Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[Miles Davis]

There is no way Dotson should be racking up DNP's. Right now all of Bullock's and Ellington's minutes should be going to Dotson and Trier, and considering that they're both playing better than those two, it really makes no sense that they aren't getting more minutes.

Miller playing for his job. Only way this changes is if the new FO makes the youth priority.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Miller playing for his job. Only way this changes is if the new FO makes the youth priority.

Playing Randle, Portis and Payton definitely ain’t helping his cause

 

[storyteller]

If you get a top 3 pick and hand the keys to said player, RJ, Mitch, and Trier next year, you should be straight

This is also contingent on shedding both Randle and Portis and getting better by subtraction

Solid tank season assuming you get the shytty vets the fukk up out of there

We'll definitely shed Portis. Randle might be tough to move but he'd be a very big expiring (he's on a team option the year after) so maybe someone bites on it. My dream offseason is drafting Edwards and landing Ingram. Let the trio of Edwards/RJ/Ingram be the engine while Mitch is free to own the paint in all that space.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

We'll definitely shed Portis. Randle might be tough to move but he'd be a very big expiring (he's on a team option the year after) so maybe someone bites on it. My dream offseason is drafting Edwards and landing Ingram. Let the trio of Edwards/RJ/Ingram be the engine while Mitch is free to own the paint in all that space.

The Knicks ain't getting Ingram
You guys just name players but a lot of players don't want anything to do with the Knicks
I assume Ingram doesn't want to leave a good situation w/ Zion to come to the Knicks
That's a step backwards from his point of view
The Knicks are toxic and no player wants to come here because they know
1) their career will die here
2) the fans will turn on them after half the season
3) the organization as a whole (from the owner all the way down to the coach and players)is retarded

I think RJ/Edwards is more realistic

RJ as point forward running the offense and getting his points while Edwards moves off ball and gets his points
Edwards can also run the offense in parts too
I still believe RJ can become a 25+ ppg scorer and that will bold well alongside Edwards who can definitely become a 25+ ppg scorer
If they both hit as picks you are looking at two cornerstone scorers to build the team around alongside Frank, Trier, Mitch, etc (Trier is GONE most likely though)
This is why I think JVG as coach is a good idea if the Knicks get Edwards since has has experience w/ Houston and Sprewell

 

[storyteller]

The Knicks ain't getting Ingram
You guys just name players but a lot of players don't want anything to do with the Knicks
I assume Ingram doesn't want to leave a good situation w/ Zion to come to the Knicks
That's a step backwards from his point of view
The Knicks are toxic and no player wants to come here because they know
1) their career will die here
2) the fans will turn on them after half the season
3) the organization as a whole (from the owner all the way down to the coach and players)is retarded

I think RJ/Edwards is more realistic

RJ as point forward running the offense and getting his points while Edwards moves off ball and gets his points
Edwards can also run the offense in parts too
I still believe RJ can become a 25+ ppg scorer and that will bold well alongside Edwards who can definitely become a 25+ ppg scorer
If they both hit as picks you are looking at two cornerstone scorers to build the team around alongside Frank, Trier, Mitch, etc (Trier is GONE most likely though)
This is why I think JVG as coach is a good idea if the Knicks get Edwards since has has experience w/ Houston and Sprewell

Ingram's not as long a shot as I thought originally. This article from last week got my hopes up:
Pelicans Rumors: 'Most' Execs Don't Believe Brandon Ingram Is Worth Max Contract

New Orleans Pelicans star Brandon Ingram is having the best season of his career and was named to the NBA All-Star team for the first time, but his pending restricted free agency is proving to be a divisive issue for executives around the sport.

Per ESPN's Tim Bontemps, "most" executives don't think Ingram is worth a max contract this summer.

One executive speculated to Bontemps that Pelicans executive vice president of basketball operations David Griffin could attempt to "hardball Ingram and say, 'Get an offer'" this summer.

New Orleans could find itself in a good negotiating position with Ingram because of the limited number of teams with cap space this offseason.

