knickscrusaderm
lead by example
We’re 3 seasons in and he hasn’t developed one offensive skill yet.
how much longer do you nikkas plan to coddle him?
Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread
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how much longer do you nikkas plan to coddle him?
Deep_Black_Conscious
Superstar
Funny how the only lineups that work are the ones that don't feature Randle
Knicks FO fukked this up. They underestimated how good RJ would be right out the gate
Luckily the worst contract is Randle and he will be gone after next season unless they trade him
(hopefully this season)
Imagine if all these contract were 4-5 year deals like the old dumb ass FO would give out to trash
the next guy
Superstar
what can the knicks move for D'Angelo Russell?
knickscrusaderm
lead by example
Deep_Black_Conscious
Superstar
Yes pleaseAll the pgs except DSJ hopefully.
maybe randle?
not worried about RJ & Knox. we should give out free daps and reps when either one of them score 30 for the first time...
that was my initial thought too but i think Frank would be better off as a 6th man. he’s not a pure 1, 2, or 3 but because of his physicality, he can do a little bit of each. I’d rather he come off the bench (along with Randle).
This is going to be a long season brehs. I almost lost my shyt with Morris and Randle playing iso at the end. They DO NOT mesh well together!!! shyt is so frustrating...... Fiz doesn’t seem to realize that and doesn’t hold them accountable. Another game where we see Randle dribble in the post lose the ball off of his leg
We could’ve lost by much worse if Orlando was making their shots.our interior defense and rebounding was terrible.
Wayne Ellington and Marcus Morris shot us the fukk out this game too.
the last like 5 knicks games I’ve been too have been losses. I’m going to stop wasting my money.
Rant over
We could’ve lost by much worse if Orlando was making their shots.our interior defense and rebounding was terrible.
Wayne Ellington and Marcus Morris shot us the fukk out this game too.
the last like 5 knicks games I’ve been too have been losses. I’m going to stop wasting my money.
Rant over
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Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
Well Elfrid by default again. I like Morris in the rotation over the other bigs though.not worried about RJ & Knox. we should give out free daps and reps when either one of them score 30 for the first time...
that was my initial thought too but i think Frank would be better off as a 6th man. he’s not a pure 1, 2, or 3 but because of his physicality, he can do a little bit of each. I’d rather he come off the bench (along with Randle).
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
I agree, we can't be having all our vets on their taking the minutes. I'm being patient on when Fiz will see the obvious.This is going to be a long season brehs. I almost lost my shyt with Morris and Randle playing iso at the end. They DO NOT mesh well together!!! shyt is so frustrating...... Fiz doesn’t seem to realize that and doesn’t hold them accountable. Another game where we see Randle dribble in the post lose the ball off of his leg
We could’ve lost by much worse if Orlando was making their shots.our interior defense and rebounding was terrible.
Wayne Ellington and Marcus Morris shot us the fukk out this game too.
the last like 5 knicks games I’ve been too have been losses. I’m going to stop wasting my money.
seemorecizzy
Superstar
we clearly got different defintions of what a starting point guard is in this league
im just askin dis guy to atleast be george hill or something.
he doesnt have it in him on a consistent basis
storyteller
Veteran
The Knicks took an 80-79 lead with 8 minutes left in the fourth quarter last night against the Magic before pulling a disappearing act. They managed 3 more points for the rest of the game, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory by reverting to the bad habits that have haunted their early season play. In an 83-95 loss, Julius Randle had his best game of the season for 3 and a half quarters before regressing to forced isolations. Marcus Morris and RJ Barrett were shut down. Without the production from those three players, the Knicks were left without the necessary firepower to take advantage of a nice defensive effort. The spacing continues to hamper literally every Knick player. Bright spots appear when they move to modern spacing. A wing tandem of Dot and Knox, with big man Bobby Portis stretching the floor as well, seemed to spark late momentum for the Knicks but as soon as they got away from that sort of combination things fell apart. Here's a deeper look...
