Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
All of the young players have regressed outside of Frank, it's time to focus on player development and salvage something out of the season.
Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread
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seemorecizzy
Superstar
frank looks like way better.
stronger, faster, and makin quicker decisions. he did not have that the previous 2 years. he still doesnt have it consistently now. he put on some weight in da off season and really worked on his game.
knox mitch etc are in their second year so they are gonna have ups and downs.i also dont think they are as good as you think.
knox has improved his shooting. hes shootin differently and its more effective. mitch is pretty much playin da same way as last year, bigs usually take longer to develop.
all in all, i dont believe in 19 years just showing up to our team or in the nba in general and being "great" at anything. there are some exceptions, but none on our team lol
the nba is completely different game. you cant say whenever they do good its of their own doing and when they do bad its a development issue lol
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
He's worse defensively than most of them. Wayne Ellington is still a better defender than Knox although I agree that if he (and Portis) aint hitting shots then he don't need to be on the court. Wayne does still help offensively as the biggest threat off the ball, but the Knicks offensive scheme is so lazily executed that he only scores off of that every 4 or 5 games.
Yea those and the Knicks-created ones where they’re reciting poems talking about how the Knicks represent the grit and grind of NY, etc.
Also, regarding Knox, we’ve seen this movie before...
Next season when we bring in Justin Jackson (a Scott Perry draftee) and whatever young small forward we trade for like Josh Jackson and give him all of Knox minutes until one gets hurt and the others stepmother dies, we’ll finally play Knox and take credit for his development.
Next season when we bring in Justin Jackson (a Scott Perry draftee) and whatever young small forward we trade for like Josh Jackson and give him all of Knox minutes until one gets hurt and the others stepmother dies, we’ll finally play Knox and take credit for his development.
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
I hope Frank speaks with Knox since he went through the Fiz doghouse last year, try and help him keep his head up and focused.
storyteller
Veteran
The Knicks left 14 points at the free throw line and lost by 6 to the Philadelphia 76'ers, 95-101. New York turned a strong first half, especially defensively, into another tough loss to swallow. It's tough to look at the bright side as this team continues to find ways to lose. It's hard to pick out positives with the general sinking feeling of a 4-15 start to the season. We've seen the Knicks play competitive games with signs of progress only to bounce back with ugly losses to follow. That said, the starting unit appears to have made a positive stride. The forwards have let the guards handle the ball more often. This may tie in to Randle finding his efficiency over the past three games and Marcus Morris shooting an absurd percentage from the field. Maybe not though, I'm really just mining for some hope. Let's try to dig out some optimism...
Frank: The uptick in aggression from Frank Ntilikina has been real, if somewhat inconsistent. The Knicks young PG led the team in FGA's including multiple forays into the paint, where even when he missed it created second chance opportunities for bigs like Mitchell Robinson. The French Prince has been using for pick and rolls to his advantage and it has led to more kick outs and space to take jumpers. That said, his scoring efficiency still has to pick up in order to keep taking steps forward. Ntilikina went 6/14 for 13 points, 4 assists to 2 turnovers, 2 rebounds and a steal.
Frank probably deserved a couple more assists, but for the second game his shooters didn't cash in opportunities he created. This was most evident on a last minute kick out to Wayne Ellington open in the corner for what would have been a crucial three. Frank got into the paint and whipped a pass to the team's would-be best three point shooter with the result being an air-ball.
Defensively, Frank is still playing really well but he wasn't quite up to the All-NBA standard he has set on some of his best nights. He gave up a drive and finish to Tobias Harris in crunch time that was essentially the nail in the coffin. These moments might stand out just because he's been that good, but his margin for error is going to be larger until his offensive output is completely clear.
RJ: If there's one silver lining through all of the losing, RJ Barrett's upside is it. With the Knicks fighting to catch up late, RJ attacked Joel Embiid on a switch and finished a difficult lay-up. His next time down, he attacked the same switch with a midrange pull up jumper that missed, but was another quality look. Those closing moments were indicative of RJ's entire night and most of his season...the Knicks offense looks better when Barrett has the ball in his hands with frequency.
