Nas - King’s Disease (Discussion Thread)

[FreshAIG]

A lot of his lyrics are trash though, right? He started doing these dad joke style punch lines around the time of MMLP2 and a lot of them are cringe worthy to the point of me truly not believing any other emcee as technical and talented as him would ever get a pass for.

Would anyone let Nas or Jay live it down for saying someone booty was heavy duty/doodie like diarrhea?

The content is corny but the way he puts syllables together and still making sense is masterful. Even if I don't particularly care for what he's saying, I respect the talent that takes. He makes words bend and rhyme in sequence better than any rapper I've heard.

 

[spliz]

When has he said I pick wack beats to rap on?

nikkas always run wit that. Nas didn’t say he picks wack beats. He said he likes to pick beats that challenge him and his pen. That spark creativity.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

As far as Nas fans go, to be all the way objective, I do believe a lot of the overzealousness and protectiveness from his hardcore fanbase, comes from Jay-Z praise in the media. Jay over the last 15-20 years has become a media darling, and his misses aren't nearly as criticized as Nas' are, and some of his "hits" are more championed than Nas'. That plays a huge role into why Nas fans feel like they have to be guardians of his legacy and sometimes show extreme adulation in a way to overcompensate for the lack of balance by which they are judged.

I don't particularly believe Jay's work in the last 10 years has been significantly better than Nas' (maybe slightly, overall quality wise), personally. However, Jay has created such a iconic legacy outside of just music, just as a brand and a business, that even if these people in charge of bigger platforms do feel Jay has made a misstep they won't be so quick to say it. Whereas Nas has not built that. For whatever reason that may be. Nas doesn't have the same relationship with people who are in control over the narrative of the culture, so there's really no relationship to nurture or protect. So that need to tip-toe around Nas' missteps aren't there, and people have no issues amplifying them.

Nas fans feel him and Jay should be equally critiqued, since they are basically the A1 and Ab of Hip Hop royalty when it comes to living Hip Hop artists. They're both Mount Rushmore levels but only one seems to be treated as such in the mainstream.

Jay has definitely always had this ability to sort of say things about his career and legacy, and true or not, they seem to become believed by the public. I don't know if there's a better rapper at speaking what they want their legacy to be into existence, when it comes to the minds of the public at large.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

The content is corny but the way he puts syllables together and still making sense is masterful. Even if I don't particularly care for what he's saying, I respect the talent that takes. He makes words bend and rhyme in sequence better than any rapper I've heard.

No doubt. I don't disagree. I describe him as an Artificial Intelligence that was programmed to master the art of rhyming things.

 

[FreshAIG]

No doubt. I don't disagree. I describe him as an Artificial Intelligence that was programmed to master the art of rhyming things.

LOL facts! Son is a robot.

 

[Stick Up Kid]

...........

 

[Piff Perkins]

I get the vibe that Nas goes out of his way NOT to work with people that some of his fans would like him to. Almost like, "fukk you, I'm gonna do what I want to do." He seems to be maturing past some of that, because a lot of Lost Tapes 2 was actually not lost, and recorded specifically for the album. The QB Politics joint by Pete Rock was recorded recently, and so was the Alchemist joint.

So I think he's doing what he wants to do, but also realizing that he doesn't need to go out of his way to avoid working with producers that were on Illmatic, etc.

And BTW I think Hit-Boy is underrated, and I'm looking forward to whatever they've got.

And regarding Primo. Primo is more difficult to work with than a lot of people realize. The fact that Primo and Nas never did a full album is often blamed on Nas, and Primo is always on some "I would be down to do it anytime", but there's a reason why the last time Primo worked with Nas and Jay was almost 20 years ago, and it's not all the fault of Nas and Jay.

Primo tours like crazy. Is there also another reason that delays things? I was amazed that he didn’t get a track on the Black Album, after initially being asked to do the entire album.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Jay has definitely always had this ability to sort of say things about his career and legacy, and true or not, they seem to become believed by the public. I don't know if there's a better rapper at speaking what they want their legacy to be into existence, when it comes to the minds of the public at large.

People have somehow forgotten that DMX, Em, Nelly, 50, and arguably Ja Rule were bigger than Jay at varying points.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Primo tours like crazy. Is there also another reason that delays things? I was amazed that he didn’t get a track on the Black Album, after initially being asked to do the entire album.

I hear he's kind of stubborn and really likes to work on his own timetable. I don't think he's very accommodating of other people's schedules. even if its a big artist. I also know he likes to make a beat with someone in mind, and really tries to get them to use that beat, and he's hesitant to try alternatives. I don't think he's the guy that goes in there and brings a bunch of beats ready to play.

In regards to the Black Album, he was supposed to do Threat. Jay actually has a co-production credit on that song because he gave 9th the sample. Jay wanted to bring in Primo to flip a 2nd R. Kelly sample (like he did 1st on Unbelievable for Biggie.) Primo missed the session, which led to the videographer for Fade to Black and Young Guru telling Jay to bring up 9th Wonder. 9th played a bunch of beats for Jay, and Jay gave him a burned CD-R with the Kells sample on it, and asked 9th to flip it.

So it another timeline, Primo didn't miss the studio session and probably would've been the one to flip a 2nd Kells sample for Jay on The Black Album.

I also hear Primo's a pretty heavy porn addict, and that he's a big homebody in general. Not liking to leave the house very much. A lot of producers are eccentric homebodies though, is I'm not picking on the dude. Primo in his prime is my favorite producer of all time.