Per Early Bird Rights, the only teams that project to have enough cap space to offer a max contract are the Atlanta Hawks, Detroit Pistons, Memphis Grizzlies and New York Knicks.

So
a) The Pelicans might not want to max him for money reasons.
b) Outside of the Grizzlies, the other teams that can offer him a max are doing as badly as we are.
c) You make a lot of assumptions about mindset but none of that is certain and mindsets change with the highest contract offer.

Ingram is far from guaranteed. But I'm offering him a max. I took a cynical side of not wasting time on Brogdon last year and he'd have been a much better investment than what we did. I wouldn't make that mistake again. Chase Ingram and have a plan B if it doesn't work out. This FA class isn't good enough to ignore a high level player that's an age and skillset fit to our needs.

Agreed on Edwards though. I'd love to have an offense where 1-4 can all attack a pick and roll or run a play (still including Ingram in that math). It's not a likely scenario in either case, but there's a chance for both and I believe that's our best case scenario. We need actual plan B's, C's and D's of course. But this is the dream offseason for me and it's longshot but not a pipedream.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Ingram's not as long a shot as I thought originally. This article from last week got my hopes up:
Pelicans Rumors: 'Most' Execs Don't Believe Brandon Ingram Is Worth Max Contract



So
a) The Pelicans might not want to max him for money reasons.
b) Outside of the Grizzlies, the other teams that can offer him a max are doing as badly as we are.
c) You make a lot of assumptions about mindset but none of that is certain and mindsets change with the highest contract offer.

Ingram is far from guaranteed. But I'm offering him a max. I took a cynical side of not wasting time on Brogdon last year and he'd have been a much better investment than what we did. I wouldn't make that mistake again. Chase Ingram and have a plan B if it doesn't work out. This FA class isn't good enough to ignore a high level player that's an age and skillset fit to our needs.

Agreed on Edwards though. I'd love to have an offense where 1-4 can all attack a pick and roll or run a play (still including Ingram in that math). It's not a likely scenario in either case, but there's a chance for both and I believe that's our best case scenario. We need actual plan B's, C's and D's of course. But this is the dream offseason for me and it's longshot but not a pipedream.

It's not only about money
Players don't want to come to NY and looking at this year alone, you know why
Who would want to come to a team and organization where there are low IQ people on all levels?
Look at RJ and how he is used here and tell me I'm wrong?
Got a bunch of low IQ selfish want to pad their stats ball dominant non shooters surrounding a non shooter and dumbass fans who evaluate him under these circumstances
Their #3 pick is being thrown to the wayside for the sake of Oops Woops Handles and Payton
that's the knicks
no IMPACTFUL max level star will come here until the culture changes
instead you'll get the Oops Woops Handles types

 

[tremonthustler1]

Get ready for LaMelo unless Cleveland wants to be idiots

 

[storyteller]

It's not only about money
Players don't want to come to NY and looking at this year alone, you know why
Who would want to come to a team and organization where there are low IQ people on all levels?
Look at RJ and how he is used here and tell me I'm wrong?
Got a bunch of low IQ selfish want to pad their stats ball dominant non shooters surrounding a non shooter and dumbass fans who evaluate him under these circumstances
Their #3 pick is being thrown to the wayside for the sake of Oops Woops Handles and Payton
that's the knicks
no IMPACTFUL max level star will come here until the culture changes
instead you'll get the Oops Woops Handles types

This is just your frustration with the franchise. Detroit is a better option? If Memphis and NO aren't interested in maxing him, we're competing with two teams that have been just as bad as us, suddenly the big market is actually an advantage again. That's not to mention is Leon Rose has any secret sauce to help. Plus it's not like I'm guaranteeing this ish. I'm saying there's a chance. If you claim there's zero chance, you're flat out wrong.

What's the problem with making an offer exactly?

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

This is just your frustration with the franchise. Detroit is a better option? If Memphis and NO aren't interested in maxing him, we're competing with two teams that have been just as bad as us, suddenly the big market is actually an advantage again. That's not to mention is Leon Rose has any secret sauce to help. Plus it's not like I'm guaranteeing this ish. I'm saying there's a chance. If you claim there's zero chance, you're flat out wrong.

