Official Game of Thrones Season 4 Thread *The North Remembers*(NO SPOILERS!!)

[duncanthetall]

Exactly. Ned says that Dayne was the greatest OF ALL TIME....and Ned lived. No one said he could beat Dayne 1 on 1, that would be silly. But how many people are calling Jamie the GOAT? Zero. Its a different ballgame.

Jamie himself acknowledges that Barristan and the Mountain are better than him, so Jamie isnt even top 2 currently in his own mind despite being the cockiest by far.

And Im fukking retarded for saying Ned would beat him? Where is the evidence for Jamie's undefeatable greatness? All I see is him yapping his mouth. Meanwhile I see Ned overthrowing a whole kingdom and being the only survivor of a battle against 3 kingsguard led by the GOAT (Howland Reed dont count, we know the crannogmen aint about that sword life he probably survived through trickery).

@Mikey2Toes up in here making my whole point about the Jay-Z comparison. Yell it loud enough and people believe you. There aint no question that healthy Jamie was top tier. But to underestimate Ned to the point of calling someone fukking retarded is laughable. The one time the two had a showdown a fakkit with a spear decided to play for Jamie.



@southsideblk the thing you seem to be ignoring is that Jon and Robb have been training their whole lives for swordfighting. You keep putting "with training" in bold letters like there is some sort of super training that could put them on Jamie's level.

You right. I'm wrong for being so disrespectful, for sure. Maybe I think Jaime is better than he really is/was. We'll never know which is a shame. Ned had to be incredible with the sword, for sure. Him being a part of the team that won at the Tower of Joy is better than any accomplishment Jaime has, definitely, especially surviving.

Dunno why I've never been high on Ned's ability. Another reason why we need a Robert's Rebellion prequel

 

[Adam3000]

You right. I'm wrong for being so disrespectful, for sure. Maybe I think Jaime is better than he really is/was. We'll never know which is a shame. Ned had to be incredible with the sword, for sure. Him being a part of the team that won at the Tower of Joy is better than any accomplishment Jaime has, definitely, especially surviving.

Dunno why I've never been high on Ned's ability. Another reason why we need a Robert's Rebellion prequel

There is also the question of what counts as evidence and what doesn't. Ned and Jamie never went toe to toe in the books when Ned got fukked up in the courtyard as a response to Tyrion's kidnapping. But on the show, they went at each other and Jamie had that "OH shyt" look on his face at the end of the fight right before Ned was stabbed in the leg from behind.

Normally in respect to something like sword skills, the word of GRRM is what matters, but GRRM was a producer on the first season of the show, he most definitely had input on putting that battle in there. They seemed to be fairly evenly matched, and Jamie was in his prime while Ned was well past his.

I don't think we will ever get a Robert's Rebellion prequel. The vagueness and mystery of what actually went down is intentional and part of the allure of the series. Possibly after then entire series is complete GRRM might flirt with it, but considering he aint gonna finish the books before he dies anyway we shouldn't get our hopes up.

 

[Malik]

Him and like 7 other nikka's to take on The Sword of the Morning and 2 other Kingsguard. Breh, if Dayne went up against Ned 1 on 1, Catelyn would have been a widow way back. Ned himself said the only reason he's alive is because of Howland Reed. He couldnt have hung with Dayne back then breh.

In regards to Jon becoming a better swordsman....man, I dunno. Who does he have up at the wall to train with that's better than what Jaime had at his age? I don't think the show really does a good enough job of displaying just how fukking dirty Jaime is. This nikka almost had Robb's fukking head outside of Riverrun, and that was AFTER he knew the battle was lost.Actually lol nah. Even saying that Jon is gonna become as great a swordsman as Jaime is ridiculous. Jaimie pre-cut was probably top 3 in the realm. I don't see Jon having skills like that, but shyt, maybe he will get there.

This nikka had been starved by the wolves and kept in chains. He was bloody and weak and battered when he went up against Brienne and STILL almost took her down.

Couple other things. Did ya'll nikkas know that the chick who plays Brienne is actually kinda sorta a bad bytch? I would have never fukking guessed mane. They really ugged her up for the show.

Another thing, this is probably my favorite scene that I dont remember being in the books.



Littlefinger stepped outta pocket for a second. Know your role nikka

7 regular cats on 3 Kingguards sounds pretty fair to me Those 3 Kingguards almost won despite being outnumbered.