Last night Barrett shot 8/13 and 1/2 from three to score 18 points, 3 boards and 2 assists to 2 turnovers. He did this with quality defenders on him all night from Simmons to Thybulle to Ennis to the odd switch with Embiid. The kid was highly efficient and his consistent touches took weight off of others, namely Randle and Morris. RJ also had the pass of the night, following a chain of passes along the perimeter, Barrett whipped a pass to Taj Gibson inside for an emphatic dunk.
Let's ride this out a bit longer, the Knicks starting backcourt is where most of the hope lies right now. Frank isn't there yet but making strides, Barrett has a case for best player on the Knicks with Morris being his only consistent competition. The pair of guards are 21 and 19 years old respectively, playing defense well beyond their years and developing rapport on offense. On a team with very little going right, having two promising super young players start on a nightly basis (with positional flexibility I might add) has been a consistent bright spot in an otherwise ugly season.
Morris: There's not much new to say about how Marcus Morris performed last night. He's been a steady scorer for an offense that desperately needs points and a solid defender regardless of who he's matched with. The story of the season so far has been Morris' three point shooting, where he's at the top of league for efficiency. Last night marked the 7th time in the past 8 games that the Philly native hit more than 50% from three.
Mook put up 20 points and 7 boards on 6/12 shooting and 3/4 from three. He had 1 turnover to 0 assists but did make a couple of nice reads in early pick and roll situations that just didn't end in points (similar to Frank). Perhaps most importantly though, Morris is putting up these quality performances while playing underrated defense. He frustrated Ben Simmons for most of the night, no easy task, and most of the damage from Ben came in transition. I find myself wondering how much worse the Knicks would be without Mook but also feeling like he deserves a playoff team and we could use an additional draft pick.
Randle: Julius Randle still gets out of control plenty, but he's ticked back the forced shots from the perimeter. Those sections of game where he lets the ball travel and pull defenders out of place are the moments where he receives the ball with an opportunity to really take advantage. By scattering his attacks, Randle's far less predictable too which helped him have some highlight dunks and dunk attempts on the night. This translated to a strong performance.
Randle made 6/13 fga's, 1/3 from three and 9/13 from the free throw line. This helped him turn those 13 attempts into 22 points 10 boards and 4 assists to 4 TO's. There were still some cringeworthy moments scattered throughout the night, especially a couple of entirely unnecessary fouls. But this is a version of Julius Randle that's less disruptive to the offensive flow and making a clear effort to let others create for him.
Taj: It was a quiet night from Taj Gibson with the exception of a highlight reel dunk. In 17 minutes Taj put up 4 points, 2 boards and a block on 2/5 from the field. Taj continues to be a steady presence. He's a reliable role player and veteran presence but little more than that on most nights.
Smith: It's a series of flashes mixed between head scratching decisions for Dennis Smith Jr that has come to define his return so far. There are multiple plays per night where Smith looks like the best athlete on the floor, playing at a speed and explosiveness few others could keep up with. But he hasn't found that consistently, mixing in plays where he makes inexplicable decisions or flat out misreads where his teammates are going. His feel for the game was much better last season.
DSJ put up 3 points, 2 assists to 3 TO's and 3 rebounds. He made his lone field goal attempt, a nice finish inside for an and-one. Problematically though, he shot just 1/3 from the free throw line and managed those three turnovers in just 14 minutes. He has to be better for the bench to keep up with their opposition and the Knicks need his ability to get inside the lane. His upside remains worth patience, things look like they might click every few plays for the kid. But the Knicks really need better and Ntilikina could use some added rest.
Dot: It felt like Damyean Dotson tried to do much more with the ball in his hands during this one. The results of that activity were mixed. In 20 minutes of play Dot posted 10 points, 1 steal and 1 assist without a turnover on 3/8 shooting and 2/4 from three. Some possessions with Dotson on the ball meandered and left little time for anyone to make something happen, but he was able to at least attack without turnovers.
