Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Edwards is playing PG this season and sees himself as a PG
This may be the Knicks future PG if they can get him
Has some nice passes in the clip
I know the Antman is listed as a SG but I think an Antman/RJ backcourt works if Antman can shoot
If he can, that back court may be unstoppable
Could be a 1a/1b situation where both guys could be 25+ ppg scorers

 

[Yaddam Yussein]

OT, but meanwhile in Jamaica Ave.

Tears in my eyes bruh

 

[GunRanger]

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Might as well make this the Official NBA thread since everybody's fans want to post in here too, fukk it

They come in this thread and go off like other teams come to the garden and go off on the knicks too

Mjknicks

• NY's #1 Draft Pick
• May 5, 2015

 

[Morethan1]

Just pointing out why YOU in HERE and I'm comfortable not hitting up your thread. Y'all do have a thread right?

p*ssy nikka can't take joke's?

I'm out until yall next loss

 

[RickyGQ]

Which is why he was a waste of a draft pick that high. Knicks really passed on the hometown kid in Donovan.



1) Nobody brought up Zo or DSJ. 2) Frank is this "superb, elite defender" yet the Bulls backcourt dropped a cool 50 on em.

Frank didn’t have his best game defensively either. But the Knicks switch a lot. 75% of those weren’t actually scored on him to be fair.

 

[RickyGQ]

The Frank hatred is to deflect from insecurities about Randle. Probably make more sense to blame the coach since Randle at least statistically regressed going from the Pelicans to the Knicks. I didnt see many Pelicans games last year but it does appear Gentry put him in a better position to succeed (or at the very least a better position to pad his stats more efficiently) then Fiztales has

Mitch is missed alot. If Fiz still has his job by the time money comes back he should look to feature Mitch alot, he gets us easy baskets while protecting both the interior and the perimeter

When you can get easy baskets consistently from a center that excels in the pick and roll it makes the game alot easier. Its what Deandre Jordan has done for his career and what Tyson Chandler did for us earlier this decade.

Mitch needs to start and be involved. Spacing wouldnt be a problem with him and Randle if Julius was to speed up some of his iso's, and perhaps be more calculated as opposed to his freestyle approach where it looks like hes making it up as he goes along. Sometimes he passes well, other times he has it set in his mind hes gonna get a shot up and somehow fails to recognize hes being doubled and gets out of control

The right coach could get more out of Julius and mold him into being more calculated and less turnover prone. I dont believe theres much hope for him defensively

Both Morris and Randle can have too much of a superstar mentality sometimes, Randle almost all the time. Both of them need to defer to the younger players more, Barrett in particular

the wild shyt is, i don’t actually think Julius sucks. He clearly tries hard for the most part and you can tell he wants to do well. But he just doesn’t fit on this team and it’s painfully obvious. He needs to be surrounded by shooters and defenders for him to be the most effective. And like I’ve been saying, the problem with this team isn’t the talent, it’s how the talent is dispersed. Our best 5 players don’t mesh well at all. Randle needs spacing just like RJ needs spacing. DSJ and Trier need the ball to be effective. Morris is a bit of a ball hog but at least he contributes points so you need him in lineups with guys who won’t need the call as much. Some guys are gonna have to just be the odd men out.
Frank
Dot
RJ
Morris
Mitch
This is the starting lineup. With Morris and Randle we just buy ourselves time until Fiz wisely subs Morris our early cause he knows they can’t play together. So why not just bring Randle off the bench. Let him run against second units like he did in NO. Surround him with Payton, Ellington, Knox and Taj. Payton and Randle have great chemistry, Taj can cover for him on defense, Ellington is a solid defender and floor spacer and Randle and Knox have a decent one two game as well. I promise you if the team plays well, nobody will care we signed Randle to 23 million as a super sixth man

 

[RickyGQ]

Edwards is playing PG this season and sees himself as a PG
This may be the Knicks future PG if they can get him
Has some nice passes in the clip
I know the Antman is listed as a SG but I think an Antman/RJ backcourt works if Antman can shoot
If he can, that back court may be unstoppable
Could be a 1a/1b situation where both guys could be 25+ ppg scorers

My top 3 are Cole, Edwards and Hampton for now.

With Edwards and Hampton, i wouldn’t mind seeing Frank continue to develop and stay the starting pg and drafting either of those two at the shooting guard position and sliding RJ to his natural position at the 3 with Knox and Mitch.
A starting lineup of all Knicks drafted players... have we ever seen that?!?

