Old heads, what was big and pac's presence in the music scene like when they were alive?

[intilectual recipricol]

Thug Life is my favorite Pac album, but at it being much bigger than Illmatic.

Illmatic was the most critically acclaimed album of '94, it didn't got Plat immediately because it was Nas debut, East Coast wasn't selling like that, and it didn't have great promotion. Most people felt Nas deserved lyricist of the year. People knew Illmatic, and Nas was highly respected. I remember the first time I heard One Love, red light on my block bumping out a whip the xylophone had me with my ear to the window.


Pac wasn't huge initially, stop fronting Pac stans. Snoop had the biggest movement in the West Coast, Dre, Eazy, Cube, Cypress Hill, Coolio and others were all bigger than Pac from 91 to 94. Pac's early stuff was socially consious, and had good lyrics but the beats were garbage for the most part. Biggie was a star out the gate, and I would say the most popular MC on the East Coast. Wu was huge and they were all eating, Bone Thugs was huge. Pac at his peak was bigger than Big tho. I roll with Big more, and always felt like Pac was overrated. Pac stans act like Pac dropped nothing but classics, when not a single one of his albums has universal critical acclaim.

Both Pac and Big, especially Pac have had their legacies enhanced by their deaths nobody deny that shyt. Neither is the GOAT IMO.

As much as Jay-Z haters like to say Reasonable Doubt isn't classic, the Source changed their rating from 4 to 5 Mics because Jay influenced the too the same thing happened with Pac's album. MATW got 4 Mics initially, and in '02 it was changed to 5.

Lil Kim got a 5 out the gates. No one ever said Pac was the GOAT out the gates or even the biggest, thats you making a strawman argument. Truth is I cant even find someone that has Illmatic, let alone rate it, and I dont know a nikka that doesnt call Pac's last 3 classics. its always some EC dummies runnin back to the magazines when the whole coastal beef revolved around coastal bias.

to summarize, I dont know anyone with illmatic.
Everyone I know thinks Pac has at least 3 classics.

 

[god shamgod]

im not understanding this thread, its like every person in here is making quasi sense but then they fukk it up with some nonsense statement\

from same song to 1995, pac was a moderately successful rapper

he was NOT an upper echelon rapper. there were countless rappers who were bigger than pac from 91-94, snoop, dre, eazy, cube, cool j, wu tang, warren g, etc

This is a fact and basically what I've been saying

 

[The_King_of_Everything]

Lil b is tupac reincarnated

 

[ISO]

Lil Kim got a 5 out the gates. No one ever said Pac was the GOAT out the gates or even the biggest, thats you making a strawman argument. Truth is I cant even find someone that has Illmatic, let alone rate it, and I dont know a nikka that doesnt call Pac's last 3 classics. its always some EC dummies runnin back to the magazines when the whole coastal beef revolved around coastal bias.

to summarize, I dont know anyone with illmatic.
Everyone I know thinks Pac has at least 3 classics.

Tupac stans act like he was god and ran hip hop while he was alive, they act like he released nothing but classics when his first three joints were 3.5 out of 5 joints. You don't know nobody who owns Illmatic? You realize it's a Platinum selling album with over a 1.5M copies sold?

Tupac doesn't even have a top 3 album out the West Coast and he's considered the GOAT? Foh.

 

[Techniec]

Tupac stans act like he was god and ran hip hop while he was alive, they act like he released nothing but classics when his first three joints were 3.5 out of 5 joints. You don't know nobody who owns Illmatic? You realize it's a Platinum selling album with over a 1.5M copies sold?

Tupac doesn't even have a top 3 album out the West Coast and he's considered the GOAT? Foh.

he was the king of rap before he died tho

 

[Techniec]

among the hip hop media establishment, cac hipsters and the ny underground, pac doesnt have an established universal classic

in real life though, his last 3 were.

 

[Kimo_bud]

Bone thugs was as big as pac and way more popular than biggie

 

[DaveyDave]

Lil Kim got a 5 out the gates. No one ever said Pac was the GOAT out the gates or even the biggest, thats you making a strawman argument. Truth is I cant even find someone that has Illmatic, let alone rate it, and I dont know a nikka that doesnt call Pac's last 3 classics. its always some EC dummies runnin back to the magazines when the whole coastal beef revolved around coastal bias.

to summarize, I dont know anyone with illmatic.
Everyone I know thinks Pac has at least 3 classics.

Lil Kim didnt get a 5 out the gate

 

[thatrapsfan]

I got to disagree my dude. I'm from the UK and let me tell you Pac & Big were HUGE in the UK, everyone f*cked with if not both, one of them. Before their deaths there was huge debate over who was the best. Dudes were legitimately not f*ckin with other artists because of certain beefs.