The fact Ned Stark even traded blows with Arthur Dayne and didn't get murked out is amazing honestly. Who was Howland Reed? It wasn't like he was a great swordsman either. Dayne was like Jaime Lannister on steroids. Honestly, if it did come down to 1 on 2, Dayne vs Ned/Howland, Dayne should have ripped those two apart rather easily. So either Ned is a better swordsman than you're giving him credit or Howland has some secret magic tricks like his son A personal theory of mine is Howland Reed is a Warg and he warged into Dayne before he could kill Ned....because any other scenario just doesn't make sense

 

[duncanthetall]

7 regular cats on 3 Kingguards sounds pretty fair to me Those 3 Kingguards almost won despite being outnumbered.


The fact Ned Stark even traded blows with Arthur Dayne and didn't get murked out is amazing honestly. Who was Howland Reed? It wasn't like he was a great swordsman either. Dayne was like Jaime Lannister on steroids. Honestly, if it came down 1 on 2, Dayne vs Ned/Howland, Dayne should have ripped those two apart rather easily. So either Ned is a better swordsman than you're giving him credit or Howland has some secret magic tricks like his son A personal theory of mine is Howland Reed is a Warg and he warged into Dayne before he could kill Ned....because any of scenario doesn't make sense

That would be nuts. But we don't know shyt about Howland. I mean I'm only halfway through Feast For Crows and still haven't learned shyt about him.

 

[King Crimson]

Let's be honest Jaime would have given Ned Stark that work if they would have fought Jaime was top 5 swordsman in the realm that honor would have done Ned no good lmao

Catelyn Stark has and always been a HUGE bytch disgusting how she treated Jon Snow when Bran fell out window and to be honest The red wedding doesn't look so bad

Ned Stark should get more shyt for the way he allowed Catelyn to treat Jon Snow he supposed to check her wife or not

You don't realize how many people are never going to see each other again and that's some real life shyt Ned promised Jon when they see each other again he would tell him all about his mother
Robert Baratheon shytted on Jaime every chance he gets lmao

I like this post. I've been rewatching the series looking for foreshadowing and little things that may have escaped me the last time I watched since I was binge-watching and speeding through the series. That being said, I got a few points to counter.
1) I wish there was an official GoT swordsman power ranking (Official as in GRRM put it together himself) . We ought to try coming up with one, but I doubt we'd all be able to agree. To answer your point though, I kind of doubt that Jaime would've given Ned that work. He might have won, but only because it seems that he has a bit of youth on his side (it's hard to tell though because HBO doesn't use the real ages, and rightfully so). While I get that Jaime is seemingly that dude, Ned is no slouch himself and I get the feeling that Ned is the better fighter. And I get that Jaime was Kingsguard, but hasn't it been said that that was more of a power move pulled by Rhaegar Targaryen to keep Tywin Lannister playing ball? Not saying that Jaime's skill isn't sharp, but being Kingsguard shouldn't be the sole mitigating factor that leads us to put him over Ned.

2) Can you really blame Catelyn for treating Jon Snow like trash? As far as she knows, he's the living, breathing proof that Ned was unfaithful to her. It's hard to ask any woman to bear that. You think your ladies would be cool with letting your b*stard seed layup around the house. Aside from that, it seems like Jon was treated well in every other aspect of life. Better than other b*stard children have made out. Plus, if the popular theory surrounding Jon's parentage is true, then Ned had to just fall back and take that L, lest eyebrows be raised.

Jaime would be missing more than just a hand if he went up against Ned. Ned's a viscious warrior and a proven kingsguard slayer. Kept his skills on the low.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" -- Teddy Roosevelt

Jaime is best known for sticking his sword in an unarmed mans back. Should have lost his knighthood for that. He is the Jay-Z of swordsmen.....you tell people you are the greatest enough times and they start to believe you

I laughed. Because its true though.

breh, Jaime is a prodigy with the sword. If you were on the kingsguard you were beyond legit, and he was the youngest ever. He's Lebron status

Its just funny seeing Danerys like this I cant from that speech Khal Drogo gives about taking the throne back for his wife and unborn son I just kept thinking about Tupac and "Ambitionz Of A Ridah" song playing through my head I dont know why





"I will Rape their women and enslave their children tear their broken Gods down and bring them to Vaes Dothrak"

Thank goodness that witch made that nygga a human bean bag I dont think westeros would be able to handle that problem

That Drogo speech got me hyped. I was ready to fukk some shyt up.
@ human bean bag though. You ain't shyt bro.

If the Dothraki made it to Westeros is would be problems for all 7 kingdoms.

