Nas - King’s Disease (Discussion Thread)

[Ziggiy]

Eminem has made some of the worst shyt I ever heard in my life after 2004. And that nikka gets passes for shyt that Nas or no other rapper would get.

Eminem is WHITE. He will always get a cac pass from Cacs who didn’t even like rap until his pale ass showed up on the scene

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Magna & KC got critiqued heavy wtf you talking about?

KC has some serious defenders though. Magna was trash and not too many people defend that one, but there are definitely Kingdom Come Truthers out there. I used to be one of them.

I still say The Prelude on there is one of Jay's best intros ever. I've cooled on my praise of the 3 Just Blaze joints on there and 2 of the Dr. Dre joints, Trouble and Lost Ones.

I think some of it comes down to Nas' album hierarchy seemingly being more agreed upon. Sure, there's some variety, but most people have Illmatic, Lost Tapes, It Was Written, and Stillmatic in their top 4.

Jay fans have his discography all over the place. It's usually Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint as the top 2, but the #3 spot could be Black Album, American Gangster, Vol 1, or 444, and it's not even uncommon to even see Blueprint hate. I've seen every Volume edition listed as the best one by respectable heads. The upper end and upper middle-ground of his catalogue seems to get debated more from what I see.

TL;DR: Because almost every Jay album is bound to be some peoples' top 3, there's a narrative (for better or worse) that it's a better catalogue.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

40 pages and no single or songs?

 

[Ziggiy]

As far as Nas fans go, to be all the way objective, I do believe a lot of the overzealousness and protectiveness from his hardcore fanbase, comes from Jay-Z praise in the media. Jay over the last 15-20 years has become a media darling, and his misses aren't nearly as criticized as Nas' are, and some of his "hits" are more championed than Nas'. That plays a huge role into why Nas fans feel like they have to be guardians of his legacy and sometimes show extreme adulation in a way to overcompensate for the lack of balance by which they are judged.

I don't particularly believe Jay's work in the last 10 years has been significantly better than Nas' (maybe slightly, overall quality wise), personally. However, Jay has created such a iconic legacy outside of just music, just as a brand and a business, that even if these people in charge of bigger platforms do feel Jay has made a misstep they won't be so quick to say it. Whereas Nas has not built that. For whatever reason that may be. Nas doesn't have the same relationship with people who are in control over the narrative of the culture, so there's really no relationship to nurture or protect. So that need to tip-toe around Nas' missteps aren't there, and people have no issues amplifying them.

Nas fans feel him and Jay should be equally critiqued, since they are basically the A1 and Ab of Hip Hop royalty when it comes to living Hip Hop artists. They're both Mount Rushmore levels but only one seems to be treated as such in the mainstream.

The one thing Nas hasn’t done that Jay did do EARLY on was network with the whose who of the industry. Flex, Angie, Elliot Wilson, etc. they all know Jay and like him because they feel they have a PERSONAL relationship or understanding with him.

Nas, especially early in his career was considered an enigma. He didn’t pal around too much within the industry and only fukked with artists and people he legitimately liked. And even people he DID fukk always said he was elusive and never quick to open up. Also Nas was QUICK to call people out. He called out Angie and Flex during the Power 105 rant. He called Angie’s rap song terrible and said that Flex takes cock in his mouth. I’m surprised to this DAY that Hot 97 didn’t do him like they did Wu Tang and ban all of his songs for years on end. He of course battled Jay-Z. He called out Nore & Dipset. Alot of those feuds people don’t realize took YEARS to resolve themselves. He appeared on the cover of XXL burning a SOURCE magazine. He was apparently offended by Elliot Wilson breaking stories about his divorce from Kelis and had Anthony Saleh tell him that Nas would NEVER grant him an interview for Rap Radar. He refused to interview with Whoo Kid back when Whoo was affiliated with G-Unit.

Nas pretty much refused to play the “game” as well as Jay did.

 

[Ziggiy]

When has he said I pick wack beats to rap on?

He hasn’t.


He said in an interview that he’s been criticized for not picking the best beats but that he picks beats that both challenge and inspire him.