As a second option to spell Dennis Smith when things get out of control, Dot makes more sense than Ellington who is a gunner through and through. But Dot's not really the ideal secondary ball handler either. The real hope for this second unit is that Smith can get his game gelling and turn both Dot and Ellington into weapons in their proper roles. The smaller unit that combined all three saw some damned good spacing at least.
Ellington: It's understandable why Fizdale keeps trying to get Wayne Ellington minutes, but it does come with frustration when Kevin Knox doesn't see the floor combined with one of Ellington's worse performances. In 12 minutes, Ellington went 0/3 from three for 0 points, 1 assist and 1 rebound. Off ball movement and spacing are what the veteran SG should be providing, but he hasn't gotten consistent room for good looks and hasn't knocked down the few good looks he gets with any consistency.
Portis: Bobby Portis never seemed to really get into this game and with no groove, his minutes got cut. Portis spent 13 minutes going 1/4 for 2 points and 2 boards while missing 2 three point attempts. Bobby added to the free throw woes as well, going 0/2. The back-up big man always gives a good amount of effort, but has some flaws that are too tough to hide when he's not making up for them with scoring.
Mitch: I can only characterize Mitchell Robinson's performance as bizarre. He showed obvious value at times being disruptive on defense or grabbing rebounds in traffic. Mitch drew damn near as many fouls as he committed, wreaking havoc in the lanes. But he missed all but one shot at the charity stripe, going 1/6 from the free throw line. Robinson also went 1/5 from the floor, struggling with physical defenders and letting frustration turn into cheap contact fouls on the opposite end.
Make no mistake that Mitch is crucial even when he's struggling. The big man posted 3 points, 7 boards and 2 blocks in 29 minutes of play while mainly facing off with star big man Joel Embiid. He was just overmatched strength wise and it showed up as a problem on both ends at times. These sorts of tough battles will prove helpful in the long run even if Mitch clearly lost the match-up last night. He did still manage a couple of beautiful blocks as well as a nice alley-oop finish when Frank found him (there are positive signs that Frank and Mitch are developing some chemistry on pick and rolls). But overall, a weaker night from Mitch than we're used to.
Fizdale: So a few things stand out from this game that are worth discussing. The obvious one is that he benched the 8th pick from last year's draft, 20 year old Kevin Knox. Knox has regressed defensively and seen his minutes tick down gradually up to this moment. It feels understandable. The same can be said of Trier's benching so far. Knox and Trier have consistently been the weakest defenders on the floor when they play. But there's a big caveat...
This team isn't winning! The vets that are getting time aren't particularly great defensively either. Ellington is shooting poorly and average on a good night at defense. Knox shouldn't be experimented with as a 2 guard but a stretch four, providing more spacing and mobility than Portis does. On a 4 and 15 team, the two sophomores who showed promise as rookies should probably be getting minutes. Nothing else is working anyway.
But still, I'm a stickler for defense and I'd take a move to the G-league for a brief spell for Knox especially. He's 20 years old, raw but talented and his game needs to be molded. This feels similar to the Ntilikina situation last year. Fizdale is in a situation where a young prospect that needs a lot of attention might not be getting enough because there are so many other young players that need development. Add in the misshapen roster and it's hard to create line-ups that Knox can excel in, especially with other youngsters becoming bigger focal points.
The other two issues are also potentially on the personnel. Free throw shooting and losing big leads have become staple issues for the team. There's a lack of attention to detail getting in the way of what appears to be solid effort on most nights. It's chicken or the egg with the roster or the coach though. A lot of players have regressed but most of the roster never looked like it would mesh to begin with. Fiz has cover from harsher critique because of this, but he's certainly not helping the situation and at minimum...this team has played a weak schedule and should absolutely have a better record than they had last season. Too much regression can and should lead to more speculation about how long Fiz sticks around.
