Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[RickyGQ]

I disagree
So many people focus on athleticism as a determination of stardom and potential
How is DSJ doing?

That's not a good enough metric as you are oversimplifying what makes someone a superstar
Did Ingram look close to being a superstar star his rookie season or the season after that?

Many Lakers fans thought he was basura early on even though quiet a few saw his potential

You ignore
1) RJ's elite strength for his age
Whatever you don't see in his athletcism is made up by the sheer strength that he plays with
Do you see how strong he is now? Imagine when he hits peak strength
He is also above average athletically but you don't get to see it much because he is not strong enough despite being very strong for a 19 year old and more importantly, the spacing is complete shyt

He is not giannis or westbrook level but he is pretty athletic
I like how you ignored how he blew by an elite defender like PG multiple times in LA for example


2) His ability to get downhill is special
RJ has a great ability to drive to the basket downhill
The problem is he is not strong enough yet to finish at the rim with contact
The refs don't give him calls
When this kid fully grows into his body and can finish through contact, you're telling me
he won't be a monster driving to the rim?
The only way you would be able to stop him is to foul him

3) his bball iq
In the beginning of the season before Randle and Morris' ways rubbed off on him, RJ displayed exceptional bball IQ, playing team ball only to realize it's everyone for themselves
he learns very quickly

Really the only thing holding RJ back is his jumpshot
If he fixes that the sky is the limit for his ceiling

like I said if the ball was running through RJ like it does through Ja (and not Payton, Randle, Morris, etc.) and if the team was catered to his strengths (shooters everywhere), the narrative might be very different

Athleticism isn’t the be all end all for superstardom, your right. But the reason it’s so important to scouts and organizations is because it’s the only Skill set thing a player can’t acquire during his career. You just have to have it.
For RJ’s game which is based on driving to the hoop he would need elite athleticism to be a superstar. Flat out. His strength can only get him so far, but without being able to leap over bigs or stay in the air longer to finish at a higher clip, he’ll always be leaving baskets on the table. The difference between a star and a superstar is going to be those 6-7 extra points a night.
He’s not a Luka type who is a superstar without athleticism because Luka has ELITE skills as a shooter and playmaker. RJ doesn’t have elite anything in his repertoire aside from drive and will. I’m not saying he’s gonna be a bum, i think he’ll be a very good player but there’s always gonna be a noticeable difference between him and guys like Tatum, Ingram and Luka in the next 4 years.

RJ is gonna be a 20-22 pt a night scorer. I don’t think he’ll have enough to be a 26-28 pt a night scorer.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Athleticism isn’t the be all end all for superstardom, your right. But the reason it’s so important to scouts and organizations is because it’s the only Skill set thing a player can’t acquire during his career. You just have to have it. If you have two guys, ones an athlete
For RJ’s game which is based on driving to the hoop he would need elite athleticism to be a superstar. Flat out. His strength can only get him so far, but without being able to leap over bigs or stay in the air longer to finish at a higher clip, he’ll always be leaving baskets on the table. The difference between a star and a superstar is going to be those 6-7 extra points a night.
He’s not a Luka type who is a superstar without athleticism because Luka has ELITE skills as a shooter and playmaker. RJ doesn’t have elite anything in his repertoire aside from drive and will. I’m not saying he’s gonna be a bum, i think he’ll be a very good player but there’s always gonna be a noticeable difference between him and guys like Tatum, Ingram and Luka in the next 4 years.

RJ is gonna be a 20-22 pt a night scorer. I don’t think he’ll have enough to be a 26-28 pt a night scorer.

Luka is not an elite shooter. He only shoots 32.5% from 3
Yet with his average athleticism he is able to thrive because the Mavs surround him with shooting so he can operate when he drives to the paint, the bread and butter of his game, not shooting

What have the Knicks surrounded RJ with?

But Luka is a transcendental talent no doubt

You also underestimate RJ' ability as a playmaker
Hard to assess him as a playmaker when he is not even the primary or secondary ball handler
We are instead forced to watch Payton or Randle ball
He nearly had a triple double this season in Chicago

But we need more time than just his rookie season to make that assessment but that's just me
It's okay that our opinions differ but I always find it odd how posters on here can place a cap on a player's ceiling based on such a small sample size

 

[Wargames]

Posters on here seem to forget he’s only 20/21 right now. Just like Lonzo and Oubre’s development it took them some time to put it together.

In here talking about trading for an aging PG with a large contract and a big who can’t play defense. Feels like 2012 all over again

Not even, the Knicks draft guys with higher ceilings who were younger. Knox Frank, Trier were taken for potential. Dotson and Mitch showed talent but fell for “off the court reasons” and RJ was the only one who came game ready.

this is all a process

 

[RickyGQ]

Luka is not an elite shooter. He only shoots 32.5% from 3
Yet with his average athleticism he is able to thrive because the Mavs surround him with shooting so he can operate when he drives to the paint, the bread and butter of his game, not shooting

What have the Knicks surrounded RJ with?

