That's mean breh, leave Buddy Love alone fam
Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread
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That's mean breh, leave Buddy Love alone fam
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Deep_Black_Conscious
Superstar
All facts and RJ needs to step it upRJ's been ass this month. His jumper has been completely disappeared recently. It doesn't help that he's not able to get in a rhythm, because of the cancer
However to be fair, we won't be able to see RJ's potential until
1)
The Knicks surround RJ with more shooters to improve the spacing
In order for RJ to succeed, he needs spacing and he needs it now
We won't be able to see all the highlight finishes and fancy moves until there
is more room to move
2)
Randle is off this team and RJ becomes the focal point
Morris might have to go too as he doesn't like passing the ball to RJ either
even though he might be forced to if RJ becomes the focal point
Instead we have RJ in the corner
What's the point of picking RJ at #3 if your not developing him to be the main guy starting
this season?
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Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
If the Clippers are willing to give up a first then the Knicks should do it. I'd miss Morris but 18 points a game and shooting 48% from downtown doesn't seem sustainable for him, and Patterson and Harkless are both decent role players (Harkless is a great defender).
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
Ideally yeah, but currently I don't think there are too many teams that would give up a first for a player on a one year contract. The only other teams I can think of that might give up a first for Morris are Houston and Portland. Also, Harkless is pretty good, I honestly wouldn't consider him as just a throw-in to the trade.
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
I'd try to throw Randle in there for more. We really have to get rid of him.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
we really don’t. We are in rebuild mode and he has a short contract.
qnsfinest
Superstar
I would prefer to hold out on a better deal for Morris but the clips deal ain’t to bad. With all their load management, I don’t think they will finish with a top 8 record, so you’re looking at around the 22 pick which isn’t bad.
I still say the ideal place for Morris is with the Bucks. Bucks need to come off that pacers first rounder.
I still say the ideal place for Morris is with the Bucks. Bucks need to come off that pacers first rounder.
storyteller
Veteran
The New York Knicks forced a battle in Denver but came up in short, losing to the Nuggets 105-111. The Nuggets took off with 67 points in the first half that forced the Knicks to fight back throughout most of the second. The Knicks turned in an inspired defensive effort for the second half that saw them take a fourth quarter lead before, stop me if you've heard this before, the team went ice cold for the final minutes of the game while Denver's stars stepped up to close. This was the first time in Coach Mike Miller's brief tenure that the youth was outperforming the vets at times and he would have been justified going to Mitch sooner and Frank at all in the waning minutes of the game. Frank Ntilikina rebounded from some rough performances, Kevin Knox turned his motor up again and Robinson has been great ever since sending out a cryptic tweet a couple of weeks back. That promise out of the young guys is more important than wins or losses. Let's get into it:
Ntilikina: It could be serendipity or it could be a point of emphasis from the staff, but this was the second game in a row where Frank Ntilikina tried to get his offense going quickly. Frank had missed his early attempts in Sacramento but against the Nuggets he quickly canned a corner three and a midrange pull-up. The addition of shooting unlocked everything else for Frank as well, who played the part of defensive disruptor and solid organizer throughout the night. The French Prince spent 24 minutes putting up 13 points, 4 assists to 0 TO's, 5 rebounds and 4 steals. He did this on 4/6 from the field and 2/4 from three.
The steals total probably could have been higher too, Frank deflected a ton of passes and closed multiple possessions with good rebounds. The young PG prospect played a clever game on both ends and with the shot falling, you could see his confident but humble game expand. At one point, he drove hard toward the baseline and sent his defender crashing to the floor on a behind the back cross over. Frank, being Frank, swung the ball to Randle who immediately passed it back. Only THEN did Ntilikina take and make the three pointer he'd created, his man still sliding toward the photography row.
That little flash of elusiveness and some brilliant passes (a head fake and feed to Taj Gibson down the center of the court was the pass of the night) showed the potential Ntilikina is playing with. Hopefully he continues to try and find his scoring early as it helps bring FIBA Frank to stateside games.