 

[ISO]

I'm not campaigning for Fiz to be fired...but I'm actively noting some of the head-scratching decisions he's making en route to what appears to be a losing season. Tonight's game wasn't devoid of them.

A couple of y'all (including you) tried to call me out about my wondering why DSJ was still on the court. I'll take this opportunity to show you and @seemorecizzy the difference.

Game 1 of the season. All 3 of our point guards hadn't impressed in the preseason, so none of them started. We start the game slow with RJ as our starting point guard expectedly. So Fiz understandably brings Dennis in in the first quarter. We still aren't really playing great. End the first down 7. He brings in Elfrid as the game starts to get a little out of hand in the second. We sort of make a run. We end the half down 8. So for a full half Knicks are losing, and our 21 year old defensive point guard still hasn't seen a minute. If you're of the belief that we should be developing these guys while trying to figure out who should be in the rotation, in a situation where at best only one point guard has maybe shone in a game...I'm not sure you should be holding out the only point guard who plays good defense for a full half.

But okay, Fizdale has already done this. The Knicks make a run...take the lead...lose the lead....regain the lead...Fiz decides to put Frank in with 2:32 left in the third. Knicks are leading by 4. Spurs cut it to 2, Taj turns it over, Frank steals the ball, Frank gets his layup blocked, Knox hits a layup, RJ fouls Rudy gay, Frank turns the ball over.......by the time the quarter ends the Knicks are still leading by 1. The fourth quarter starts, Frank turns the ball over again causing a layup which he fouls on. Frank gets subbed out after nearly 3 minutes. He never sees the game again. While Frank has been in the game the Knicks 4 point lead turns into a 2 point deficit.

Fast Forward to tonight

Frank starts....Knicks are playing somewhat well to start the game....they're shooting ok, they're passing the ball, and most importantly they're not embarassing themselves on defense. With 3:04 left in the FIRST quarter, Fizdale brings in our previously struggling young point guard. I'm not mad at it. We need DSJ playing well if our fortunes are to turn around. At this point the Knicks are up by 4 (just like they were when Frank entered the Spurs game at the end of the 3rd quarter). FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE QUARTER THE KNICKS DON'T SCORE A SINGLE POINT. To make matters worse....they gave up 12 straight points.

Do I have to point out the significant difference here? If Frank comes in the game and all of a sudden the Knicks stop scoring for 3 minutes while the other team scores 12 straight fukking points, I'M GONNA BE ASKING FOR HIM TO COME OUT THE GAME.

But of course Dennis doesn't come out the game. He continues to play to begin the 2nd Quarter. By the time Dennis Smith leaves the court in the second quarter, the Bulls 30-22 lead has swelled to 36-24 before a Kevin Knox 3 pointer makes it a respectable 9. Yes fam....the Knicks 4 point lead in the first when Dennis came in turned into a 12 point deficit 12 seconds before he comes off the court. Is it only his fault...no, but he was a main contributor to this with his lackluster defense. Dennis' contributions during his 6 (!!!) minute stint in the first half. 3 turnovers, 1 foul, 1 missed layup. Dennis came back in the second half and played better.

Now reading this, tell me you don't see a difference here. I didn't sugarcoat anything for Frank...but it's clear that he gets handled differently even when his mistakes are not as costly as when his peers do the same thing. Frank didn't see a single minute in the game after the Spurs game despite DSJ arguably playing just as bad. Dennis got 4 minutes against the Nets and scored 1 point). Frank played 18.1 seconds to end the first half in the game afterwards against Boston. Dennis played 11 minutes, had 0 points, 1 assists and 2 turnovers.

I don't think there's any question whether Dennis Smith is playing in the next game and there shouldn't be. Dennis needs to play just like Frank should've played in the first three games. But if we're gonna make an emphasis on defense, then Frank needs to stop getting the short leash permanently. If you're gonna give Frank a short leash, then you have to give guys who are doing bullshyt like Randle and Marcus Morris a short leash too. If Frank is gonna get a short leash when he makes a mistake that leads to a 6 point swing, then you CAN NOT leave Dennis out there for an entire 16 point swing.

I hope this illuminates the difference that you guys pretend you don't see.

Different circumstances breh.

 

[seemorecizzy]

ill argue with fellow knick fans cause we want da same thing at the end of da day. but all you haters that are just in here to troll get the up outta here

 

[WaveMolecules]

Cant get rid of Fiz.

Mills and Perry need to go.

