Microsoft Hardware sales are struggling according to Forbes

MeachTheMonster

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You keep saying that you are posting examples. Yet you are trying to discredit Forbes, saying people don't take them seriously.....and that USAToday has REAL writers, and the very same publication that you posted at the very beginning is SH!TTING on that real writer.

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/michael_wolff_on_digital_media.php?page=all
That's two writers disagreeing on a subject. Both are in the industry and both have access to inside information. That happens all the time.

They both agree that Forbes is full of shyt, and the "contributors" are nothing more than bloggers.




Real writers eh? So does that somehow bring USA Today down a notch. I mean to your credit you've found more scathing articles in regards to Forbes but I feel that this has to hurt your argument.
Which is all your trying to do. Doesn't matter what I post you will try to discredit it to save face. If you can search for a article to discredit me, but you can't do a simple search to see how much respect Forbes doesn't get.

And yes, I DO believe that a recipe for fukkery. But I need to see it happening. If it's that easy to see and we believe they are doing that then it should be easy to prove. But I'm not even questioning whether I think Forbes does that. Hell, I wouldn't need an article to tell me that is the case. I know ALL online publications do that. Some may do it more than others or may just not be as good at it as others. That doesn't mean that I discredit anything written by an online publication. If the proof is in the puddin then show me the puddin.
You have the puddin. The article in the OP is based around the authors baseless speculation. He hasn't talked to anybody, he doesn't have any insider info, just his flawed opinion that doesn't make logical sense. According to NPD D1 has sold over 300k units in the us in the last two months alone, but this guy is claiming they sold less than that worldwide for the entire quarter. Beyond any talks about Forbes or console wars that shyt makes absolutely no logical sense. If you actually cared about accuracy of the information out little back and forth wouldn't have even gone this far. The article in the OP is stupid even if you know NOTHING about the subject.


And while you have posted articles relating to Forbes diminished brand, you haven't posted articles showing where they have said one thing and have been consistently balked at by others in response. Keep in mind that I am aware that they have erred in some way at some point. I find it hard to believe any publication could NEVER get anything wrong. But I'm speaking in regards to a consistent reputation of being wrong and discredited.

That's exactly what I posted. You chose to ignore it.
 

The Phoenix

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That's two writers disagreeing on a subject. Both are in the industry and both have access to inside information. That happens all the time.

They both agree that Forbes is full of shyt, and the "contributors" are nothing more than bloggers.





Which is all your trying to do. Doesn't matter what I post you will try to discredit it to save face. If you can search for a article to discredit me, but you can't do a simple search to see how much respect Forbes doesn't get.


You have the puddin. The article in the OP is based around the authors baseless speculation. He hasn't talked to anybody, he doesn't have any insider info, just his flawed opinion that doesn't make logical sense. According to NPD D1 has sold over 300k units in the us in the last two months alone, but this guy is claiming they sold less than that worldwide for the entire quarter. Beyond any talks about Forbes or console wars that shyt makes absolutely no logical sense. If you actually cared about accuracy of the information out little back and forth wouldn't have even gone this far. The article in the OP is stupid even if you know NOTHING about the subject.




That's exactly what I posted. You chose to ignore it.
No, it's not just two writers disagreeing. It's pointing out hat the guy you posted up to prove your point is doing the exact same thing you accuse Forbes of doing.

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/michael_wolffs_high_cynicism.php

Even more interesting how New York Magazine describes the man

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/michael-wolff-hates-restaurants-loves-attention.html

Just because you say it doesn't make it true. You THINK that you are posting articles that are in counter to Forbes consistent fact based misappropriations when in fact you are posting articles that are shytting on Forbes for the way they choose to run their business. That's not the same thing. I have no doubt based on your articles Forbes has taken some hits. There are some out there that don't respect them and disagree with their methodology. Hey, tough for Forbes. But you aren't able to prove that they are without merit. There isn't a consistent release of baseless articles being doled out. I mean, you are claiming that they've fallen off and that people don't respect them. Then there should be an article written by one of those people chronicling that very fall. Because I have to believe if the case was there to be made, some other publication would make it. Whether it was out of journalistic integrity or the fact that they would get the chance they were looking for to sh!t on Forbes. I have to believe that that would have been the FIRST article you posted.
 

