NJ to allocate $2.1M in aid for illegal immigrants facing deportation
- Thread starter theworldismine13
- Start date
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
2.1 million is a drop in the bucket.
If people want to be xenophobes that's their business, but let's not use pseudointellectual nonsense to rationalize it.
2.1 million would guarantee every kid in Newark a job for the summer or a college grant, it’s not a drop in the bucket at all
But it’s not about the money, it’s the gall and audacity of announcing something like this, this is what black people voted for? for non citizens to be given grants for breaking the laws of the us
Fillerguy
Veteran
this is such a massive drain on our already crippled economy. Those tax dollars would be put to better use in our corrupt politicians pockets
Perfectson
Banned
Why is a position that black Americans should receive all aid before Illegals or Isreal receive any aid or help...considered a bad one?
Black Americans helped build this nation and keep it going but both parties act like its poison to specifically aid us only (with no intersection BS).
New Jersey has the 3rd highest unemployment rate in the USA for African Americans.
New Jersey has the biggest gap between black and white incarceration rates of any state in the U.S
We are the only real illegals
Because blacks aren't trying too work and rather be stuck in the welfare net. We have some really dumb backward policies. People are smartly taking welfare then working menial jobs and America is happy to have these people working at lower wages vs empowering blacks in the work force.
It's a real fukked situation, I know how to solve and the answer is one that people will hate but it works.
I would love for 2.1 million to have every kid get a job or get summer or a college grant. So why can’t NJ pull another 2.1 million for that plan while covering these deportations?
Lol
You feel like you made a point because you said the words xenophobe, pseudointellectual and drop in the bucket.
But you don't realize you literally said nothing...
I understood exactly what he meant. It was short, simple, straight to the point.
YOU on the other hand go on long winded speeches that never actually address the root of question whenever you respond.
I ALWAYS skim thorough everything you respond to.
That whole conversation was your classic, "Basing my thought on my preconceived notions while barely even reading what other people are saying."
And you whole "illegals take jobs from citizens" is based on ignorance of how economies work. If you have, say, 50,000 illegal immigrants working in New Jersey, that's hundreds of thousands of people (including their families) spending money and producing in the economy each year. Take out 50,000 working people from a community and the economy declines dramatically. It's possible that they take "some" jobs from citizens, but it's impossible that it would be 50,000 - more likely 5,000 or 10,000 or something. Thus it's virtually certain the overall tax impact of losing them would be negative.
And since immigrants have such high entrepreneurial rates, some studies have shown that they actually grow economies more dramatically than citizens do and thus there might even be a net gain of citizens with jobs due to the immigrant population.
There's only a few hundred kids in Newark?
the cac mamba
Veteran
interesting point, given that illegal families use twice as much in govt money and resources as they take in. it's something like they put in 15k, but cost the government 30k. so your point is trash
The economic consensus is that the benefits of immigration to the economy far outweigh economic costs:
Do Illegal Immigrants Actually Hurt the U.S. Economy?
Undocumented immigrants pay more than their fair share in taxes - The Boston Globe
An Open Letter from 1,470 Economists on Immigration
Which dumbass propaganda group put that one out, the Heritage Foundation or FAIR?
You're a joke if you believed numbers coming from either one of them.
Here's an analysis by a conservative (but non-racist and actually legit) think tank, the Cato Institute:
FAIR’s “Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration” Study Is Fatally Flawed
I'll point out that Jon Tanton, founder of FAIR, is a proven White Supremacist.
The Heritage Foundation study was just as bad - it projected costs over 50 years (how the hell do you know what the situation will be 50 years from now???), ignored inflation, ignored all effects of immigration on the economy, counted illegal immigrants' children as "illegal families" when they were going to school (so it could count public school costs) but then didn't count all the tax money that education paid off in for the next 40 years afterwards because those adult children were now (citizen families).
Even Republicans like Jeff Flake, Marco Rubio, and Paul Ryan criticized the study, as did both current and former heads of the Congressional Budget Office:
The Immigration Bill's '$6.3 Trillion Price Tag' - FactCheck.org
The CATO Institute has mocked Heritage's biased and flawed methodology as well:
Heritage's Flawed Immigration Analysis
Do Illegal Immigrants Actually Hurt the U.S. Economy?
Undocumented immigrants pay more than their fair share in taxes - The Boston Globe
An Open Letter from 1,470 Economists on Immigration
interesting point, given that illegal families use twice as much in govt money and resources as they take in. it's something like they put in 15k, but cost the government 30k. so your point is trash
Which dumbass propaganda group put that one out, the Heritage Foundation or FAIR?
You're a joke if you believed numbers coming from either one of them.
Here's an analysis by a conservative (but non-racist and actually legit) think tank, the Cato Institute:
FAIR’s “Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration” Study Is Fatally Flawed
I'll point out that Jon Tanton, founder of FAIR, is a proven White Supremacist.
The Heritage Foundation study was just as bad - it projected costs over 50 years (how the hell do you know what the situation will be 50 years from now???), ignored inflation, ignored all effects of immigration on the economy, counted illegal immigrants' children as "illegal families" when they were going to school (so it could count public school costs) but then didn't count all the tax money that education paid off in for the next 40 years afterwards because those adult children were now (citizen families).
Even Republicans like Jeff Flake, Marco Rubio, and Paul Ryan criticized the study, as did both current and former heads of the Congressional Budget Office:
The Immigration Bill's '$6.3 Trillion Price Tag' - FactCheck.org
The CATO Institute has mocked Heritage's biased and flawed methodology as well:
Heritage's Flawed Immigration Analysis
Perfectson
Banned
The economic consensus is that the benefits of immigration to the economy far outweigh economic costs:
Do Illegal Immigrants Actually Hurt the U.S. Economy?