 

[Miles Davis]

Cant get rid of Fiz.

Mills and Perry need to go.

Everyone.

 

[storyteller]

With their back against the wall, the Knicks gave a spirited effort for about 3 quarters before completely collapsing and losing in a blowout to another lottery bound opponent. The Bulls bludgeoned the Knicks 120-102 off the back of Coby White's lights out fourth quarter that was sparked when NY inexplicably used its 4 worst defenders simultaneously. There's plenty of blame to go around here though. The Front Office created a logjam of bigs but didn't add a single shot protector in case Mitchell Robinson isn't available. The coach employed a zone defense for far too long and tried to use it to sneak a terrible defensive line-up out there for a few minutes and then he waited too long to pull that broken unit before it gave away any semblance of momentum New York might have. The highest paid new veterans combined to go 11/32 shooting with 4 assists to 8 turnovers. Returning youth that has shown promise so far regressed to being one-way players without any signs of two-way potential. The only bright spots were RJ Barrett and Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis getting a season low in minutes played. Let's go dumpster diving and try to find some value in the mess...

Ntilikina: For the entire first half, Frank Ntilikina offered the kind of impact defense that can make up for his quiet offensive output. He was virtually everywhere on the defensive end, not only stopping his own man but managing to cheat off his man for deflections and strips as a help defender. But it didn't last. In the second half, he gave up a rare blow by and then the Knicks employed a zone defense that muted his best tools.

To make matters worse, this a regression to the mean offensively for Frank. The young PG was deferential to the point that 2 of his only 4 attempts came as a result of the clock winding down. He damn near only attacked when there was no other choice. Frank managed 3 points, 4 assists to 2 TO's and 3 steals in 29 minutes. That's not enough for his defense to make up for and especially frustrating when the Randle and Morris show is looking like an unmitigated disaster. He needs to demand the ball if nothing else.

That said, I do way too much Frank focus in this loss. The team lost by 18, Frank played 29 minutes, the Knicks outscored the Bulls by 2 while he was on the floor. This doesn't mean he played well, but it does mean that he was far from the biggest problem on the Knicks. Frank's potential is as a lockdown defender and complimentary offensive player, expecting him to propel an offense as the fourth or fifth option at any given time is as bad as asking Fizdale to make this roster a playoff competitor.

Barrett: If it weren't for RJ Barrett, Knicks fans might join the global protest movement that's been happening. Barrett kept the offense above water for most of the night and the team was best served with the ball in RJ's hands. Barrett went 8/16 from the field, 2/4 from three and 3/6 from the free throw line in route to a 21 point, 9 assist, 2 turnover, 6 rebound and 2 steal performance. When his shot is falling, the kid is unstoppable and willing to demand touches. He once again helped Randle to show his potential value; all it took was making Randle the roll man in pick and roll situations.

Defensively, Barrett continues to be ahead of the curve for rookies. He's going to have lapses and off nights, but he has been reliably the Knicks second best perimeter defender on most nights. He's where all of the hopes have to rest after a night like last. The lottery pick is already a two-way player with upside on both ends. When his jumper is more consistent and his experience on the defensive end improves his awareness, the kid can be a problem on both ends.

And since this is one of the rare bright spots, let's add one more touch...while the free throw struggles are bad, I have zero worries about him improving from the stripe. The fact that he's gotten to the line 6 times or more in 5 out of 6 games this month is a promising sign that his scoring and efficiency can pick up a notch just from improved FT shooting.

Morris: Marcus Morris started the game in a struggle session. He shot his way to a respectable statline but it came at the expense of a ton of turnovers and inefficient shooting overall. Mook went 6/17 overall and 3/9 from three in route to 22 points, 9 boards, 1 assist and 6 TO's. It wasn't pretty.

For Morris the main problem is that when the offense stagnates, he's the most reliable bad shot maker. That means that on a night when the offense is stagnant for the majority of the time, he's going to be taking a lot of ugly shots. He could respond by trying to be more of a playmaker but that's a stylistic change that he's not used to. He's still far and away my favorite of the three bigs being asked to step into bigger roles than they've had before (Morris, Randle, Portis). At least he plays defense.

Randle: If I'm looking for a brightspot in his night, it's that Julius Randle spun into traffic less which helped reduce turnovers. The offense isn't geared toward any of Julius Randle's strengths at all. Far too often, he's working from the perimeter off of stagnant action while players with subpar shooting try to spread the floor without cutting. Randle does flash his value whenever the Knicks make a concerted effort to get him the ball in motion.