Barrett: RJ Barrett's proven a solid main ball handler in short spurts, but on his extended runs as the PG the results haven't stuck. Barrett saw his production dip across the board as starting PG for the Knicks and got the most out of his production when guarded by and guarding wings. The prize rookie posts 9 points, 2 boards and 2 assists to 2 turnovers in 31 minutes. RJ's jumper is coming back to Earth as he shot 1/4 from three and 4/11 overall, dealing with a Magic team that was content to pinch in rather than chase players out to the three point line. It was also Barrett's most pedestrian defensive showing. He wasn't terrible on that end, but did not have the same impact that we had seen in his prior efforts. The good news is that he didn't force the issue, the bad news is that he isn't the answer for the Knicks at PG at this current stage in his development.
Ellington: Much was made of the decision to start Wayne Ellington instead of putting a true PG on the floor last night. I didn't oppose that because Ellington's shooting would help spacing, but then the Knicks' best shooter came up empty. Ellington shot 1/8 from the field and 0/5 from three over a 19 minute span. The Magic were able to cheat off of everyone else in the starting unit while keeping a defender close enough to disturb every shot the starting SG put up. It doesn't help that the Knicks don't have very creative ways to get this guy open. They run some curls and do have off ball action, but there's no misdirection with the ball handler involved. The result is that you can see a Wayne Ellington jumper coming a mile away right now.
Morris: I hate to hammer Marcus Morris after his defensive effort last night. Mook contributed 4 blocks while facing a tough individual match-up in Aaron Gordon. That said, Morris shot 2/11 and 1/5 in spite of having some of the best three point looks he's gotten all season. Morris added 9 points, 5 rebounds and a steal to the 4 blocks on the stat sheet over his 31 minutes of burn. None of that is good enough for a team that really needs his scoring. To make matters worse, this is all a trend. He's shooting 35% from the field over the first five games of the season. Mook's also averaging over 30 mpg but has just 2 assists in the first games combined...mind you he's averaging 2 TO's a game while he's at it.
Morris had a great debut and has had 4 struggle sessions since. He's simply not the right fit at SF for the combination Coach Fizdale has gone with thus far. None of the typical starters have gravity to space the floor and that means Mook is isolating in traffic without much off ball movement even if he did want to find open shooters. Simply put, he's probably best suited to spend more time as a PF and less time as an ill fitting wing next to two big men that operate almost entirely inside the three point line.
Randle: Julius Randle came close to having a truly great performance. He spent three quarters picking his spots to attack and taking what the defense gave him. But when the game tightened up in the fourth, Randle began to force the issue again and the team predictably unraveled. That said, this is not a performance to get too down on. We got a real glimpse of how difficult the Knicks big FA acquisition is to guard when he's not forcing the issue. Randle put up 16 points, 10 boards and 7 assists to 3 TO's over his 37 minutes of play. He also shot 7/13 from the field although he missed both his three point attempts.
The real problem is that Randle seemed to save all of his misses, forces and TO's for the crucial fourth quarter minutes. He had played great offense and solid defense, but got completely away from that when his play mattered the most. Fizdale yelled at Portis "don't be a hero" but the advice was better served for Randle. He lost his faith in teammates (easy to do with how poorly everyone shot) and got frustrated by great defense from Jonathon Isaac. Someone needed to cool him down and get him focused. I'd also have liked to see him setting picks for ball handlers but more on that later.
Mitch: I kind of get why Mitchell Robinson had his second half minutes cut, but I don't agree with the move. Robinson had by far his best half of the early season in the first. The sophomore big man was fed on multiple pick and roll plays, establishing a bit of chemistry with Randle early on. Mitch also did a fine job of blocking shots without picking up needless fouls. Mitch added 12 points, 5 boards, 2 assists and 3 blocks in just 19 minutes. That was on 4/6 shooting and 4/4 from the line. He gave up some buckets from Vucevic but that's a tough match up and he did pretty well with it, all things considered.