MeachTheMonster

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No, it's not just two writers disagreeing. It's pointing out hat the guy you posted up to prove your point is doing the exact same thing you accuse Forbes of doing.

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/michael_wolffs_high_cynicism.php

Even more interesting how New York Magazine describes the man

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/michael-wolff-hates-restaurants-loves-attention.html

Just because you say it doesn't make it true. You THINK that you are posting articles that are in counter to Forbes consistent fact based misappropriations when in fact you are posting articles that are shytting on Forbes for the way they choose to run their business. That's not the same thing. I have no doubt based on your articles Forbes has taken some hits. There are some out there that don't respect them and disagree with their methodology. Hey, tough for Forbes. But you aren't able to prove that they are without merit. There isn't a consistent release of baseless articles being doled out. I mean, you are claiming that they've fallen off and that people don't respect them. Then there should be an article written by one of those people chronicling that very fall. Because I have to believe if the case was there to be made, some other publication would make it. Whether it was out of journalistic integrity or the fact that they would get the chance they were looking for to sh!t on Forbes. I have to believe that that would have been the FIRST article you posted.

So if in your eyes CJR saying something bad about mike wolf, discredits him, and they had this to say about Forbes.

oh no, it was a Forbes! Did Forbes used to be good? We vaguely remember them being good once. Anyway, yes it’s pure nonsense

Then why do you believe Forbes still holds credibility. The point you are trying to make contradicts itself
 

The Phoenix

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So if in your eyes CJR saying something bad about mike wolf, discredits him, and they had this to say about Forbes.



Then why do you believe Forbes still holds credibility. The point you are trying to make contradicts itself
I'm only using them because YOU used them first. I'm simply making the point that someone shytting on the publication or its author doesn't prove that those people or publications are without merit. Instead you have to have consistent chronicling of their demise. There should be a sense of finality when it is done. Not ambiguity which is what we are left with when discussing Forbes. Apparent shady business practices, and people who talk shyt about them doesn't mean that A. They don't have editors, or that B. their "Contributors" are shyt. It also doesn't mean that the brand is shyt. It means that they have made a business decision that SOME industry people have a problem with. I've been asking in response to that then, "If it is a problem, show it to me." And not just "Hey take a look at this article.....you see how they were wrong.....checkmate". No. Thats not enough simply because, as I stated, I'm sure every site out there gets things wrong, and probably a number of times in the span of a year. But instead some sort of consistent outline of where they were at "Point A", here they are at "Point B" and this is how they got there......which lets you know everything you need to know about "Point B". I mean if Forbes is truly what you say it is, that outline....that chronicling would have to exist. Why would all those people pass on the chance to write that article about Forbes? They haven't hesitated to take pot shots here and there in the past. Why would they hesitate to write the knockout blow? Or at least a haymaker? I just can't see it.
 

ORDER_66

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I don't know whats going on but are you really trying to have a intelligent conversation with meech :wow:

I learned that lesson a long time ago when i first got here... :mjlol:

tumblr_mz5myhFDal1t0g649o1_500.gif


&

meh.ro4764.jpg
 

The Phoenix

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I don't know whats going on but are you really trying to have a intelligent conversation with meech :wow:
Nah....I think dude is worth the time. A lot of people in here try to act like he is off his rocker but he spits truth a good portion of the time. I just don't agree with him in this instance.
 