Barrett: The scouting report is out on RJ Barrett and he's increasingly facing defenders that go under every screen and rotate to seal off the paint. This has forced RJ to take increasingly difficult shots inside or rely on his jumper aka the biggest hole in his game right now. This gets exacerbated with the Knicks' typical front court tandems. In 36 minutes, Barrett managed just 7 points, 1 assist to 2 TO's and 3 boards. The kid usually finds other avenues to be productive and present but the Nuggets really shut him down. He went 3/12 from the field and 1/6 from three...everything was a struggle.
One of Miller's tweaks to the offense has been to let the PG's set plays up and generally have the ball in their hands more often. Combined with the high usage of Randle and Morris, this has left Barrett with less opportunities to key himself in and catch a rhythm. His best moments of late have come in transition situations, such as a beautiful dunk he had after a turnover created by Frank. Catch and shoot opportunities are available but Barrett simply hasn't been able to cash them in yet. RJ's potential is still clear in flashes of power moves inside or dunks in transition but his off ball play is more important than ever.
Morris: There's a crucial note about the Knicks furious comeback in the third quarter. Marcus Morris was the key piece to it all. Yes, the point guard play from both Frank and Elfrid acted as a catalyst for the team to work off of, but Mook scored 18 of the Knicks 33 points in that stretch. That stretch of absolute fire helped mask an otherwise tough night for Morris though. The Philly native put up 22 points and 5 rebounds (3 TO's to 0 assists) in 35 minutes. His shooting outside of the third was ugly, 8/18 on the night and 3/9 from three.
Morris' third quarter is a great example of how the team is relying on him to be that go-to player. His inability to convert in the fourth quarter as the Knicks failed to score late is another magnifying glass on this aspect of the team. No player has been more consistent scoring but Marcus Morris is not an ideal first option. The Knicks either need him to do more than he should have to or they can't hang with better teams in the league.
Randle: Julius Rande went right at his match-up of Jerami Grant and found some real success. But the early scoring also may have led to less focus on recognizing doubles and finding open players for the rest of the night. Randle spent 36 minutes accumulating a solid 20 points, 9 boards and 2 assists to 1 TO. The problem is that he wasn't particularly efficient, going 8/19 from the field and 1/6 from three. The big man would have some success attacking the lane or in midrange and then try to make it work from range as defenders backed off...it just never worked.
The numbers here are completely acceptable but don't tell a complete story. Yes, Randle flirted with a 20 and 10 game while only turning it over once. But he missed 11 shots and converted just 8 while Denver bailed him out a couple of times in which he drove into the traps but was able to get a whistle. Without the bail-outs, Randle would be flirting with more TO's, less points and an even less efficient night. This gets exacerbated by a number of defensive lapses from miscommunications to straight up lazy plays. It almost behooves him to not score too easily early as his focus seems to lock in as a scorer at the expense of the defensive effort and playmaking we saw in some recent performances.
Gibson: There's still not a lot new to report on Taj Gibson. He was steady again although his size handicap came back to bite him when Jokic posted up late in the game with the Nuggets needing baskets. That said his 16 minutes for 6 points, 3 boards, a steal and a block fell in the pretty good but not great category. He's consistent and the Knicks can use that.
Payton: It's interesting, Elfrid Payton had a very similar game to Marcus Morris in that he had an explosive third quarter that masked struggles in the rest of the game. So the guy came close to a triple-double and yet managed a +/- in the teens as he was present on the court for two scoring droughts (one in the first quarter and one in the fourth). Payton put up an eye opening 10 points, 11 assists to 0 TO's and 7 boards in just 25 minutes. The young veteran PG was solid, but far from perfect posting 5/13 from the field including multiple misses in the last five minutes of the game without a conversion and 0/3 from three.
The most obvious Payton factor is that he can spark a run just by getting guys into the right place to convert. Mook's hot third quarter started prior to Elfrid checking in but it was Payton who recognized the hot hand and fed it repeatedly. Even when the team doesn't score for Payton, he typically plays a strong brand of defense that can help create transition opportunities. All of that said, his one glaring issue is that teams just never respect his jumper. In the closing minutes, his inability to stretch the floor creates less space for the team's go-to guys to operate in. Right now, Miller trusts Payton to close out games, but I think the best strategy for the time being is to go with whichever PG is converting three pointers best.