Undocumented immigrants pay more than their fair share in taxes - The Boston Globe
An Open Letter from 1,470 Economists on Immigration
Which dumbass propaganda group put that one out, the Heritage Foundation or FAIR?
You're a joke if you believed numbers coming from either one of them.
Here's an analysis by a conservative (but non-racist and actually legit) think tank, the Cato Institute:
FAIR’s “Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration” Study Is Fatally Flawed
I'll point out that Jon Tanton, founder of FAIR, is a proven White Supremacist.
The Heritage Foundation study was just as bad - it projected costs over 50 years (how the hell do you know what the situation will be 50 years from now???), ignored inflation, ignored all effects of immigration on the economy, counted illegal immigrants' children as "illegal families" when they were going to school (so it could count public school costs) but then didn't count all the tax money that education paid off in for the next 40 years afterwards because those adult children were now (citizen families).
Even Republicans like Jeff Flake, Marco Rubio, and Paul Ryan criticized the study, as did both current and former heads of the Congressional Budget Office:
The Immigration Bill's '$6.3 Trillion Price Tag' - FactCheck.org
The CATO Institute has mocked Heritage's biased and flawed methodology as well:
Heritage's Flawed Immigration Analysis
I'm going to use common sense here's. If an illegal is making 15k-20k and paying taxes there's no possible way they would be paying their fair share for all the public social programs we have expecially if they have children. Of course critics will say the children are citizen but that's a fallacy , because those children wouldn't be citizens of not for the illegal behavior of the parents. You have to count all costs imo.
The marginal impact of illegals vs legal is on the legal side. While illegals may not be a net deficit they aren't marginally better then having a legal workforce.
"I'm not an expert here, but I'm gonna assume that my common sense overrides everything that the majority of economists and experts on both sides of the political spectrum AND even outside of it say."
One factor is that illegal immigrants both don't qualify for and avoid most of the public social programs that we have. They don't get welfare, they don't get social security, they don't get veteran's benefits, they don't get Medicare, they don't get unemployment, they don't go to school, they don't get housing subsidies, they don't get corporate subsidies, they tend to be on the younger side so they use hospital services comparatively rarely, they commit crimes at a very low rate and they don't report crimes committed against them so they use police services very rarely, and they don't access government services.
The largest items on the federal budget are military, social security, and medicare. They obviously don't get any of those. After that you have unemployment, ag subsidies, veteran's benefits, running the government bureaucracy, education, international affairs, and housing. They don't get most of those either.
The only public benefits that your average 30-year-old Mexican day laborer is taking advantage of are public roads, public transport, rarely medical services, and extremely rarely police/fire services. Those are a tiny % of the government's budget.
On the other hand, at least half of illegal immigrants pay taxes to the federal government. Because they don't have a legit social security number, they pay billions in social security that they can't collect, billions in Medicare that they won't qualify for, and billions in income taxes that they can't apply for a refund on. They're not even in the regular $20k tax bracket because they can't apply for a refund, they get an automatic deduction out and just have to let that ride.
You're right that citizen children will cost more - they will get a public education, public healthcare, and possibly will qualify for food stamps. But your issue is in assuming that those are net costs. One study after another shows that education FAR more than pays back its costs, the longer students stay in school the more income they make over a lifetime. You are crediting the costs of those citizen children to their undocumented parents, when the costs actually should be credited to their futures in the country, where they are most likely to break even or better.
If you are going to count the costs of citizens against the undocumented immigrants, then you have to count the future benefits of those citizens too. Especially in an aging native workforce, those are significant benefits.
True, it is likely that there would be even more benefit if they were legalized.
Perfectson
Banned
So you sarcastically attack me regarding common sense but then agreed with my whole synopsis, which is they aren't paying theirs fair share. (Which you quoted and agreed on)
You're using fairly flawed studies, no one can even accurately estimate the number of illegals we have in the country
Thecoli yall.
Your reading comprehension on this site does help to explain how you came to hold your particular set of beliefs.
And to be clear, do you know who actually isn't paying their fair share?
Non-working adults who collect benefits, the military-industrial complex, the financial services industry, seniors who substantially outlive/outsick their contributions to the system, subsidized corporate agriculture, portions of the pharmaceutical and health care insurance system, lobbyists, prisoners, Israel, and certain wealthy persons and corporations who practice tax dodges and tax forgiveness well in excess of their positive contributions.*
Damn near everyone else is paying MORE than their fair share. The average fully employed working-class young adult is paying WAY more than their fair share, whether legal or illegal.
* And, by extension, also the idiots who vote for us to spend so much damn money on the military industrial complex, the financial services industry, subsidized corporate agriculture, corruption/overpricing in the pharmaceutical and health care insurance industries, lobbyists, prisons, Israel, and tax dodges for the wealthy and certain corporations.
Non-working adults who collect benefits, the military-industrial complex, the financial services industry, seniors who substantially outlive/outsick their contributions to the system, subsidized corporate agriculture, portions of the pharmaceutical and health care insurance system, lobbyists, prisoners, Israel, and certain wealthy persons and corporations who practice tax dodges and tax forgiveness well in excess of their positive contributions.*
Damn near everyone else is paying MORE than their fair share. The average fully employed working-class young adult is paying WAY more than their fair share, whether legal or illegal.
* And, by extension, also the idiots who vote for us to spend so much damn money on the military industrial complex, the financial services industry, subsidized corporate agriculture, corruption/overpricing in the pharmaceutical and health care insurance industries, lobbyists, prisons, Israel, and tax dodges for the wealthy and certain corporations.
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just continuing obama's legacy 