MeachTheMonster

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I'm only using them because YOU used them first. I'm simply making the point that someone shytting on the publication or its author doesn't prove that those people or publications are without merit. Instead you have to have consistent chronicling of their demise. There should be a sense of finality when it is done. Not ambiguity which is what we are left with when discussing Forbes. Apparent shady business practices, and people who talk shyt about them doesn't mean that A. They don't have editors, or that B. their "Contributors" are shyt. It also doesn't mean that the brand is shyt. It means that they have made a business decision that SOME industry people have a problem with. I've been asking in response to that then, "If it is a problem, show it to me." And not just "Hey take a look at this article.....you see how they were wrong.....checkmate". No. Thats not enough simply because, as I stated, I'm sure every site out there gets things wrong, and probably a number of times in the span of a year. But instead some sort of consistent outline of where they were at "Point A", here they are at "Point B" and this is how they got there......which lets you know everything you need to know about "Point B". I mean if Forbes is truly what you say it is, that outline....that chronicling would have to exist. Why would all those people pass on the chance to write that article about Forbes? They haven't hesitated to take pot shots here and there in the past. Why would they hesitate to write the knockout blow? Or at least a haymaker? I just can't see it.

nikka I've posted 3 articles from respected publications about Forbes. There's also this

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/...-of-contributed-content-means-for-journalism/

There is no traditional editing of contributors’ copy, at least not prior to publishing. If a story gets hot or makes the homepage, a producer will “check it more carefully,” DVorkin said

This
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2012/12/12/its-in-the-title-sex-lies-and-flamebait/

Each time I take a look at games journalism I end up attacking a specific games media outlet, but today I’ll take a look at a place that should really know better – Forbes. Everyone is familiar Forbes, a huge, well respected print publication that also publishes on Forbes.com, the 287th largest website in the world. Apparently, the site that has the slogan “Information for the World’s Business Leaders” also likes to do a bit of games coverage, such as “6 Reasons To Buy An Xbox 360 Instead Of A PlayStation 3” or… “6 Reasons To Buy A PlayStation 3 Instead Of An Xbox 360“. Wait, what?

In each case, the title is created to stir up a bit of a fuss and, especially with the Forbes name attached, that’s exactly what each article did – even though they offered contradicting statements from the same author. In the case of the 360 being better post, a commenter called the article ‘link-bait’, to which the writer replied:

Link-bait? No. It’s meta-commentary, and it requires that you read to the end.

At the end, he had written:

All that being said, I think the “console wars” are silly. This piece is a companion piece to my earlier post “6 Reasons To Buy A PlayStation 3 Instead of an Xbox 360.” It’s not that I’ve changed my mind. Truth be told, there’s many reasons to buy either one of these consoles. They both have many wonderful qualities and many shortcomings.

The number one reason to go with either the PS3 or Xbox 360 is the exclusive titles, and that really boils down to a matter of taste. There are many great exclusives on both systems, but gamers will never agree on which are the best.

First off Erik, that’s not meta-commentary. You wrote an entire article with a flamebait article simply because your last one did really well. And, why is this little comment shoved at the bottom where you know most people won’t read it? Is it because it basically says ‘this whole thing is an opinion, all opinions are relative, and therefore this entire article is utterly pointless’? And, if that conclusion is what separates meta-commentary from link-bait, what does that make your pro-PS3 article that didn’t have a similar conclusion?

It’s not just games journalism, the same can be said for a Forbes contributor piece titled “Why Apple is Great and Everyone Else Is Not Even Close“. I don’t even need to point out how utterly painfully one-sided and intentionally provocative that title is. Oh, and I’m not even going to mention that the writer of said piece owns shares in Apple… a fact that was only brought to light by a commenter, rather than being prominently mentioned at the top like it should be.

Of course, these are Forbes contributors. According to Forbes, ‘the opinions expressed are those of the writer’, and a line is drawn between them and full on staffers. But that’s wrong, people clearly see the Forbes name and not the fine print and are influenced by what they see as Forbes’ content. And, even if they see the fine print, it’s a bit misleading. These guys (and gals) are essentially freelance Forbes writers:

We are strengthening our staff of full-time editors and reporters and carefully selecting hundreds of qualified contributors. In fact, we now have 440 contributors, both paid and unpaid. Every single one was hand picked by those who can best evaluate their knowledge — our own editors and reporters.

Some great handpicking right there, I’m sure. But why on Earth would these writers want to write such obvious sensationalist articles?

