time to ask about where he ranks among the all-time greats. In particular, is he one of the 10 best to play the game?

A close reading of the facts suggests the answer is no. As remarkable as his career has been, Bryant's résumé can't quite compare to that of the league's inner-circle Hall of Famers.

Win shares: Kobe ranks No. 15

Win shares, found at Basketball Reference, are our most complete historic NBA metric. They give us a way to compare players across NBA eras.

Although full box-score stats did not become available until 1977-78, when the league started tracking player turnovers, Basketball Reference estimates turnovers and other stats that were not recorded at the time (including steals and blocks before 1973-74) to come up with approximations for player value throughout league history.

Bryant is currently 15th among NBA players in career win shares (172.5), with an outside chance of surpassing Reggie Miller (174.4) by the end of the season, if he improves his level of play. Because he has started so poorly, Bryant has actually lost 0.6 win shares from his career total so far this season.

Expected championships added: Kobe ranks No. 20

As Miller's high ranking suggests, the problem with using win shares as a historic measuring stick is they tend to reward longevity over quality of play. To better reflect the impact players had on their teams, I've developed a model that relates their win shares each season to a typical team's chances of winning a championship.

This model shows value is exponential rather than linear. For instance, a season with 15 win shares (such as Bryant's 2005-06 campaign) is nearly three times as valuable as one with 10 win shares (such as his 2010-11).

A preliminary version of this model shows Bryant 20th all time in expected championships added (ECA), just behind Larry Bird and ahead of the late Moses Malone.

Why Kobe doesn't rate as well by advanced stats

Bryant comes out slightly worse by this method because of his lack of truly elite statistical seasons. Bryant's best season in terms of win shares, 2005-06, ranks 102nd in NBA history behind, for example, Stephen Curry's 2014-15 campaign.

That's fairly consistent with what other advanced metrics indicate. Bryant's 2005-06 performance did rank 56th all-time in PER, but his best season by my wins above replacement player statistic (2002-03, with 20.4 WAR) ranks 72nd, dating back to 1977-78.

ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM) is even harsher. Because of the need for detailed play-by-play data, RPM is available only since 2000-01, but in that span, Bryant's best rating (plus-6.3 points per 100 possessions in 2007-08) ranks 80th in that span.

These all-in-one metrics are universally picking up that by the standards of all-time great scorers, Bryant was relatively inefficient. Bryant's best season in terms of true shooting percentage (.580 in 2006-07) would rank seventh in Michael Jordan's career, seventh in LeBron James' and behind five of Kevin Durant's seven full seasons.

Since Bryant wasn't an exceptional rebounder or distributor and has never rated especially well statistically as a defender, he would need to be better than his peers as a scorer to provide more value than they did. That was only the case in Bryant's very best seasons.

The verdict

Naturally, the arguments in favor of Bryant's greatness are likely to revolve around the five championships the Lakers won during his career. While it's a bad idea to credit team success to one individual, it is true that Bryant's postseason performance is a point in his favor.

He ranks eighth in career playoff win shares. Factoring in playoff value surely lifts Bryant's all-time rank from 20th, but it's harder to make the case that he should jump all the way into the top 10.

It's not just advanced statistics that are down on Bryant's best seasons. He won only one MVP award, which puts him behind the 12 players (including former Lakers teammate Steve Nash) who won the league's highest honor multiple times.

Although there's a case to be made that Bryant should have won in 2005-06, when he set an NBA record for usage rate and carried a limited Lakers team to the playoffs, Bryant benefited from something of a "lifetime achievement" factor in 2007-08, when he beat Kevin Garnett and Chris Paul for the award.

In terms of the share of MVP votes accumulated over the course of his career, Bryant ranks 11th.

Considering all those factors, I'd ultimately rank Bryant somewhere around the 15th-best player in NBA history. You might move him a few spots in either direction, depending how you value playoff performance versus regular-season success, peak value versus longevity and the league's quality of play over time.

But when it comes to cracking the 10 best NBA players ever, Bryant didn't quite accomplish enough in a career that now has a finish line in sight.

Offical Espn Insider Thread

 

[10bandz]

....ok
lol kobe never been the best player in the league
EVER!
THAT shyt GON FOREVER HURT YOUR HEART

ROBERT HORRY WON KOBE 3 DAMN RINGS
WHY DIDNT KOBE TAKE THE LAST SHOT?

 

[Sccit]

....ok
lol kobe never been the best player in the league
EVER!
THAT shyt GON FOREVER HURT YOUR HEART

ROBERT HORRY WON KOBE 3 DAMN RINGS
WHY DIDNT KOBE TAKE THE LAST SHOT?

EMBARRASS YOURSELF WITH NO SHAME BRODIES

 

[Sccit]

When was Kobe ever the undisputed best player in the league?

From 99-04 he wasn't even the best player on his own team.

'05 he missed the playoffs.

'06-'07 were the only years where you could argue he was the best, but even then he was leading sub 40 win teams and getting bounced in the first round. So you could argue Duncan was better.

His one and only MVP was in 2008 and that was a courtesy lifetime achievement award that should've gone to Chris Paul.

From '09 til now it's Lebron undisputed.

He's never led the league in PER. Never shot 47% for a season. His calling card is that he's supposed to be some great scorer yet he only has 2 scoring titles.

LOL THIS GUY TRIED TO SAY CHRIS PAUL WAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE IN HIS PRIME

LMFAO

KOBE BEEN THE BEST FOR HIS ENTIRE PRIME .. 01-10 NO ONE WAS BETTER.

BUT CARRY ON WIT THE MENTAL GYMNASTICS.

 

[Sccit]

I expect that response from a Kobe groupie such as yourself. You're a groupie so your opinion isn't taken seriously.

U THE ONE WHO SAID UR NOT A BRON SLURPER, YET U IN EVERY THREAD CAPIN FOR HIM LIKE HES YOUR DADDY

FALL BACK

 

[Sccit]

His prime was never on the level of MJ Kareem ,LBJ, Shaq

Hes not a once in a lifetime dominant player like those guys

UR ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS THAT HE DIDNT WIN ALL HIS TITLES AS THE MAN

THEN U NAME KAREEM

HOLD ANOTHER L FAM

 

[SunZoo]

Kobe & Bird >>>>> Bron.

 

[Sccit]

a declining wade and chris bosh....go ahead and pull his stats up against the spurs in 2013

and no, kobe and shaq were NOT equal in any way. shaqs presence on both ends is why there dominant. you could replace kobe with any number of wings and they wouldve still won titles, but the only player you could replace shaq with and possibly win was duncan.

lebron > kobe

ANOTHER RETARDED NARRATIVE

IT TOOK SOME INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCES BY KOBE IN THE PLAYOFFS TO BARELY EDGE OUT KINGS AND BLAZERS IN 7 GAMES.... IT WASNT LIKE THEY WAS RUNNIN THROUGH EVERY1

SO NO, IF U REPLACE KOBE WIT ANYONE ELSE IN THE NBA, THEY DONT WIN THOSE RINGS.

KOBE WAS HANDS DOWN THE BETTER PLAYER IN THE MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE WESTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS THEM YEARS

SIT DOWN

 

[Sccit]

2011 finals the only one where his team was the favorite

SAYS A WHOLE LOT ABOUT HIS ALLEGED GREATNESS

 

[Bryan Danielson]

11>6 then




Martha