The Dothraki would have no advantages in attacking castles. All they would do is rape and sack every town until each lord had to send out their armies to meet them in the open field. And remember at this time Westeros was divided between Lannister support, Renly support, and Stannis support, and Northern support. The Dothraki would take advantage of that, and its not like those enemies would unit against them.

Negative. I don't think they stood a chance. They weren't built for that type of combat. I don't think that Khal Drogo ever even had any intent on going to Westeros. They saw a chump in Viserys and decided to eat off of him while they could.

 

[Microfracture]

Negative. I don't think they stood a chance. They weren't built for that type of combat. I don't think that Khal Drogo ever even had any intent on going to Westeros. They saw a chump in Viserys and decided to eat off of him while they could.

The entire horde that was following Drogo couldn't do any damage? And don't say Jorah killed a Dothraki in his armor as an example. We're talking about that whole horde on horses in the open field. And you saw Drogo give that speech, he was dead serious about crossing the Narrow Sea.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Ned fought Arthur Dayne and lived to talk about it.

sight book info, not sure if spoilers

Spoiler

Ned fought Dayne, Hightower and Darry with like 6 other men and STILL only Ned and Howland Reed survived. Attrition not really skill. Brandon was the better fighter of the two.

 

[King Crimson]

The entire horde that was following Drogo couldn't do any damage? And don't say Jorah killed a Dothraki in his armor as an example. We're talking about that whole horde on horses in the open field. And you saw Drogo give that speech, he was dead serious about crossing the Narrow Sea.

He can serious about whatever he wants, brehda. Doesn't mean he could have done it. I'm no expert in warfare, but I don't think their horse could withstand what seems like tough terrains that are in westeros.

 

[Adam3000]

sight book info, not sure if spoilers

Spoiler

Ned fought Dayne, Hightower and Darry with like 6 other men and STILL only Ned and Howland Reed survived. Attrition not really skill. Brandon was the better fighter of the two.

We know this breh, this is acknowledged. But the fact is, Ned is the only swordsman that survived the battle. Against the GOAT plus two other legit top tier kingsguard. Attrition IS a skill when it comes to swordfighting. If you can wear down your opponent until they make one mistake, nothing else matters. Dayne would have cut Ned down 1 on 1 no doubt about it, but the mere fact that Ned survived long enough for Howland Reed to bail him out actually speaks quite a bit for Ned's skill

 

[Adam3000]

He can serious about whatever he wants, brehda. Doesn't mean he could have done it. I'm no expert in warfare, but I don't think their horse could withstand what seems like tough terrains that are in westeros.

Not to mention their lack of armor. That would have been their downfall. I would take any organized army in Westeros over the Dothraki. Skill and tenacity doesn't trump armor. Steel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flesh

 

[King Crimson]

Not to mention their lack of armor. That would have been their downfall. I would take any organized army in Westeros over the Dothraki. Skill and tenacity doesn't trump armor. Steel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flesh

Exactly. They seemed more suited to raiding and pillaging and blitz warfare/

 

[Malik]

We know this breh, this is acknowledged. But the fact is, Ned is the only swordsman that survived the battle. Against the GOAT plus two other legit top tier kingsguard. Attrition IS a skill when it comes to swordfighting. If you can wear down your opponent until they make one mistake, nothing else matters. Dayne would have cut Ned down 1 on 1 no doubt about it, but the mere fact that Ned survived long enough for Howland Reed to bail him out actually speaks quite a bit for Ned's skill

That point keeps flying over their head. If a you can hold off Mike Tyson long enough in a fistfight for your boy to help you finish him off, that says a lot about you.

 

[DonkeyPuncher718]

I like this post. I've been rewatching the series looking for foreshadowing and little things that may have escaped me the last time I watched since I was binge-watching and speeding through the series. That being said, I got a few points to counter.
1) I wish there was an official GoT swordsman power ranking (Official as in GRRM put it together himself) . We ought to try coming up with one, but I doubt we'd all be able to agree. To answer your point though, I kind of doubt that Jaime would've given Ned that work. He might have won, but only because it seems that he has a bit of youth on his side (it's hard to tell though because HBO doesn't use the real ages, and rightfully so). While I get that Jaime is seemingly that dude, Ned is no slouch himself and I get the feeling that Ned is the better fighter. And I get that Jaime was Kingsguard, but hasn't it been said that that was more of a power move pulled by Rhaegar Targaryen to keep Tywin Lannister playing ball? Not saying that Jaime's skill isn't sharp, but being Kingsguard shouldn't be the sole mitigating factor that leads us to put him over Ned.