All that said, Randle and Morris have actually shown a shift in mindset. Frank and RJ are getting big minutes and big roles. There are pathways for a lot of these youngsters to break through. It's just tough to know how long Fizdale has before something's got to give. He'll likely be the first casualty whether this season's burden deserves to rest on his shoulders or not.
Frank: The uptick in aggression from Frank Ntilikina has been real, if somewhat inconsistent. The Knicks young PG led the team in FGA's including multiple forays into the paint, where even when he missed it created second chance opportunities for bigs like Mitchell Robinson. The French Prince has been using for pick and rolls to his advantage and it has led to more kick outs and space to take jumpers. That said, his scoring efficiency still has to pick up in order to keep taking steps forward. Ntilikina went 6/14 for 13 points, 4 assists to 2 turnovers, 2 rebounds and a steal.
Frank probably deserved a couple more assists, but for the second game his shooters didn't cash in opportunities he created. This was most evident on a last minute kick out to Wayne Ellington open in the corner for what would have been a crucial three. Frank got into the paint and whipped a pass to the team's would-be best three point shooter with the result being an air-ball.
Defensively, Frank is still playing really well but he wasn't quite up to the All-NBA standard he has set on some of his best nights. He gave up a drive and finish to Tobias Harris in crunch time that was essentially the nail in the coffin. These moments might stand out just because he's been that good, but his margin for error is going to be larger until his offensive output is completely clear.
RJ: If there's one silver lining through all of the losing, RJ Barrett's upside is it. With the Knicks fighting to catch up late, RJ attacked Joel Embiid on a switch and finished a difficult lay-up. His next time down, he attacked the same switch with a midrange pull up jumper that missed, but was another quality look. Those closing moments were indicative of RJ's entire night and most of his season...the Knicks offense looks better when Barrett has the ball in his hands with frequency.
Last night Barrett shot 8/13 and 1/2 from three to score 18 points, 3 boards and 2 assists to 2 turnovers. He did this with quality defenders on him all night from Simmons to Thybulle to Ennis to the odd switch with Embiid. The kid was highly efficient and his consistent touches took weight off of others, namely Randle and Morris. RJ also had the pass of the night, following a chain of passes along the perimeter, Barrett whipped a pass to Taj Gibson inside for an emphatic dunk.
Let's ride this out a bit longer, the Knicks starting backcourt is where most of the hope lies right now. Frank isn't there yet but making strides, Barrett has a case for best player on the Knicks with Morris being his only consistent competition. The pair of guards are 21 and 19 years old respectively, playing defense well beyond their years and developing rapport on offense. On a team with very little going right, having two promising super young players start on a nightly basis (with positional flexibility I might add) has been a consistent bright spot in an otherwise ugly season.
Morris: There's not much new to say about how Marcus Morris performed last night. He's been a steady scorer for an offense that desperately needs points and a solid defender regardless of who he's matched with. The story of the season so far has been Morris' three point shooting, where he's at the top of league for efficiency. Last night marked the 7th time in the past 8 games that the Philly native hit more than 50% from three.
Mook put up 20 points and 7 boards on 6/12 shooting and 3/4 from three. He had 1 turnover to 0 assists but did make a couple of nice reads in early pick and roll situations that just didn't end in points (similar to Frank). Perhaps most importantly though, Morris is putting up these quality performances while playing underrated defense. He frustrated Ben Simmons for most of the night, no easy task, and most of the damage from Ben came in transition. I find myself wondering how much worse the Knicks would be without Mook but also feeling like he deserves a playoff team and we could use an additional draft pick.
Randle: Julius Randle still gets out of control plenty, but he's ticked back the forced shots from the perimeter. Those sections of game where he lets the ball travel and pull defenders out of place are the moments where he receives the ball with an opportunity to really take advantage. By scattering his attacks, Randle's far less predictable too which helped him have some highlight dunks and dunk attempts on the night. This translated to a strong performance.
