Official 2020 Iowa Caucus Thread

[Uno Venova]

So we going to pretend that Warren is snake thing didn't happen?

Your bringing up two different problems now breh. Because that poster was implying insulting other supporters. I haven’t seen that online or videos documenting real life

 

[Kenny West]

If you don't understand this basic psychology, we can stop here.

A head coach/QB sets the tone. You don't see WR's and linemen bashing Tom Brady every game(win or lose) cause the leader sets the example even when things are good and when they get bad or frustrating.

Bernie is setting the example. What's his appeal? That he consistent and doesn't waiver. That he's always been the same. That he's in your face(I wrote the damn bill). That he's going to break the system.

So how is that same approach not being taken by his surroagates online? So when someone says things are rigged and that the DNC system needs to be destroyed and Trump getting 4 more years will do it. So you have Bernie Bros who won't waiver and admit, oh, well it happens. No it's a conspiracy!!!!

This idiotic comparison fails because you're comparing an organized sports team to thousands of otherwise seperate individuals online who support a politican.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about after I spelled it out. I guess we agree. You don't get it.

You went on an anecdotal rant that I cant tell if its just really specific or a load of shyt

Yes, I dont get it.

I mean this is semantics. You're just characterizing a whole group of people's motivations as evil just cause they aren't on our side. That's not why passion is dangerous.

Your entire argument is semantics

"Passion got us trump!! " Bro are you kidding?

I don't have a problem with people being passionate about overturning Roe v Wade. I have a problem when that passion is used to subvert the rules.

So when if Bernie were to lose cause every other candidates support went to someone else. That's not subversion or rigging against Bernie. He just lost. But to some passionate supporters. Not getting their way is what would lead them to supporting Trump or not the Dem nominee. Nothing to do with evil.

That itself wouldnt be but its already etched into history as FACT that the DNC and media colluded against bernie. It happened. It still happens.

And after years of pounding the public with stories about election security you're damn right the public is gonna theorize when they flub a fukking vote count. Are you serious right now?

 

[storyteller]

You really don't get why you don't call out your own team's major mistakes?

Obamacare's online rollout was a major disaster with a lot more money and R&D going into it than his app. But there's a difference between saying "we need to do more to fix things cause it's important and we promised the American people to make it work" vs " The Dems are incompentent. It's Obama's fault for not getting more Republicans to help."

Again, Bernie isn't a Dam. I know it makes it easier for his supporters to attack the DNC, Dems, and Hilary. But that double edged sword doesn't get you support from those people and it certainly won't get Republicans on your side.

Nah, this is the type of BS that lets the incompetence continue. People aren't stupid. You tell them "this was a screw up but we're going to improve" and work from there. It's much better than pretending nothing's wrong like the "this is fine" meme in the burning building. You know why you call out mistakes? So you don't repeat them. Plain and simple.

Bernie isn't a dam. But you're dreaming if you don't think EVERYONE has supporters that attack and do low ball shyt. This wouldn't be bad faith or low blows. This would be honesty about wtf happened. Bernie didn't screw Warren or her supporters over. Pete Buttigeig did. The Iowa Dems lack of competence did. The DNC looking out for buddies instead of what's viable did. So if yall want to make this about Bernie supporters, it's just more stupidity. Making excuses for the people screwing you over at the expense of the only ones willing to point out you got hosed.

 

[King Kreole]

I truly believe the biggest weakness for Warren and her supporters is being worried about being judged. Yall once again blew a chance to call out a fiasco and how it hurt your candidate but you're worried you'll be treated like conspiracy theorists? Why? Just point at what's known...there was gross incompetence that has allowed Pete Buttigeig to claim an unwarranted victory which has bumped him to second in New Hampshire. That will put Warren's campaign on life support imo. She should have had all week to sell herself as the more viable candidate, instead Pete got the Iowa bump so far.

But god forbid you act upset about your candidate getting harmed by the failures of the process...you might be called a conspiracy theorist .

I said it right after the mess began



The opportunity to make this play is slipping away, you need momentum for Super Tuesday. I still think Liz can put the work in via the debates but damn...yall shoulda made at least some noise and it didn't take a conspiracy theory at all.

My concerns with conspiracy theorizing isn't about being judged, it's how it easily metastasizes into bad governance and lack of meaningful progress. Liz did call out the Iowa fiasco:



She was able to criticize the gross incompetence of the process without veering into conspiracy theories about the DNC rigging it against her that prime her supporters to disengage from the process. Again, she was arguably the one who was harmed most from this fiasco yet she was still able to see the bigger picture and move forward. Being bitter about the process makes good CNN headlines and gives the talking heads a beef to gawk at, but I don't see how that's meaningful.

 

[King Kreole]

​

For example. This has gone on since Sanders began running for president. Insulting people you will eventually need as allies doesn’t make sense in the long run. Sh!t, even if he wins the nomination and beats Trump, how do you govern and get your agenda passed when people held their nose and voted for you?

[/QUOTE]
Especially for a candidate/campaign that will require mass civil engagement from the most amount of people possible to even scratch the edges of his agenda, the idea that being as polarizing and antagonistic to potential allies is the way to go is beyond me.

 

[Uno Venova]

I bet no one can point to a tweet, video or anything from Sanders or his campaign team that tells his supporters to bully people online

 

[Json]

This idiotic comparison fails because you're comparing an organized sports team to thousands of otherwise seperate individuals online who support a politican.

A campaign isn't a organization of individuals?




Of that's right. When someone is barely connected to Hilary or voted for her write an article negative of Bernie. It's a conspiracy by the DNC to stop Bernie's rise!

But a Bernie campaign staffer insults Warren or Biden...that's not what Sander's is about. It's a rogue staffer!!!