Dot: Damyean Dotson had a number of situations where he and a big man would stare at each other after giving up an open lane to a Nugget. At first I was ready to blame Randle but it happened with Mitchell Robinson out there too. So after 7 minutes and no production, Dot went to the bench and never returned. It was an understandable benching...miscommunications just kept happening with Dotson involved. Something was off last night.
Knox: I've been singing the praises of Kevin Knox in small blurbs on the boards after the Western Conference games throughout the road trip. Knox hasn't been good statistically but a series of blocks and fast breaks have given me the impression that his motor is on an uptick. Last night, that increased energy finally translated to a productive scoring night...most impressive of all, it was a productive night without the three ball falling. Knox added 10 points, 4 boards and 1 assist to 0 TO's in 22 minutes. He did so on 5/8 from the field and 0/2 from three. So he missed just one attempt inside the three point line.
No play exemplified the heightened energy of Kevin Knox better than a jab step to move Plumlee off line and then a straight line drive for a dunk. Knox is a scary player when he gets momentum but he struggles to move laterally, so he needs momentum and space. This is why he's such a better transition player than a half-court slasher. That said, little ball fakes can go a long way to getting him that one step he'll need to generate momentum downhill. His lateral movement weakness also showed up when he was tasked with defending Gary Harris in the first half, he failed...but that's on Miller in my opinion.
Bobby: The Bobby Portis statline screams "giveth and taketh away" from the damned mountain tops. Portis added 9 points and 4 boards in just 14 minutes of play, an offensive boost that was much needed amid multiple scoring droughts on the night. But he also turned the ball over 3 times with just 1 assist in that 14 minute span. In addition to that, when Gibson is being overwhelmed and Randle is unfocused, Portis' defensive flaws are just impossible to hide. So we got a lot of good from Portis, but the bad meant 14 minutes was about all we could get out of him before things went south.
Mitch: For another night, Mitchell Robinson avoided foul trouble and stayed in the mix as a viable option whenever needed. Part of that was not jumping at everything early, a decision that threw his timing off and led to some finishes for Denver scorers inside. But that decision also meant Mitch could chase players more freely in the second half, lo and behold the Knicks defense jumped a notch in that second half. Robinson finished his 25 minutes with 8 points, 7 boards (3 offensive), a steal and a block. He also had 1 TO to no assists.
There weren't new wrinkles to this, but I haven't talked put a full write up during the late night games on the West Coast so let me wax on it for a minute. Mitch has done two things really well in this recent stretch of games. He's cut back immensely on fouls where he puts hands on a ball handler away from the basket, part of this is the reduction in switches from the defense. Robinson isn't trying to chase small guards as often. The other part is just being more responsible with how he uses his hands. The second aspect that he's done well is not going for pump fakes and holding his place until a player commits to the shot. This means a decrease in blocks but he can still be effective deterring shooters by making them adjust around his presence.
That could be why his timing has been a bit shaky and some guys have finished inside with him around...but long term, his timing and instincts ought to keep him a proper rim protector even on nights like last where he picked up just one block. He's a deterrent just being out there and staying out there requires not picking up the bad fouls. So he's trending in the best direction we could hope for.
Miller: The Knicks rotation feels fairly stable under Mike Miller. You can actually see the meritocracy early on as Frank Ntilikina usually leaves the game after his first 6 minutes but he got closer to 10 as the Knicks best scorer in that first quarter. Miller notably brought in Payton at regular time, but took RJ Barrett off instead of Frank...simple and effective reward for a player who was doing well. The reciprocal action worked to the same end. Dotson was out of sorts with multiple bigs and saw the bench for his lack of communication. I don't mind young guys taking a seat when they play poorly and earn the benching.