I can remember exactly where i was and what i was doing when i heard Pac died. I'd just finished basketball practice and we were about to go to the outdoor courts, one of our peoples ran across the road "Yo Pac is dead"

The silence was deafening all the way to the outdoor courts. N*ggaz was shook.

 

[Depreciating Asset]

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

put it like this:

'91-92: pac was a cool new rapper. moderate success, like dude said. "Brenda's got a baby" was big. then JUICE came out and catapulted him. setting him up for the next album..

'93: calling his success moderate would be an understatement. by the end of the year, he was a household name, right up there with snoop, dre & cube in name value. he was a main eventer. just not quite a serious threat to the throne. his only problem is that he didn't have THAT album. his singles were still completely over-shadowing his albums, which were like 4th in his clergy system behind the acting & legal trouble as well.

'94: his name got even bigger. "keep ya head up" and also mc breed's "gotta get mine"(which I dont think anybody even mentioned in here) were still wreckin shop. "above the rim" came out, and of course he had his biggest incidents that year. people chitting on thug life in here, but it was an under-promoted group album. nobody expected it to do big numbers.

'95: pac drops THAT album. and he did it in grand fashion. making history by having the 1st #1 album while being incarcerated. this is when pac became PAC.

'96: you already know, as soon as he came home it was a wrap. we'll probably never see a rapper have a year like that again. and the scary part is he lived out less than 75% of it.

How the hell you gonna pick and choose who counts and who doesn't? What kind of bullshyt logic is that? Coolio was a rapper. Domino was considered a rapper.

dog, everybody in the thread done already said coolio doesn't count like that. same with the fugees.

if domino is a rapper, then I guess nate dogg is too. besides, domino wasn't bigger than 2pac in any facet.

Lil Kim didnt get a 5 out the gate

yes she did.
"naked truth". the album where maino was like the lead writer. "put ya lighters up" was the hit single.

dave mayes was dating her manager.

 

[Danie84]

All jokes aside, I really saw Pac as a super Black hero
Then he had to stomp out Orlando after the Tyson fight, then it was all she wrote

 

[ISO]

he was the king of rap before he died tho

No doubt.

among the hip hop media establishment, cac hipsters and the ny underground, pac doesnt have an established universal classic

in real life though, his last 3 were.

You can call them classics, but their pretty weak classics. You gonna compare MATW to The Chronic, Doggystyle, Death Certificate, Cuban Linx, Illmatic, The Infamous? All much better albums top to bottom and more cohesive albums, all with better production (except Death Certificate).

 

[powerpainpleasure]

on the east coast biggie reigned supreme with the rap thing. at the time east coast felt they had got their mojo back with biggie morphing into his frank white personae and showing that east coast got get fly like that. remember the south was non existent back then so the sun, sea, sand & sex was being personified by biggie and puff boating & lear jetting off even thou brooklyn knows nothing abt that environment. biggie ran ish. it was the reason why nas changed up his personae to escobar coz that grimey ish was no longer part of the rap landscape/

the point made abt pac being a joke in the b?ack community was true certainly on the east coast. I saw pac at nell's bar new york. dude was waaaaay out of his league on the street ish, which he should never have involved himself. dude's family political background was gangsta enough and he should have stayed in that lane. musically, when AEOM dropped he had the game in a chokehold. but even up to his death people saw him as a little doggies with a bark must worse than his bite. what couldnt be denied tho was pac was able to sp?t the realest ish he eva wrote coz Suge was an absolute monster in the rap game. It's hard for young uns to comprehends how fearsome dude was. like in the UK djs wouldnt even get on the phone to interview him between 92-96. Even back then the uk was no joke when it came to robbing US rap acts but when it came to Suge it was like dude doesn't need to be over there!!! Lol Pac sold 5 mill in 96. that's str8 phenomenal.

biggie v pac was the heavyweight championship bout. the way mags ran the beef it was inevitable that it would end in fatal bloodshed. pac's demise wasn't a surprise coz Suge was personified as The Devi? himself, so it was only gonna end one way. Suge ate up his time, he took the loss of his empire, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's still collecing checks somehow.

biggie's 187 was more surprising coz it was 6 months after pac died, and people were like as long as dude suppresses any anger from the west coast and keeps low he'll be aight. stoopid phat phuck takes himself to vegas and the rest is history.

on the real

 

[jilla82]

Anyone that can sit here and say that by 96 Pac didnt run rap is a God damn lie.

I know it was different in NY cuz yall was really hating on anything not out of NYC back in those days...but the Midwest, South, and West were Pacs grounds. Pre 96 he still had a huge following...

How could this video be made when he was in jail? Off of the love the industry had for him



Brendas Got a Baby? I Get Around?? Keep Ya Head Up? Those were huge hits!!