What's the problem with making an offer exactly?

It's not about the Knicks being bad
It's about the Knicks culture
The culture here is not good and players care about that
Shaq was on tv and said a lot of players tell him they don't want to go to the knicks because they believe the entire management stinks
Stars know if they come here from observing history alone things won't end well
Whether it's shyt coaches like Fizdale or idiot owners like Dolan or snakes like Mills, players notice the dysfunction and don't want to risk fukking up their careers coming here
They watch the games and they follow Knicks news
They know about the lack of player development, collection of low IQ players every season, shyt coaches and constant coach/roster change, the ny media, and Dolan
The Knicks will continue to get Dubious Handles level players
The appeal of playing in the garden or the mecca or playing in ny is not a strong selling point

 

[Wargames]

I get what you’re saying Deep but Storyteller is right if we can get Ingram we should. There aren’t better options this FA. Is it likely, probably not. However, it would be smart basketball to at least try, and then if/when it fails have a back up plan.

The knicks suck.... the fact that this thread is a graveyard shows that.

Maybe Leon Rose fixes this idk. Thibs seems to be the coach and we’ll see what he can do. This team has defensive pieces his systems needs. Anthony Edwards would be a dream draft for him as a HC.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

I get what you’re saying Deep but Storyteller is right if we can get Ingram we should. There aren’t better options this FA. The knicks suck.... the fact that this thread is a graveyard shows that.

Maybe Leon Rose fixes this idk.

I'm not saying there is a 0% chance the Knicks get Ingram
They could possibly get him
I'm just saying I believe the Knicks are not in Ingram's radar and he will try to do everything not to come here if given other options
Most likely the Pels extend him

 

[Wargames]

I'm not saying there is a 0% chance the Knicks get Ingram
They could possibly get him
I'm just saying I believe the Knicks are not in Ingram's radar and he will try to do everything not to come here if given other options
Most likely the Pels extend him

I hear you, and expect that as well. Though if we offer the most for him he might blink. In fact the only reason he might come is the Knicks have a Full Max. I would see if they could trade the #25 pick to the Thunder with Randle or absorb the last year of Otto for

 

[ISO]

at most execs not believing Ingram is worth a max

 

[storyteller]

I get what you’re saying Deep but Storyteller is right if we can get Ingram we should. There aren’t better options this FA. Is it likely, probably not. However, it would be smart basketball to at least try, and then if/when it fails have a back up plan.

The knicks suck.... the fact that this thread is a graveyard shows that.

Maybe Leon Rose fixes this idk. Thibs seems to be the coach and we’ll see what he can do. This team has defensive pieces his systems needs. Anthony Edwards would be a dream draft for him as a HC.

This is it fam. There isn't an FA that I'm worried we'll miss out on even if courting Ingram fails and we waste a week or a two. Plus if I'm not mistaken even with a max offer we'd have some wiggle room to make additional offers (move Randle and maybe even more).

I literally had the same mindset on Brogdon of don't bother, it'll just waste time. Dude wound up relocating for less than I'd have paid him.

I'm not saying there is a 0% chance the Knicks get Ingram
They could possibly get him
I'm just saying I believe the Knicks are not in Ingram's radar and he will try to do everything not to come here if given other options
Most likely the Pels extend him

The only ones who could be other options are NO, Memphis, Detroit and ATL and that's it. NO and Memphis we're blown out, the other two; I don't think it's as easy a decision.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

I hear you, and expect that as well. Though if we offer the most for him he might blink.

Notice the players the Knicks give the most money to always suck or are Dubious Handles types?
Stars like Ingram don't only care about money and I think that's a reasonable assumption given what I know about him as a player and his personality
If money were everything, AD wouldn't demand a trade from the Pels when he could have gotten the most money from them
It's about legacy and culture for a lot of these players who are passionate about winning
That's why you have the paycut days when players were forming super teams
Ingram will look at the toxic Knicks culture and will weigh that in his decision making despite extra money