Randle made 6/13 fga's, 1/3 from three and 9/13 from the free throw line. This helped him turn those 13 attempts into 22 points 10 boards and 4 assists to 4 TO's. There were still some cringeworthy moments scattered throughout the night, especially a couple of entirely unnecessary fouls. But this is a version of Julius Randle that's less disruptive to the offensive flow and making a clear effort to let others create for him.
Taj: It was a quiet night from Taj Gibson with the exception of a highlight reel dunk. In 17 minutes Taj put up 4 points, 2 boards and a block on 2/5 from the field. Taj continues to be a steady presence. He's a reliable role player and veteran presence but little more than that on most nights.
Smith: It's a series of flashes mixed between head scratching decisions for Dennis Smith Jr that has come to define his return so far. There are multiple plays per night where Smith looks like the best athlete on the floor, playing at a speed and explosiveness few others could keep up with. But he hasn't found that consistently, mixing in plays where he makes inexplicable decisions or flat out misreads where his teammates are going. His feel for the game was much better last season.
DSJ put up 3 points, 2 assists to 3 TO's and 3 rebounds. He made his lone field goal attempt, a nice finish inside for an and-one. Problematically though, he shot just 1/3 from the free throw line and managed those three turnovers in just 14 minutes. He has to be better for the bench to keep up with their opposition and the Knicks need his ability to get inside the lane. His upside remains worth patience, things look like they might click every few plays for the kid. But the Knicks really need better and Ntilikina could use some added rest.
Dot: It felt like Damyean Dotson tried to do much more with the ball in his hands during this one. The results of that activity were mixed. In 20 minutes of play Dot posted 10 points, 1 steal and 1 assist without a turnover on 3/8 shooting and 2/4 from three. Some possessions with Dotson on the ball meandered and left little time for anyone to make something happen, but he was able to at least attack without turnovers.
As a second option to spell Dennis Smith when things get out of control, Dot makes more sense than Ellington who is a gunner through and through. But Dot's not really the ideal secondary ball handler either. The real hope for this second unit is that Smith can get his game gelling and turn both Dot and Ellington into weapons in their proper roles. The smaller unit that combined all three saw some damned good spacing at least.
Ellington: It's understandable why Fizdale keeps trying to get Wayne Ellington minutes, but it does come with frustration when Kevin Knox doesn't see the floor combined with one of Ellington's worse performances. In 12 minutes, Ellington went 0/3 from three for 0 points, 1 assist and 1 rebound. Off ball movement and spacing are what the veteran SG should be providing, but he hasn't gotten consistent room for good looks and hasn't knocked down the few good looks he gets with any consistency.
Portis: Bobby Portis never seemed to really get into this game and with no groove, his minutes got cut. Portis spent 13 minutes going 1/4 for 2 points and 2 boards while missing 2 three point attempts. Bobby added to the free throw woes as well, going 0/2. The back-up big man always gives a good amount of effort, but has some flaws that are too tough to hide when he's not making up for them with scoring.
Mitch: I can only characterize Mitchell Robinson's performance as bizarre. He showed obvious value at times being disruptive on defense or grabbing rebounds in traffic. Mitch drew damn near as many fouls as he committed, wreaking havoc in the lanes. But he missed all but one shot at the charity stripe, going 1/6 from the free throw line. Robinson also went 1/5 from the floor, struggling with physical defenders and letting frustration turn into cheap contact fouls on the opposite end.
Make no mistake that Mitch is crucial even when he's struggling. The big man posted 3 points, 7 boards and 2 blocks in 29 minutes of play while mainly facing off with star big man Joel Embiid. He was just overmatched strength wise and it showed up as a problem on both ends at times. These sorts of tough battles will prove helpful in the long run even if Mitch clearly lost the match-up last night. He did still manage a couple of beautiful blocks as well as a nice alley-oop finish when Frank found him (there are positive signs that Frank and Mitch are developing some chemistry on pick and rolls). But overall, a weaker night from Mitch than we're used to.