It’s a simple deal: there is a flat monthly fee, a bonus for hitting certain unique visitor targets, and a fee per unique user after bonus targets are achieved. For paid contributors, the arrangement requires a certain number of posts per month and a specified level of audience engagement through our commenting system.

This


The problem in the end for Forbes, I believe, is that the brand became even more devalued. I illustrate this very simply: Now, when I see a link to Forbes on Twitter, I don’t know whether it is going to take me to (1) the good work of a Forbes journalists, (2) the good work of a Forbes contributor, (3) the bad work of one of many Forbes contributors, or (4) the paid and wordy shilling of a Forbes advertiser, e.g.:

[Forbes] Korea's Entrepreneurs Garner Global Validation As Local 'Startup' Valuations Soar Into The Billions http://t.co/azshQ00GSZ

— BN3WS (@BN3WS) July 18, 2014

Thus, I hesitate three beats before clicking on a Forbes link. That is the definition of a devalued media brand. And that is precisely what other media companies should fear as they more and more try to fool their readers into thinking that what we used to call advertising is now something else that can comfortably live under brands, enigmatically labeled.[/quote]

And this


http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/23/media-climate-change-warming-opinions-contributors-larry-bell.html

A Forbes contributed denying global warming. And you keep asking me what happened to their credibility :heh:

And there's plenty more where that came from, but I'm sure you'll just come up with more BS to deny it.​
 

The Phoenix

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nikka I've posted 3 articles from respected publications about Forbes. There's also this

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/...-of-contributed-content-means-for-journalism/



This
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2012/12/12/its-in-the-title-sex-lies-and-flamebait/



This

The problem in the end for Forbes, I believe, is that the brand became even more devalued. I illustrate this very simply: Now, when I see a link to Forbes on Twitter, I don’t know whether it is going to take me to (1) the good work of a Forbes journalists, (2) the good work of a Forbes contributor, (3) the bad work of one of many Forbes contributors, or (4) the paid and wordy shilling of a Forbes advertiser, e.g.:

[Forbes] Korea's Entrepreneurs Garner Global Validation As Local 'Startup' Valuations Soar Into The Billions http://t.co/azshQ00GSZ

— BN3WS (@BN3WS) July 18, 2014

Thus, I hesitate three beats before clicking on a Forbes link. That is the definition of a devalued media brand. And that is precisely what other media companies should fear as they more and more try to fool their readers into thinking that what we used to call advertising is now something else that can comfortably live under brands, enigmatically labeled.

And this


http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/23/media-climate-change-warming-opinions-contributors-larry-bell.html

A Forbes contributed denying global warming. And you keep asking me what happened to their credibility :heh:

And there's plenty more where that came from, but I'm sure you'll just come up with more BS to deny it.​
Again. You are attacking their business model. I get it, there are people out there that are declaring that they find Forbes to be less credible because they don't like how they are conducting business. That very article in itself is link-bait. Despite that however, pointing out that a contributor to Forbes wrote about the advantages of buying a PS3 over a 360 and another article vice versa, doesn't detail how Forbes is fallen off. What was inside of those articles? Was what he wrote true or untrue? IGN writes articles like that all the time. Kotaku gives the advantages of owning one system over the other. I'm sure there are numerous tech blogs that have done the exact same thing, especially leading up to the launch of the consoles. That doesn't outline the lack of credibility. It just means one of there articles has a click-bait title. Again, when we are discussing online articles and publications as a whole, I'm sure you can find many examples out there from just about every publication at some point or another.

Just like that guy was able to point out that a contributor wrote competing articles, I'm looking for the article that explains not just how Forbes is getting people to their site, but how once those people get there, the information written in said articles are wrong. So much so that they can show a consistent series of occurrences which will lead them at the end of said article to declare that Forbes can't be trusted. All you have posted so far is "Hey....Forbes is bad, check out this article that they fukked up on.....SHAAAAAAME on them" I have a hard time believing that if the rest of the content on that site was egregious, that person that called them out wouldn't have continued to call them out and would have mounds of evidence. All of I've seen so far is "We don't like how they run their site, we don't think Forbes has integrity, and Did you see where they misspelled that one word that one time........."
 