But Luka is a transcendental talent no doubt

You also underestimate RJ' ability as a playmaker
Hard to assess him as a playmaker when he is not even the primary or secondary ball handler
We are instead forced to watch Payton or Randle ball
He nearly had a triple double this season in Chicago

But we need more time than just his rookie season to make that assessment but that's just me
It's okay that our opinions differ but I always find it odd how posters on here can place a cap on a player's ceiling based on such a small sample size

RJ is not elite at any of those things. He’s not an elite passer, doesn’t have elite vision, doesn’t have elite b-ball iq. This is all fine, he’ll be a good player. But he’s to deliberate in his movements for me to think he’s gonna be a superstar. I just can’t see it. There is no wiggle in his game. That’s the shyt that probably hurt the most seeing MPJ this season. Just the way he moves you know that if he just works even a little bit on his game he’s outta here. Same with Ben Simmons. Whether they ever reach their ceilings is a different discussion but there ceilings are higher than RJ’s. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Not even, the Knicks draft guys with higher ceilings who were younger. Knox Frank, Trier were taken for potential. Dotson and Mitch showed talent but fell for “off the court reasons” and RJ was the only one who came game ready.

this is all a process

knicks fans on here talk about focusing on the young and development
guess what?
this is what it looks like
players looking like basura one moment and then looking like a future star the next
problem is knicks fans are used to overreacting and being stuck in the moment
knicks fans are not about that development life

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

RJ is not elite at any of those things. He’s not an elite passer, doesn’t have elite vision, doesn’t have elite b-ball iq. This is all fine, he’ll be a good player. He’s to deliberate in his movements for me to think he’s gonna be a superstar. I just can’t see it. There is no wiggle in his game. That’s the shyt that probably hurt the most seeing MPJ this season. Just the way he moves you know that if he just works even a little bit on his game he’s outta here. Same with Ben Simmons. Whether they ever reach their ceilings is a different discussion but there ceilings are higher than RJ’s. That’s all I’m saying.

again he needs to be the focal point of an offense before saying he can't do this and that

it's obvious he needs the ball in his hands

he's stuck in the corner like 80% of the time watching Randle, Payton, and Morris dominate the ball so how is he going to show how good he really is as a playmaker?
But I guess this is going to have to be one of those agree to disagree things

 

[RickyGQ]

Well done Detroit. You found the 1 Randle trade wouldnt do.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

I don’t get why the knicks hate issuing the g league ! Some of these players could use the reps, shyt frank needed it last year. Send Knox down already and let iggy play some minutes already. Atleast iggy plays with confidence.

trier should get minutes every game! They’ve blackballed him. Dude is going to ball out in another team y’all just watch.

season is a wrap brehs. Try and get Lamelo in the draft we need shooters on this team ASAP.


If we’re to make a jump into a ok team next year Kevin Knox needs to put some work into his game.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Well done Detroit. You found the 1 Randle trade wouldnt do.

I mean I want Randle the fukk out but damn not at the expense of frank. Imagine Mitch and Dre clogging up the paint all game.



perry should be fired right now.

 

[Ironman]

Well done Detroit. You found the 1 Randle trade wouldnt do.

If these jackasses don't hang up that phone...

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Yes trade Frank as he is finally starting to slowly tap into his offensive potential

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

RJ is not elite at any of those things. He’s not an elite passer, doesn’t have elite vision, doesn’t have elite b-ball iq. This is all fine, he’ll be a good player. But he’s to deliberate in his movements for me to think he’s gonna be a superstar. I just can’t see it. There is no wiggle in his game. That’s the shyt that probably hurt the most seeing MPJ this season. Just the way he moves you know that if he just works even a little bit on his game he’s outta here. Same with Ben Simmons. Whether they ever reach their ceilings is a different discussion but there ceilings are higher than RJ’s. That’s all I’m saying.

His court vision is one of his strengths. He displayed this at duke all last year.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

His court vision is one of his strengths. He displayed this at duke all last year.

his passing is the most underrated part of his game but sadly y'all won't get to see much of it this year with this RJ in the corner offense

that's why I am perplexed when people say all he has is drive and will?

there is a lot more to RJ's game than just drive and will

 

[Columbo]

I dont see how that Drummond trade really makes Detroit any better and ill be disgusted if we do that trade. I can feel myself getting an ulcer just thinking about it

 

[The War Report]

This is such a lateral ass move. This shyt does nothing.