He NEVER said that he picks “bad” beats on purpose. NEVER. He said that his lyrics are most important to him but that alot of the time the beats influence the writing

 

[Bickin Back Being Bool]

I'm worried about the bars, not the beats

Y'all can continue

 

[Big Mark]

As for the return to "Illmatic" producers debate, Should Pete Rock and Premo gotten some more placements over the years? Sure but this idea that he needs to keep the same set of producers over and over again doesn't really fly. (Premo was on NaS 1st 5 albums, why do people act like that didn't happen? that's 5 straight LP's with a Premo beat) Every artist expands and evolves and NaS is one of those artist for sure. NaS has pretty much worked with every Popular Mainstream Producer you can think of From Neptunes to Timbaland all the Mega producers etc. He's even worked with several unknown producers as well. Would I love a "Illmatic" type reunion LP where he brings everyone back, sure. But honestly "Stillmatic" was kind of that (Premo, LES, Large Pro) but left out Tip and Pete. And as others have mentioned, Q-tip did get a placement on "Street's Disciple" and NaS did do "Classic Remix" with Premo. As for Hit Boy, he's a more modern sound but I did like his work with Hov and Ye. Plus he's still going after coming in the Mid-2000's, that's pretty good. But I trust NaS enough to wait and see. If Hit Boy inspired him, then so be it.

As for the last 2 projects. "Nasir" was basically an EP and "Lost Tapes 2" was vault unreleased material. I enjoyed both projects for what they were. "Nasir" also went Top 5 on the Charts and "LT2" went #1 on the Digital charts and Top 10 on the main charts. The fact NaS is still charting this high this long shows how his longevity is still in tact. NaS needs to listen to his own instincts because that's what got him this far. Every fan is entitled to an opinion and Yes I do personally hold NaS to a very high standard with Lyrics and Production. But not one that won't allow him to grow artistically. We are highly anticipating a surprise 12th Solo LP because Nas has done it his way for almost 30 years after his 1st verse. "LT2" NaS gave us 2 Pete Rock beats and 2 RZA beats (All 4 were good still bumping them all a year later). That was a treat for me. He didn't have to do that. Rza never appeared on a NaS LP and Rock hasn't been on one in 25 years at that point. Overall if you been listening to NaS as long as I have, then you know you can't really put him in "Production" Box. NaS is way to versatile with his sound. That's what i love about his production.

I am pretty sure that over all these years, those "Illmatic producers" at least submitted beats to Nas. I agree with @Life is Good. If Nas wanted to work with them, he would've. I believe that if they sent him something that fit the sound that he was looking for, then I believe Nas would've worked with them.

 

[Ball]

Remember the hype for a new nas album after "Nas Album Done" and the Schoolboy Q Studio g-mix? It feels like that album dropping moment is finally here from way back then.

(Nasir doesn't count cause it was made in a week, LT2 a compilation)

 

[kes929]

The one thing Nas hasn’t done that Jay did do EARLY on was network with the whose who of the industry. Flex, Angie, Elliot Wilson, etc. they all know Jay and like him because they feel they have a PERSONAL relationship or understanding with him.

Nas, especially early in his career was considered an enigma. He didn’t pal around too much within the industry and only fukked with artists and people he legitimately liked. And even people he DID fukk always said he was elusive and never quick to open up. Also Nas was QUICK to call people out. He called out Angie and Flex during the Power 105 rant. He called Angie’s rap song terrible and said that Flex takes cock in his mouth. I’m surprised to this DAY that Hot 97 didn’t do him like they did Wu Tang and ban all of his songs for years on end. He of course battled Jay-Z. He called out Nore & Dipset. Alot of those feuds people don’t realize took YEARS to resolve themselves. He appeared on the cover of XXL burning a SOURCE magazine. He was apparently offended by Elliot Wilson breaking stories about his divorce from Kelis and had Anthony Saleh tell him that Nas would NEVER grant him an interview for Rap Radar. He refused to interview with Whoo Kid back when Whoo was affiliated with G-Unit.

Nas pretty much refused to play the “game” as well as Jay did.

Nas still wound up being the goat without all that extra

 

[Cladyclad]

The one thing Nas hasn’t done that Jay did do EARLY on was network with the whose who of the industry. Flex, Angie, Elliot Wilson, etc. they all know Jay and like him because they feel they have a PERSONAL relationship or understanding with him.

Nas, especially early in his career was considered an enigma. He didn’t pal around too much within the industry and only fukked with artists and people he legitimately liked. And even people he DID fukk always said he was elusive and never quick to open up. Also Nas was QUICK to call people out. He called out Angie and Flex during the Power 105 rant. He called Angie’s rap song terrible and said that Flex takes cock in his mouth. I’m surprised to this DAY that Hot 97 didn’t do him like they did Wu Tang and ban all of his songs for years on end. He of course battled Jay-Z. He called out Nore & Dipset. Alot of those feuds people don’t realize took YEARS to resolve themselves. He appeared on the cover of XXL burning a SOURCE magazine. He was apparently offended by Elliot Wilson breaking stories about his divorce from Kelis and had Anthony Saleh tell him that Nas would NEVER grant him an interview for Rap Radar. He refused to interview with Whoo Kid back when Whoo was affiliated with G-Unit.