MeachTheMonster

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Again. You are attacking their business model. I get it, there are people out there that are declaring that they find Forbes to be less credible because they don't like how they are conducting business. That very article in itself is link-bait. Despite that however, pointing out that a contributor to Forbes wrote about the advantages of buying a PS3 over a 360 and another article vice versa, doesn't detail how Forbes is fallen off. What was inside of those articles? Was what he wrote true or untrue? IGN writes articles like that all the time. Kotaku gives the advantages of owning one system over the other. I'm sure there are numerous tech blogs that have done the exact same thing, especially leading up to the launch of the consoles. That doesn't outline the lack of credibility. It just means one of there articles has a click-bait title. Again, when we are discussing online articles and publications as a whole, I'm sure you can find many examples out there from just about every publication at some point or another.

Just like that guy was able to point out that a contributor wrote competing articles, I'm looking for the article that explains not just how Forbes is getting people to their site, but how once those people get there, the information written in said articles are wrong. So much so that they can show a consistent series of occurrences which will lead them at the end of said article to declare that Forbes can't be trusted. All you have posted so far is "Hey....Forbes is bad, check out this article that they fukked up on.....SHAAAAAAME on them" I have a hard time believing that if the rest of the content on that site was egregious, that person that called them out wouldn't have continued to call them out and would have mounds of evidence. All of I've seen so far is "We don't like how they run their site, we don't think Forbes has integrity, and Did you see where they misspelled that one word that one time........."
The place has an article denying global warning. Do you think it's a credible source now?

I've now given you 4 articles in which a Forbes contributed straight up lied. I've given you comments from people in the financial industry that say Forbes isn't to be trusted. You admitted yourself that the owner and the business model is prone to fukkery.

There's really nothing else I can do here. I'm not gonna keep finding articles just for you to look for a way to discredit them.

The bottom line is the article in the OP is baseless speculation that contradicts the real info that we know to be true. And people in the financial industry no longer respect the Forbes name. That's all I said in my original two posts. And I've done more than prove those assertions.

Nothing more i can do here :manny:
 

The Phoenix

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The place has an article denying global warning. Do you think it's a credible source now?

I've now given you 4 articles in which a Forbes contributed straight up lied. I've given you comments from people in the financial industry that say Forbes isn't to be trusted. You admitted yourself that the owner and the business model is prone to fukkery.

There's really nothing else I can do here. I'm not gonna keep finding articles just for you to look for a way to discredit them.

The bottom line is the article in the OP is baseless speculation that contradicts the real info that we know to be true. And people in the financial industry no longer respect the Forbes name. That's all I said in my original two posts. And I've done more than prove those assertions.

Nothing more i can do here :manny:
You've provided comments from insiders who don't like the way Forbes handles business. That's not proof that they are universally disrespected.
 

MeachTheMonster

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what do nikkas get out of threads like this?

and im talking about both sides of the argument....

being a fan of a sports team and arguing about that is bad enough...but inanimate objects? :skip:....corporations?

nikkas are arguing over corporations? :patrice:

say that shyt out loud :snoop:
 

The Phoenix

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You have guys complaining about a list with Bill Walton on it and another BLOG not quoting a source and posting parts of an article and so on and so forth. Almost like there is an agenda at hand. Just because some of these guys have bones to pick or have varying opinions doesn't make the Forbes article that they are discussing in their own click-bait article wrong. Again, Forbes being inaccurate at some point doesn't diminish their credibility unless it gets to a point where everyone universally agrees that they can't be relied upon in terms of news. That simply hasn't happened. In one of those links you posted the author that made the error even went back and admitted to the mistake and made a correction. It happens. So far you just have guys poking the bear with one agenda or another. They don't like Forbes' business model, so now anytime something appears that has Forbes on it is supposed to be shyt.....especially if you don't agree with it. That's just not going to fly.
 
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