That said, the bigger conversation over coaching will likely fall to Miller relying on the vets late. Frank had played one of the more consistently effective games across four quarters. Miller opted to go to Elfrid Payton late though. This does make sense however, Payton had a major 3rd quarter run and his chemistry with Randle has been crucial in some late wins. That said, I think Barrett's struggles warranted Payton replacing the top three pick rather than Ntilikina. I also felt that Mitch needed to get into the game sooner. Taj Gibson got some crucial minutes in the clutch where the Nuggets targeted him with post-ups. He just wasn't big enough to deny Jokic without help and the Knicks couldn't afford to help off the Nuggets many shooters.
Both of those missteps are debatable though. The vets have rewarded Miller so far and even in this game, they got some good looks off but didn't finish. I'd prefer to see more effort to transition to the youth closing out games, but five games into the new coaching tenure the continuity isn't something I'll complain about. For now, the continued high effort and efficacy out of time outs keeps me cautiously optimistic that the Knicks may have stumbled upon a quality coach just like they had to fall backwards into Ntilikina being a useful rotation player. We're used to the Knicks slipping and sliding, falling up for a few lucky breaks is something we're probably overdue for just on the sheer volume of missteps the Knicks have taken.
Ntilikina: It could be serendipity or it could be a point of emphasis from the staff, but this was the second game in a row where Frank Ntilikina tried to get his offense going quickly. Frank had missed his early attempts in Sacramento but against the Nuggets he quickly canned a corner three and a midrange pull-up. The addition of shooting unlocked everything else for Frank as well, who played the part of defensive disruptor and solid organizer throughout the night. The French Prince spent 24 minutes putting up 13 points, 4 assists to 0 TO's, 5 rebounds and 4 steals. He did this on 4/6 from the field and 2/4 from three.
The steals total probably could have been higher too, Frank deflected a ton of passes and closed multiple possessions with good rebounds. The young PG prospect played a clever game on both ends and with the shot falling, you could see his confident but humble game expand. At one point, he drove hard toward the baseline and sent his defender crashing to the floor on a behind the back cross over. Frank, being Frank, swung the ball to Randle who immediately passed it back. Only THEN did Ntilikina take and make the three pointer he'd created, his man still sliding toward the photography row.
That little flash of elusiveness and some brilliant passes (a head fake and feed to Taj Gibson down the center of the court was the pass of the night) showed the potential Ntilikina is playing with. Hopefully he continues to try and find his scoring early as it helps bring FIBA Frank to stateside games.
Barrett: The scouting report is out on RJ Barrett and he's increasingly facing defenders that go under every screen and rotate to seal off the paint. This has forced RJ to take increasingly difficult shots inside or rely on his jumper aka the biggest hole in his game right now. This gets exacerbated with the Knicks' typical front court tandems. In 36 minutes, Barrett managed just 7 points, 1 assist to 2 TO's and 3 boards. The kid usually finds other avenues to be productive and present but the Nuggets really shut him down. He went 3/12 from the field and 1/6 from three...everything was a struggle.
One of Miller's tweaks to the offense has been to let the PG's set plays up and generally have the ball in their hands more often. Combined with the high usage of Randle and Morris, this has left Barrett with less opportunities to key himself in and catch a rhythm. His best moments of late have come in transition situations, such as a beautiful dunk he had after a turnover created by Frank. Catch and shoot opportunities are available but Barrett simply hasn't been able to cash them in yet. RJ's potential is still clear in flashes of power moves inside or dunks in transition but his off ball play is more important than ever.
Morris: There's a crucial note about the Knicks furious comeback in the third quarter. Marcus Morris was the key piece to it all. Yes, the point guard play from both Frank and Elfrid acted as a catalyst for the team to work off of, but Mook scored 18 of the Knicks 33 points in that stretch. That stretch of absolute fire helped mask an otherwise tough night for Morris though. The Philly native put up 22 points and 5 rebounds (3 TO's to 0 assists) in 35 minutes. His shooting outside of the third was ugly, 8/18 on the night and 3/9 from three.
Morris' third quarter is a great example of how the team is relying on him to be that go-to player. His inability to convert in the fourth quarter as the Knicks failed to score late is another magnifying glass on this aspect of the team. No player has been more consistent scoring but Marcus Morris is not an ideal first option. The Knicks either need him to do more than he should have to or they can't hang with better teams in the league.