EDIT: Before I get misinterpreted too much or flamed, I explain more here: https://www.thecoli.com/posts/38667646/

 

[Frump]

When has he said I pick wack beats to rap on?

he didn’t say “weak” but he said “challenging” beats to rhyme on because he wants the rhymes to be the focal point not the beat

 

[Frump]

nikkas always run wit that. Nas didn’t say he picks wack beats. He said he likes to pick beats that challenge him and his pen. That spark creativity.

If you’re looking for challenging beats that means you’re just looking for beats where you can experiment with flows and spit the best you’re not just looking for bangers that slap that would make for the better music

 

[FunkDoc1112]

I hear he's kind of stubborn and really likes to work on his own timetable. I don't think he's very accommodating of other people's schedules. even if its a big artist. I also know he likes to make a beat with someone in mind, and really tries to get them to use that beat, and he's hesitant to try alternatives. I don't think he's the guy that goes in there and brings a bunch of beats ready to play.

In regards to the Black Album, he was supposed to do Threat. Jay actually has a co-production credit on that song because he gave 9th the sample. Jay wanted to bring in Primo to flip a 2nd R. Kelly sample (like he did 1st on Unbelievable for Biggie.) Primo missed the session, which led to the videographer for Fade to Black and Young Guru telling Jay to bring up 9th Wonder. 9th played a bunch of beats for Jay, and Jay gave him a burned CD-R with the Kells sample on it, and asked 9th to flip it.

So it another timeline, Primo didn't miss the studio session and probably would've been the one to flip a 2nd Kells sample for Jay on The Black Album.

I also hear Primo's a pretty heavy porn addict, and that he's a big homebody in general. Not liking to leave the house very much. A lot of producers are eccentric homebodies though, is I'm not picking on the dude. Primo in his prime is my favorite producer of all time.

What is it with producers and porn

Questlove, Ye, Q-Tip, hella backpack nikkas, now Premo too

Kinda makes sense though. You're in the house a lot, not very social to begin with...

 

[Cladyclad]

Nobody is judging nas any different than any other artist. Wtf are talking about? Nas has it probably easier than Jay in that regards over the last 20 years

 

[Mike the Executioner]

I'm gonna play a little bit of Devil's Advocate, at least in regards to Dre. And I'm sorry ahead of time for the long post.

There are a lot of reasons why Dre never dropped Detox that go beyond people picking apart music with a fine tooth comb. I mean yeah, people do pick shyt apart. But that's been the case ever since the internet age of music, forums, and especially social media.

A lot of artists simply choose to not even read reviews or look at what fans are saying. It sounds old-fashioned, but that's always an option.

Dre is TOO MUCH of a perfectionist, to the point where it creates "paralysis by analysis." He overthinks everything. The dude will sit in a studio for 4 weeks just tweaking the mix of one snare on one song.

There's the total opposite approach, where Jay-Z recorded 2/3rds of Blueprint in 1 weekend, and Currensy, Gibbs, and Alchemist recorded Fetti in 7 days. A lot of music that gets released super fast is dope. A lot of it is not. And a lot of it is in between.

I guess my point is that good, quality music can be made rather quickly, and overthinking is almost always bad for the artistic process. Just Blaze is an elite producer and said if he couldn't finish a beat in 30 minutes that he'd scrap it and start over, because it was going to sound forced. A lot of the best beats ever by Pete Rock, RZA, Primo, Alchemist, Madlib, Just Blaze, and many others were infamously made in under an hour, and many as little as 15-20 minutes.

I'd argue that Dr. Dre really has overthought almost everything since Chronic 2001. Say what you will about Relapse, and the hate that album gets, but Dre locked the world out on that album, and the production isn't bad at all. He didn't overthink it. He locked himself away with Em, and knocked it out fairly quick.

So Dr. Dre is just as responsible for the impossible hype to live up to behind the Detox album as any of his peers, fans or critics are. According to Nottz and Just Blaze (who both produced on Detox) they said there have been multiple versions of the album that sounded just fine, and would've been perfectly enjoyable for casual fans.

Everything you said about Dre can also be applied to Eminem, but especially this part. They both went against their usual process when they did Relapse. It was Eminem's first album in five years, his big comeback album, and he made a strange, horrorcore-style concept album. Not many artists would even think to do that, but it was a bold move. When Eminem made Relapse, he wasn't thinking about record sales, he wasn't thinking about how people would take it, and he wasn't thinking about playing it safe. He just locked in on a concept he liked and went with it.

But because it didn't go over, he switched it up and went for the pop sound on Recovery. I understand why he did, but at times, it didn't even sound like a true Eminem album. Just something he made because he felt like he had to deliver on sales. And this is when he started becoming more of a perfectionist than before.

It's just funny to me how most of what Eminem recorded for the first MMLP ended up making the album, and "The Real Slim Shady" was a last minute thing that was made right when the deadline was coming. Fast forward to the second MMLP, and he recorded multiple albums' worth of tracks for it.

 

[spliz]

Nobody is judging nas any different than any other artist. Wtf are talking about? Nas has it probably easier than Jay in that regards over the last 20 years

Son this is a lie. nikkas is scared to even criticize a Jay album in public. Especially critics. Jay has it harder when it comes to people’s perception of what he gives back tho.