The 20 million dollar man had 17 points, 6 boards, 3 assists to 2 TO's and 2 steals over 37 minutes. He shot 5/15 from the field and just 1/5 from three which continues to be worrisome. The three ball is gonna be important for Randle since defenders are content to drop off of him and trust that he'll fumble the ball after two to three dribbles. The simple solution is to either shoot the ball or move with a mind to open up passing options rather than driving headlong into the entire opposing defense. The forces are Randle's fault for sure, he simply hasn't adjusted. That said, his teammates and coach could throw him a bone by getting him into situations where he receives the ball in motion or face-up closer to the rim.

The proof is in the pudding too. Randle had a much stronger first half thanks to RJ Barrett attacking pick and roll situations with Randle as the screen man. Ntilikina and Gibson's defense in the first half also helped produce a ton of transition opportunities for guys and Randle was able to pick up some finishes just off of running the floor well. He's not broken, he's just more of a third option than a first. Then again, a third option ought to provide some defense to help his case.

Gibson: Taj Gibson is really starting to look like the guy I hoped he could be for us. That would be a glue piece who provides veteran presence and makes sure everyone is where they need to be on either end of the floor. Gibson sets by far the best screens on the team, has really mastered the midrange pick and pop and also doesn't force anything. Last night, he also avoided any offensive foul TO's.

Taj put up 17 points, 5 boards, 2 assists and 2 steals on 8/10 shooting. He was crucial to the interior defense holding up as well. Most important of all though, Taj simply fits this team's needs more than Bobby Portis. Portis has struggled offensively and been brutal to watch defensively. Taj provides a much better complimentary option to the offensive minded big Julius Randle or the space needing big Mitchell Robinson. Add in that Gibson is the only big man consistently drawing contact on screens and he's also helping ball handlers more than any other screen man.

Smith: The Knicks need a second PG desperately and Dennis Smith Jr could fill that void but it's obvious that he's still miles away from the potential we saw last season or with Dallas. Smith was mostly out of sorts offensively, going 0/3 in 14 minutes and posting 0 points, 2 assists to 3 TO's and adding 2 steals. But there's at least one piece from his play that gave me a silver lining...

In the second half, DSJ took the ball end to end at full speed and blew by everybody. When defenders met him at the rim, he kicked the ball to Taj Gibson for an easy finish. It was this burst of speed that finally got Smith Jr to at least start utilizing his athleticism. He was still out of sorts but I counted at least three times where his easy hops made an appearance along with generally faster play on the ball. That's baby steps, but the game will come much easier if he's playing like the fastest guy on the court...which he usually is.

But I won't mince words either. The TO's were ugly, the shot selection continues to show that his instincts haven't come back and his defense has been a complete disappointment. You can live with DSJ figuring things out offensively as long as he's not completely hamstrung on defense. Right now...he's completely hamstrung on defense. The two steals did show that his effort is there but they came with 4 fouls in 14 minutes. That is to say, he's defending much more his hands and by trying to cheat lanes than he is by sticking to his fundamentals. So I'm seeing a path to getting the offense back but he's gotta give me more on the defensive end.

Dot: Damyean Dotson didn't pair very well with Smith off the bench and by the time he got a bit of offensive rhythm, his play time was up. Dot played just 13 minutes, going 2/5 from the field and 1/3 from the three point line. The former second round pick added 5 points and 4 boards in his minutes which isn't bad but also isn't anything to write home about. It's been an odd season for the guy, he lost prep time to shoulder surgery and inconsistent playing time has made it harder to gauge where he's at.

Let's start with the most important factor for our SG's right now. Dot's spacing the floor pretty well. He doesn't move as well as Ellington off the ball, but he also doesn't force the three whenever he receives the ball in motion. If the shot isn't there (and with the Knicks' spacing it often isn't), Dot will dribble or swing the ball. That means Dotson's taking a lot less three's than Ellington but he's knocking them down at a more efficient clip. So Dotson is more efficient but takes and makes far less three's. That's the catch-22 right now.

Trier: Of every Knick on the team, I've had the biggest problem with how Fizdale has handled Allonzo Trier. Zo's minutes and role never seem to reflect his prior performance, so after posting 13 and 2 in just 16 minutes against Cleveland; we got Allonzo Trier playing 5 minutes in the late third and early fourth for 0 points, 1 assist, 1 board and 1 TO.