Nas pretty much refused to play the “game” as well as Jay did.

None of the names u mentioned could affect Nas in anyway. Jay has been in feuds with way more people than Nas. Nas is friendly with the top people not those peons. No if u said he had beef with Jews or something sure but Flex & Angie. That’s New York. shyt has no bearing outside the tri state.

no more sugarcoating. Nas don’t have fun or humor on his albums anymore. They too serious from beginning to end. He need to lossen up a bit. Hav some fukking fun

 

[Piff Perkins]

The one thing Nas hasn’t done that Jay did do EARLY on was network with the whose who of the industry. Flex, Angie, Elliot Wilson, etc. they all know Jay and like him because they feel they have a PERSONAL relationship or understanding with him.

Nas, especially early in his career was considered an enigma. He didn’t pal around too much within the industry and only fukked with artists and people he legitimately liked. And even people he DID fukk always said he was elusive and never quick to open up. Also Nas was QUICK to call people out. He called out Angie and Flex during the Power 105 rant. He called Angie’s rap song terrible and said that Flex takes cock in his mouth. I’m surprised to this DAY that Hot 97 didn’t do him like they did Wu Tang and ban all of his songs for years on end. He of course battled Jay-Z. He called out Nore & Dipset. Alot of those feuds people don’t realize took YEARS to resolve themselves. He appeared on the cover of XXL burning a SOURCE magazine. He was apparently offended by Elliot Wilson breaking stories about his divorce from Kelis and had Anthony Saleh tell him that Nas would NEVER grant him an interview for Rap Radar. He refused to interview with Whoo Kid back when Whoo was affiliated with G-Unit.

Nas pretty much refused to play the “game” as well as Jay did.

That’s more of a personality thing than a true decision imo. Hov is a hustler and charmer. Nas is antisocial and sticks to his people. Hov also rewarded people....a practice he still uses to this day. Media people want access. They want an invite to the exclusive party, or the hot party. They want an interview. They want a shout out. Nas just isn’t that dude to do that stuff.

To me the bigger Hov/Nas difference is that Hov always understood cutting edge production is key. He built a production team that laced him with heat and went on to become some of the greatest in the game (Kanye, Just Blaze, Bink to a lesser extent). He also fostered relationships with top tier producers and kept feeding them (Timbo, Pharrell, etc). Nas had the budgets to do this but just never capitalized. That’s why every noteworthy major rapper in recent years has had some type of production crew. You have to get hungry young beat makers and see if they flourish.

 

[tremonthustler1]

He hasn’t.


He said in an interview that he’s been criticized for not picking the best beats but that he picks beats that both challenge and inspire him.


He NEVER said that he picks “bad” beats on purpose. NEVER. He said that his lyrics are most important to him but that alot of the time the beats influence the writing

Then he needs some inspiration from La Musica

 

[George's Dilemma]

Naw, Nas is the most overly critiqued rapper of all time.... every album, single, career move is examined ridiculously...

We dont ever bring up the 5-6 wack albums Jay Z has...

but someone bring up I AM being a 3.5 Mic album and it was the worst thing to ever happen to music.

It's crazy unfair how he's held to such a standard. They even tried to metoo him with the Kelis allegations. It was almost like critics made an organized concerted effort to get him out the paint when Nasir dropped using Kelis and MAGA Ye as their justifiable reasons for mediocre reviews.

 

[kes929]

That’s more of a personality thing than a true decision imo. Hov is a hustler and charmer. Nas is antisocial and sticks to his people. Hov also rewarded people....a practice he still uses to this day. Media people want access. They want an invite to the exclusive party, or the hot party. They want an interview. They want a shout out. Nas just isn’t that dude to do that stuff.

To me the bigger Hov/Nas difference is that Hov always understood cutting edge production is key. He built a production team that laced him with heat and went on to become some of the greatest in the game (Kanye, Just Blaze, Bink to a lesser extent). He also fostered relationships with top tier producers and kept feeding them (Timbo, Pharrell, etc). Nas had the budgets to do this but just never capitalized. That’s why every noteworthy major rapper in recent years has had some type of production crew. You have to get hungry young beat makers and see if they flourish.

And i went back and listened to some of those so called great beats HOV always raps on boy if Nas picked some of those trash beats people would have a fit. Some of those beats on the volume series of albums are super trash. He has rapped on alot of trash. It just doesnt get highlighted

 

[old pig]

I’m amped