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Official War With Iran Thread
- Thread starter Berniewood Hogan
- Start date
Where were the leaders of Hamas living?
Israel
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
I was being earnest. I have relatively radical anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist politics that can blind me to seeing the good in warmongers and the American Empire. This is why I take a harsher stance on the Republican Party than most, and why I don’t have a neutered critique of the Democratic Party. It is a legitimate blind spot that has occasionally led me to become too credulous in my support of candidates who have any sort of anti-war potential, most recently example being my stanning of Kamala's campaign because she gave super vague signals early on that she would be a change to the status quo of American warmongering.
Good posters can disagree (in fact, that's the basis of good discourse). I'm by no means above reproach. All I ask is for the disagreement to be well-reasoned and in good-faith.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
I'm glad you think it's fine to criticize Democratic leadership for their response to this crisis. But there are many here who don't.
As for the immediate pivot, I personally didn't see anyone do that. My recollection of the immediate aftermath of the strikes was people unanimously condemning Trump. But where we perhaps disagree is in the utility of staying on the topic of condemning Trump vs also looking towards the opposition party who allegedly represents us to see what they're saying and doing.
IYKYK 
Today is tough for those who didn’t expect there to be consequences to what Iran is doing
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
JD Vance needs a kick in the head
So do the Pakistan political leadership
www.bbc.com
Hours later…
So do the Pakistan political leadership
Pakistan plans to nominate Trump for Nobel Peace Prize
Islamabad says Trump helped end recent fighting with India, but New Delhi denies he played any role.
www.bbc.com
Hours later…
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
This is genuinely some of the worst cope I have ever seen in my life.
"A failed aggressor is still the aggressor."
"A failed aggressor is still the aggressor."
Bio
you not beating those allegations 
Hood Critic
The Power Circle
All this "the Dems are p*ssies" but fist pumping a series of soft shoe strikes around the "edges" of an Iranian facilities?
Everything from the waste of fuel to the justifications around this are embarassing.
Everything from the waste of fuel to the justifications around this are embarassing.
I have no problem with the criticism of Dem leadership, you can even find some in my posting history and I'm not even American. The sub is indeed sometimes circle jerky but we shouldn't fall in constant relativism either.
My issue with the Kamala/Biden hypotheticals is how can you say what they would have done if they didn't do it when they could ? Cricizing for their handling of Gaza, Lebanon or Yemen, sure. But Iran ?
Analyzing the causes that led to today is fine but realistically all major escalations were done by Trump (and Israel... and also Iran not being truthful on its nuclear program)
- JCPOA unilateral exit (blindsiding Euros and Iran)
- IRGC put on the terrorist org list
- Soleimani assassination
- Israel's strike on the Iranian embassy in Damascus (without US approval, stated by both Israeli and US !)
- Rising Lion and decimation of IRGC chain of command
- The bombing on Fordow
Please tell me which action Obama or Biden took that is even remotely close to that because there is a solid track record of Ds doing everything they can NOT to have military action there so much that Nap has always hated Ds handling of Iran and he's likely on their payroll lol
- Obama signing of the JCPOA
- Several rounds of (failed) negotiations from 2021 to 2024 after the JCPAO exit made further agreements harder
- The prisonner exchanges in 2023 despite the Iranian plans to assassinate Pompeo
- It took France and English pressure for the US to back the IAEA resolution of last year's june 5th and Macron was telling Biden was stalling it
Once again, I'm fine with criticizing Ds but the chain of events bringing us to Rising Lion and Fordow bombing is absolutely not on them this time.
Obama put the West/Iran on the right path with JCPAO, it was not perfect but it was good enough as a start and should have led to continued efforts to improve it.
The current situations (including Ukraine) can even be argued to be a direct domino effect off Trump pulling out of JCPAO :
- It prevented Euros to negotiate with Iran because they were too scared of US sanctions if they did business
- It made Euros irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and gave Putin the evidence he needed that Euros were US lapdogs
- It put Iran's back against the wall, isolating it furthermore in the ME (it was at odds with Saudi Arabia already since 2016) and the world and it led to more and more sanctions on its economy
- Iran was basically pushed into Russia's arms (not that it needed that push but still, giving them options is always best)
- With an economy in ruins, Iranian officers became more easy to bribe which Mossad used to their advantage to Rising Lion's sucess
Obviously, not everything was that simple but this move created a rift that was totally unnecessary.
- Several rounds of (failed) negotiations from 2021 to 2024 after the JCPAO exit made further agreements harder
- The prisonner exchanges in 2023 despite the Iranian plans to assassinate Pompeo
- It took France and English pressure for the US to back the IAEA resolution of last year's june 5th and Macron was telling Biden was stalling it
Once again, I'm fine with criticizing Ds but the chain of events bringing us to Rising Lion and Fordow bombing is absolutely not on them this time.
Obama put the West/Iran on the right path with JCPAO, it was not perfect but it was good enough as a start and should have led to continued efforts to improve it.
The current situations (including Ukraine) can even be argued to be a direct domino effect off Trump pulling out of JCPAO :
- It prevented Euros to negotiate with Iran because they were too scared of US sanctions if they did business
- It made Euros irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and gave Putin the evidence he needed that Euros were US lapdogs
- It put Iran's back against the wall, isolating it furthermore in the ME (it was at odds with Saudi Arabia already since 2016) and the world and it led to more and more sanctions on its economy
- Iran was basically pushed into Russia's arms (not that it needed that push but still, giving them options is always best)
- With an economy in ruins, Iranian officers became more easy to bribe which Mossad used to their advantage to Rising Lion's sucess
Obviously, not everything was that simple but this move created a rift that was totally unnecessary.