The caveat is that Trier only fits in with certain backcourt pairings. DSJ is a bad combo for him since both guys need the ball to impact the game and neither guy has played anything close to respectable defense this year (to his credit, Iso has shown better effort there recently imo). Still, it has to be confusing to be so productive one night and then flirt with a DNP right after.

 

[storyteller]

Knox: The improvements on offense continue to show for Kevin Knox. He shot 50% from three (2/4) and picked up 4 assists by making heads up plays on his drives. Overall Knox went 3/7 shooting for 10 points, 4 assists and 3 boards in 32 minutes. That's solid production from a sophomore prospect off the bench...

But he's gonna have to remain on the bench if his defense continues to regress to the mean. In the first quarter, Knox flashed some defensive upside on a couple of plays but it was entirely downhill from there. He was victimized off the dribble and dragged too far from his man off the ball. It's a combination of lacking concentration, slow footwork exacerbated by poor footwork and bad instincts that creep up the longer he's out there. The kid is extremely helpful to the offense as a whole. He spaces the floor, has grown into a willing passer and has improved his handle enough to drive without so many TO's...but the defense will hold him back.

Iggy: Not a whole lot to glean from 2 minutes of play. He attempted a three and missed, that was it. I need to watch back his Westchester game for a real evaluation.

Portis: If you've read the entirety of this recap thank you, I appreciate you...and also you already know that Bobby Portis has hit my last nerve. It feels like Fizdale has to choose between Randle getting significant minutes or Portis; but this team is doomed if both guys are getting huge chunks of time. Portis, by virtue of being worse on both ends of the floor than Randle, becomes the obvious odd man out. Last night, Bobby put up 7 points, 3 boards and 1 assist to 1 TO in 19 minutes. He shot 3/9 from the field, 1/3 from three and was tough to watch for most of the night.

Whether it was showboating to get a T after his first made basket or no-showing on defense constantly, Portis hurt the Knicks in every which way. He's the worst defender on a team full of bad defenders and he didn't even provide the spacing or rebounding that can sometimes make up for his shortcomings. The single biggest improvement for the Knicks rotation right now will be benching Portis when Mitchell Robinson gets back. I just hope Robinson returns before I put my remote through a TV.

Fizdale: It's easy to look at the roster and put the blame for the Knicks' woes on everybody else. That is, as long as you ignore when he does things like playing DSJ, Trier, Knox and Portis all at once during a close fourth quarter game. Some mistakes are just obvious and inexplicably bad. The zone felt gimmicky last season and only makes sense now because Fizdale is trotting out a rotation that still relies on subpar defenders who aren't carrying their weight offensively anyway. A big man rotation of Morris/Randle/Gibson would be fine but undersized until Mitch gets back to fill it out...but it'd be better than force feeding us Bobby Portis.

Perimeter defenders like DSJ, Zo and Knox need to have help defenders on the floor and nearby. You can't put those three out there together period and you can't put two out there without two quality defenders on the floor to cover for them (and also communicate with them off ball). This isn't rocket science and it's not impossible to achieve. One of those guys may have to sit (DSJ or Zo) but the remaining two will look like better players and hopefully pick up better habits surrounded by smarter play.

That's not to say that it would turn this team around. No, that seems to be the strawman accusation people throw at any Knicks fan who dares to claim this team is better than losing by 20 to non-playoff rosters. What we're looking for competitive play. Losing by 8 in a game where they fight hard from end to end would be far less discouraging than these blowouts have been. You can see how discouraging it is too. I don't think Fiz has lost his locker room but the players start to seem helpless out there nonetheless. The effort is ugly and guys are forcing things instead of trusting what system is in place or what teammates are around them. You can blame the players and front office, they deserve it too...but Fizdale is culpable as well. He's no martyr just because he isn't the only problem with the team.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

So I was wondering, Brett brown from the 76ers has been with them since like 2013 and they endured 4 straight losing seasons and tanked. They stuck with him and showed continuity and eventually found picks that thrived. hes improved as a coach and the sixers have now become a playoff team and one of the favorites to go to the finals. Do you think our fanbase or front office has the patience to go through this? 4 coaches since brett brown has been in philly shows no continuity on our part. I mean the media doesn’t make it any better but I think we should def continue to build through the draft(find a point guard) Trade the veterans for picks when we can and find the right pieces. DEVELOP YOUR PICKS!!! That means Mitch, RJ, Knox, Frank, trier, Dotson, brazdeikis should all get precedence!