Randle: Julius Rande went right at his match-up of Jerami Grant and found some real success. But the early scoring also may have led to less focus on recognizing doubles and finding open players for the rest of the night. Randle spent 36 minutes accumulating a solid 20 points, 9 boards and 2 assists to 1 TO. The problem is that he wasn't particularly efficient, going 8/19 from the field and 1/6 from three. The big man would have some success attacking the lane or in midrange and then try to make it work from range as defenders backed off...it just never worked.
The numbers here are completely acceptable but don't tell a complete story. Yes, Randle flirted with a 20 and 10 game while only turning it over once. But he missed 11 shots and converted just 8 while Denver bailed him out a couple of times in which he drove into the traps but was able to get a whistle. Without the bail-outs, Randle would be flirting with more TO's, less points and an even less efficient night. This gets exacerbated by a number of defensive lapses from miscommunications to straight up lazy plays. It almost behooves him to not score too easily early as his focus seems to lock in as a scorer at the expense of the defensive effort and playmaking we saw in some recent performances.
Gibson: There's still not a lot new to report on Taj Gibson. He was steady again although his size handicap came back to bite him when Jokic posted up late in the game with the Nuggets needing baskets. That said his 16 minutes for 6 points, 3 boards, a steal and a block fell in the pretty good but not great category. He's consistent and the Knicks can use that.
Payton: It's interesting, Elfrid Payton had a very similar game to Marcus Morris in that he had an explosive third quarter that masked struggles in the rest of the game. So the guy came close to a triple-double and yet managed a +/- in the teens as he was present on the court for two scoring droughts (one in the first quarter and one in the fourth). Payton put up an eye opening 10 points, 11 assists to 0 TO's and 7 boards in just 25 minutes. The young veteran PG was solid, but far from perfect posting 5/13 from the field including multiple misses in the last five minutes of the game without a conversion and 0/3 from three.
The most obvious Payton factor is that he can spark a run just by getting guys into the right place to convert. Mook's hot third quarter started prior to Elfrid checking in but it was Payton who recognized the hot hand and fed it repeatedly. Even when the team doesn't score for Payton, he typically plays a strong brand of defense that can help create transition opportunities. All of that said, his one glaring issue is that teams just never respect his jumper. In the closing minutes, his inability to stretch the floor creates less space for the team's go-to guys to operate in. Right now, Miller trusts Payton to close out games, but I think the best strategy for the time being is to go with whichever PG is converting three pointers best.
Dot: Damyean Dotson had a number of situations where he and a big man would stare at each other after giving up an open lane to a Nugget. At first I was ready to blame Randle but it happened with Mitchell Robinson out there too. So after 7 minutes and no production, Dot went to the bench and never returned. It was an understandable benching...miscommunications just kept happening with Dotson involved. Something was off last night.
Knox: I've been singing the praises of Kevin Knox in small blurbs on the boards after the Western Conference games throughout the road trip. Knox hasn't been good statistically but a series of blocks and fast breaks have given me the impression that his motor is on an uptick. Last night, that increased energy finally translated to a productive scoring night...most impressive of all, it was a productive night without the three ball falling. Knox added 10 points, 4 boards and 1 assist to 0 TO's in 22 minutes. He did so on 5/8 from the field and 0/2 from three. So he missed just one attempt inside the three point line.
No play exemplified the heightened energy of Kevin Knox better than a jab step to move Plumlee off line and then a straight line drive for a dunk. Knox is a scary player when he gets momentum but he struggles to move laterally, so he needs momentum and space. This is why he's such a better transition player than a half-court slasher. That said, little ball fakes can go a long way to getting him that one step he'll need to generate momentum downhill. His lateral movement weakness also showed up when he was tasked with defending Gary Harris in the first half, he failed...but that's on Miller in my opinion.