2) Can you really blame Catelyn for treating Jon Snow like trash? As far as she knows, he's the living, breathing proof that Ned was unfaithful to her. It's hard to ask any woman to bear that. You think your ladies would be cool with letting your b*stard seed layup around the house. Aside from that, it seems like Jon was treated well in every other aspect of life. Better than other b*stard children have made out. Plus, if the popular theory surrounding Jon's parentage is true, then Ned had to just fall back and take that L, lest eyebrows be raised.



I laughed. Because its true though.

That Drogo speech got me hyped. I was ready to fukk some shyt up.
@ human bean bag though. You ain't shyt bro.


Negative. I don't think they stood a chance. They weren't built for that type of combat. I don't think that Khal Drogo ever even had any intent on going to Westeros. They saw a chump in Viserys and decided to eat off of him while they could.

I feel what you are saying about Cat having to watch JonSnow around winterfell must have had her in her feelings but it aint like Cat got any power she aint Cersei Lannister even Robert was quick to slap that broad when she got out of line Ned should have checked Cat from the jump.

You also bring up Jon parents being a secret and all that if thats the case why not send him with Howland Reed? At least you know you leave him with someone who knows the truth plus he aint going to get shytted on by them Reeds they seem like real cool peoples. Watching season 1 again I never truly realized how bad Jon Snow had it real talk its fukked up what he had to go through in winterfell plus getting suckered into joining the nights watch Jaime AND Tyrion tried to tell Jon Snow the truth but he didnt want to hear it coming from a Lannister plus he was blinded by the fact he was joining something close to the family business

When Tyrion and Jon are traveling to the nights watch and Tyrion breaks down how everyone there are the worst scum with know choice in being there he had his"shyt got real" moment

Jon="They knew. They knew what I was joining and didnt tell me the truth"


Tyrion(paraphrasing) "Tough break breh. Better get used to staring at men all day and being called a b*stard. Better learn to own it"

 

[Black Magisterialness]

We know this breh, this is acknowledged. But the fact is, Ned is the only swordsman that survived the battle. Against the GOAT plus two other legit top tier kingsguard. Attrition IS a skill when it comes to swordfighting. If you can wear down your opponent until they make one mistake, nothing else matters. Dayne would have cut Ned down 1 on 1 no doubt about it, but the mere fact that Ned survived long enough for Howland Reed to bail him out actually speaks quite a bit for Ned's skill

Winning and not dying are two different things. Dayne, Drogo, Jamie in his prime, Selmy...these cats don't need to "survive" a fight....they beat you. And Dayne wasn't worn down, he was overwhelmed. The fact that 3 kingsguard took on 7 of the North's BEST and only 2 survived is a testament to the Kinsguard not the Northmen.

The question was how good of a swordsman Ned was, and for sure he's good. But nowhere near those others. If you got jumped by 3 cats and took out 2 you wouldn't be talking about how good that last dude is...you would talk about how it took 3 of them to take you out.

 

[King Crimson]

I feel what you are saying about Cat having to watch JonSnow around winterfell must have had her in her feelings but it aint like Cat got any power she aint Cersei Lannister even Robert was quick to slap that broad when she got out of line Ned should have checked Cat from the jump.

You also bring up Jon parents being a secret and all that if thats the case why not send him with Howland Reed? At least you know you leave him with someone who knows the truth plus he aint going to get shytted on by them Reeds they seem like real cool peoples. Watching season 1 again I never truly realized how bad Jon Snow had it real talk its fukked up what he had to go through in winterfell plus getting suckered into joining the nights watch Jaime AND Tyrion tried to tell Jon Snow the truth but he didnt want to hear it coming from a Lannister plus he was blinded by the fact he was joining something close to the family business

When Tyrion and Jon are traveling to the nights watch and Tyrion breaks down how everyone there are the worst scum with know choice in being there he had his"shyt got real" moment

Jon="They knew. They knew what I was joining and didnt tell me the truth"


Tyrion(paraphrasing) "Tough break breh. Better get used to staring at men all day and being called a b*stard. Better learn to own it"

I hear you, but I guess Ned being Ned figured that he was better off with family than somewhere else. It may not make sense to us, but Ned seems like a really old school kinda cat.
Co-Sign about them letting him join the watch though. I get the feeling that maybe Robb and the other kids didn't know. I'm pretty sure that Ned and Benjen still see it as an honorable calling though. They sold him the dream.