You went on an anecdotal rant that I cant tell if its just really specific or a load of shyt

Yes, I dont get it.

No I wrote two post explaining Obama's positivity message was apart of a unifying message that he set the example for. You didn't get it and insulted it.

Okay. we done.

Your entire argument is semantics

"Passion got us trump!! " Bro are you kidding?

That's not what I said. You said any passion in good. and I disagree. That's not sematincs. That's fact. These things happened. The Tea Party and such proved it.

Get over yourself.

That itself wouldnt be but its already etched into history as FACT that the DNC and media colluded against bernie. It happened. It still happens.

And after years of pounding the public with stories about election security you're damn right the public is gonna theorize when they flub a fukking vote count. Are you serious right now?

And the media didn't unfairly attack Hilary? Male news anchor's sexist questioning and such? She still got the most votes. Cause she got her people to come out.

And it's not the public questioning the election security of the app or counting that's the problem. It's that trying to link it conspiracies even after it's been proven wrong that's the problem. Naming Hilary people who had nothing to do with the app cause they didn't take 5 minutes to research instead of seeing one article.

 

[jj23]

Daily check-in to see who won in the end? Surely everything is counted now?

 

[Uno Venova]

Daily check-in to see who won in the end? Surely everything is counted now?

Noope. We still got some minority districts to count

 

[King Kreole]

THIS!!! This exactly. Liz has the juice to make a run but not by being quiet and hoping things fall right. And it's not HER, she's gonna keep bodying her public appearances. But she needs the energy from her base just like any other candidate. Didn't David Brock PAY people to back Hillary and fight for her?

I think her theory is that in order to enact progressive change, you can't afford to alienate potential party allies. Bernie is leaning into the intra-Dem polarization whereas Warren is fighting against it. That's why she's mostly reticent to take potshots at other campaigns or their supporters. She's running as the candidate to bring the entire Democratic coalition together under the banner of progressive politics.

 

[storyteller]

My concerns with conspiracy theorizing isn't about being judged, it's how it easily metastasizes into bad governance and lack of meaningful progress. Liz did call out the Iowa fiasco:



She was able to criticize the gross incompetence of the process without veering into conspiracy theories about the DNC rigging it against her that prime her supporters to disengage from the process. Again, she was arguably the one who was harmed most from this fiasco yet she was still able to see the bigger picture and move forward. Being bitter about the process makes good CNN headlines and gives the talking heads a beef to gawk at, but I don't see how that's meaningful.

Yeah...this is crazy to me. You think she was the most harmed by this but you're gonna bite your tongue and hope for the best. CNN headlines are meaningless? Nah fam...yall could use Warren's name being thrown into every conversation about winners, who got cheated, etc. leading into the next primary less than a week away. This is just bad strategy to me. I'm glad you can look in the mirror and say "I'm not a conspiracy theorist" but everyone else is playing to win. Warren gave yall the springboard to be her street team. Yall said "we're above this." Good for you, bad for her candidacy. And I'm pissed at this because I think she COULD win, but yall aren't doing her any favors.

 

[SunZoo]

If you're "giving Bootyjudge a second look" then you were never a policy minded progressive to begin with because Butti gang has no policy proposals out there and is running off of cliches, youth, and looks.

Liz was always the compromise, talk sweet in the primary, move to the center afterward, Obama 2.0 candidate. The reason why someone could claim progressive and 'give a second look' to Howdy Doody is because they're clearly not in the game for actual progress. Their candidate get's fukked and they're still making standing up to us and tone policing a priority because they want to be able to virtue signal without really changing anything. They want a compromise between the 1% and the poor/working class because that's where a lot of them reside. Comfortable enough to want to keep decorum, not uncomfortable enough to fight for their candidate, let alone actually stand in solidarity with the poor/working class.

Fortunately, the lack of conviction means that if we stay vigilant and strong and lead, the majority of those types will follow. If it worked both ways and and Bernie supporters weren't so unyielding he wouldn't have made it this far. I want people to hear Bernie out and be on the right side of history but that doesn't mean I have to coddle or appeal to people acting in bad faith.

 

[jj23]

Noope. We still got some minority districts to count

 

[storyteller]

I think her theory is that in order to enact progressive change, you can't afford to alienate potential party allies. Bernie is leaning into the intra-Dem polarization whereas Warren is fighting against it. That's why she's mostly reticent to take potshots at other campaigns or their supporters. She's running as the candidate to bring the entire Democratic coalition together under the banner of progressive politics.

Listen, yall need to be cognizant of the fact that the establishment doesn't want Warren. They're gonna cheat her and pot shot her every step of the way. SHE can't speak up, yall can and you can lean in to the angle she chose. "This was a mess, MY candidate got hurt the worst" make some noise and get her some attention. She overachieved and beat Biden, hype her up! She should have gained on the NH polling off that performance, not lost ground to Pete.

 

[King Kreole]

Yeah...this is crazy to me. You think she was the most harmed by this but you're gonna bite your tongue and hope for the best. CNN headlines are meaningless? Nah fam...yall could use Warren's name being thrown into every conversation about winners, who got cheated, etc. leading into the next primary less than a week away. This is just bad strategy to me. I'm glad you can look in the mirror and say "I'm not a conspiracy theorist" but everyone else is playing to win. Warren gave yall the springboard to be her street team. Yall said "we're above this." Good for you, bad for her candidacy. And I'm pissed at this because I think she COULD win, but yall aren't doing her any favors.

I'm personally not biting my tongue, I have multiple posts in here about how Liz got screwed here. I just think there's a difference between critique and conspiracy, and I don't see how Liz jumping around yelling "I've been cheated!" would have gone well for her. It's not about "we're above this" it's about trying to unify the party because this country is sliding in fascism we need all hands on deck.