Bobby: The Bobby Portis statline screams "giveth and taketh away" from the damned mountain tops. Portis added 9 points and 4 boards in just 14 minutes of play, an offensive boost that was much needed amid multiple scoring droughts on the night. But he also turned the ball over 3 times with just 1 assist in that 14 minute span. In addition to that, when Gibson is being overwhelmed and Randle is unfocused, Portis' defensive flaws are just impossible to hide. So we got a lot of good from Portis, but the bad meant 14 minutes was about all we could get out of him before things went south.
Mitch: For another night, Mitchell Robinson avoided foul trouble and stayed in the mix as a viable option whenever needed. Part of that was not jumping at everything early, a decision that threw his timing off and led to some finishes for Denver scorers inside. But that decision also meant Mitch could chase players more freely in the second half, lo and behold the Knicks defense jumped a notch in that second half. Robinson finished his 25 minutes with 8 points, 7 boards (3 offensive), a steal and a block. He also had 1 TO to no assists.
There weren't new wrinkles to this, but I haven't talked put a full write up during the late night games on the West Coast so let me wax on it for a minute. Mitch has done two things really well in this recent stretch of games. He's cut back immensely on fouls where he puts hands on a ball handler away from the basket, part of this is the reduction in switches from the defense. Robinson isn't trying to chase small guards as often. The other part is just being more responsible with how he uses his hands. The second aspect that he's done well is not going for pump fakes and holding his place until a player commits to the shot. This means a decrease in blocks but he can still be effective deterring shooters by making them adjust around his presence.
That could be why his timing has been a bit shaky and some guys have finished inside with him around...but long term, his timing and instincts ought to keep him a proper rim protector even on nights like last where he picked up just one block. He's a deterrent just being out there and staying out there requires not picking up the bad fouls. So he's trending in the best direction we could hope for.
Miller: The Knicks rotation feels fairly stable under Mike Miller. You can actually see the meritocracy early on as Frank Ntilikina usually leaves the game after his first 6 minutes but he got closer to 10 as the Knicks best scorer in that first quarter. Miller notably brought in Payton at regular time, but took RJ Barrett off instead of Frank...simple and effective reward for a player who was doing well. The reciprocal action worked to the same end. Dotson was out of sorts with multiple bigs and saw the bench for his lack of communication. I don't mind young guys taking a seat when they play poorly and earn the benching.
That said, the bigger conversation over coaching will likely fall to Miller relying on the vets late. Frank had played one of the more consistently effective games across four quarters. Miller opted to go to Elfrid Payton late though. This does make sense however, Payton had a major 3rd quarter run and his chemistry with Randle has been crucial in some late wins. That said, I think Barrett's struggles warranted Payton replacing the top three pick rather than Ntilikina. I also felt that Mitch needed to get into the game sooner. Taj Gibson got some crucial minutes in the clutch where the Nuggets targeted him with post-ups. He just wasn't big enough to deny Jokic without help and the Knicks couldn't afford to help off the Nuggets many shooters.
Both of those missteps are debatable though. The vets have rewarded Miller so far and even in this game, they got some good looks off but didn't finish. I'd prefer to see more effort to transition to the youth closing out games, but five games into the new coaching tenure the continuity isn't something I'll complain about. For now, the continued high effort and efficacy out of time outs keeps me cautiously optimistic that the Knicks may have stumbled upon a quality coach just like they had to fall backwards into Ntilikina being a useful rotation player. We're used to the Knicks slipping and sliding, falling up for a few lucky breaks is something we're probably overdue for just on the sheer volume of missteps the Knicks have taken.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Harkless and Patterson would be
on this team
storyteller
Veteran
If we could make it a three team deal and flip Harkless for a second rounder, I'd consider that Clippers deal. A first, a second and Patterson expiring for Morris isn't my ideal haul though. I'm a sucker for quotes about wanting to be here, Mook is playing really well and seems like a good leader and the only thing I'm nervous about is what price he intends to stay at...for 15 mil a year, I'd keep him long term. If he expects to be compensated for balling like he has...deservedly so I'll add...I'm looking for assets.
Im not against keeping Morris, but I’m gonna need him to pass more. We already have Magic Randle out there in the backcourt.
Doesnt he have a semi no trade since it is a one year deal?
Nope, he can be traded as of yesterday.
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