Fizdale: So a few things stand out from this game that are worth discussing. The obvious one is that he benched the 8th pick from last year's draft, 20 year old Kevin Knox. Knox has regressed defensively and seen his minutes tick down gradually up to this moment. It feels understandable. The same can be said of Trier's benching so far. Knox and Trier have consistently been the weakest defenders on the floor when they play. But there's a big caveat...
This team isn't winning! The vets that are getting time aren't particularly great defensively either. Ellington is shooting poorly and average on a good night at defense. Knox shouldn't be experimented with as a 2 guard but a stretch four, providing more spacing and mobility than Portis does. On a 4 and 15 team, the two sophomores who showed promise as rookies should probably be getting minutes. Nothing else is working anyway.
But still, I'm a stickler for defense and I'd take a move to the G-league for a brief spell for Knox especially. He's 20 years old, raw but talented and his game needs to be molded. This feels similar to the Ntilikina situation last year. Fizdale is in a situation where a young prospect that needs a lot of attention might not be getting enough because there are so many other young players that need development. Add in the misshapen roster and it's hard to create line-ups that Knox can excel in, especially with other youngsters becoming bigger focal points.
The other two issues are also potentially on the personnel. Free throw shooting and losing big leads have become staple issues for the team. There's a lack of attention to detail getting in the way of what appears to be solid effort on most nights. It's chicken or the egg with the roster or the coach though. A lot of players have regressed but most of the roster never looked like it would mesh to begin with. Fiz has cover from harsher critique because of this, but he's certainly not helping the situation and at minimum...this team has played a weak schedule and should absolutely have a better record than they had last season. Too much regression can and should lead to more speculation about how long Fiz sticks around.
All that said, Randle and Morris have actually shown a shift in mindset. Frank and RJ are getting big minutes and big roles. There are pathways for a lot of these youngsters to break through. It's just tough to know how long Fizdale has before something's got to give. He'll likely be the first casualty whether this season's burden deserves to rest on his shoulders or not.
It doesnt matter if hes worse ur not a playoff team,ur playing for the future by trying to develop...Ellington,Portis,Morris are not a part of the future,makes no sense to roll with them and lose 60 games and waste an entire season of tryign to develop players that will still be with the team in 2 years....You already know Portis and Wayne are gone likely after this year...You gotta throw him out there and let him make mistakes...
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Kevin Knox has had one of the longest leashes of any rookie while being one of the worst players in the NBA through the 1 1/4 seasons he’s played lol
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
*checks standings*
*sees that the Knicks are only 4 games out of the 8th seed in the terrible East*
Maybe you should switch that to "you're not a good team."
It's an irrelevant point...Kevin Knox needs to learn how to play proper defense and he's not going to learn it by throwing him to the NBA wolves. Let him work on his defense in the G League where the talent is lesser and he can dominate offensively also. Then he can step up from there. Giving minutes just to give minutes is not development
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
Maybe the reason we all have such strong feelings about Frank & Knox is that for over a decade we kept yelling at the front office to stop trading our draft picks, and now we’re afraid they are going to look at us like
JerseyFinest!
All Star
How so?
He had a decent rookie season. Won rookie of the month in December.
last month of the season his played picked up, and he ended the season strong.
Dude literally just Turned 20 in August. He’s already showed he can score on the NBA level.
He started the season scoring well off the bench, it’s not too many 20 yr old coming into the league playing good defense. Yeah he struggles, but I see him giving effort..the I.Q. Will come with experience.
JerseyFinest!
All Star
Maybe the reason we all have such strong feelings about Frank & Knox is that for over a decade we kept yelling at the front office to stop trading our draft picks, and now we’re afraid they are going to look at us like
They just traded KP
I feel like I’m going to have to start Defending Knox, the same way I was defending Frank.
This is literally the beginning of his 2nd yr, dude just turned 20. Why do we be so quick the call young players, bust?
Both have showed potential. Idk if they’ll ever be All Stars, but they’ll definitely be good players on NBA rosters. Let them young boys play through their mistakes.
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