But Mitch couldn't get off the bench for most of the second half...a victim of the spacing I keep harping on. The Magic didn't bother to follow Robinson outside of 16 feet from the basket and the Knicks didn't have anything in their offensive scheme to address that. The only solution was to either bench the promising young big man or to bench someone like Randle or Portis, both of whom were more productive and required attention further out. I'd still have used Mitch personally, but I understand the logic even if I don't agree with his benching.
Frank: The saga of Frank Ntilikina continued with a great offensive first quarter and beautiful defensive for all four quarters, but his game continues to be held back by an inability to get his jumpers falling. Frank put up 7 points, 4 assists and 4 boards in 29 minutes and went 3/8 plus 1/3 from three. The problem is that his one three point make was a buzzer beating rushed shot while his two misses were with time and standing in his own area code. The kid was better off rushing and having to trust his instincts than with time to overthink his form and footwork. With the floor spacing that the Knicks had most of the night, good luck expecting any Knicks PG to get into the paint consistently (when RJ Barrett is being held out of the paint, it's time to stop blaming Frank's mentality and focus on why no one else is getting inside effectively either).
This is what kills me though. The Knicks best run of play happened with Frank alongside two wings that can shoot (Dot and Knox). He didn't post numbers in that spurt, but his impact was visible. At one point when Knox got complacent, you could see and hear Frank calling out to him to move into place to receive the ball. This sort of stuff is promising even if it isn't measurable. That said, when the Knicks are playing without proper spacing, it's worth considering a guy like Trier who can attack a double-team off the dribble with his superior ball handling...although the defense might be in trouble then. Frank was superb defensively in a game where the Knicks defense was the lone bright spot.
Dot: Damyean Dotson got his feet wet and similar to Frank in Chicago, his muted box score numbers are hiding a broader positive impact. In 13 minutes, Dotson put up 2 points, 2 assists and 2 boards with 1 TO caused by a bit of pressing when he first hit the floor. Dotson didn't clock a FGA, but did get fouled on a three point attempt. When Ellington doesn't have it, this guy is worth giving a bit of extra time to look at. Dot was solid everywhere; his off ball motion helps ball handlers and isn't as predictable as Wayne's and his defense is reliable when he's paired with another good defender. Dotson should get a longer look.
Knox: This felt like a game where Kevin Knox should shine. The Magic's defensive scheme left plenty of space for shooters and Knox has been great with even a bit of room to shoot. But good defensive play from guys like Aminu really hampered the Knicks young sophomore by chasing him off of the three point line and into the traffic inside. Knox was forced to pull-up for midrange rushed shots a few times when he probably should have driven hard and looked to draw fouls. The youngster still found his positive impact, especially when the Knicks spread the floor more for him to operate. That said, Knox had a muted output on a night where he probably could have had a much bigger production.
Knox posted 10 points, 2 assists and 3 boards on 3/10 shooting and 2/5 from three. His field goals all came in a second half flurry when the Knicks needed to mount a comeback though. This was promising in that Knox struggled early but found ways to score. That said, it's still more potential and upside than results for the promising youngster.
Gibson: The Knicks may have finally found a way to get Taj Gibson going late, but his early season struggles were still on display for the better part of his 9 minutes of play. Gibson added 4 points, a rebound and a block on 2/4 from the field. The two misses came on bunnies inside. The two makes happened on pick and pop plays to the elbow. Maybe that's what Taj needs to get going, a focus on midrange attempts rather than long range or interior scoring. His defense is solid but he's not the rim protector or the mobile defender that Fizdale needs next to Bobby Portis.
Portis: It's hard for me to place this performance from Bobby Portis. He put 12 points and 10 rebounds in 29 minutes and his effort on defense is easily commendable. He gave the Knicks some needed baskets and continues to be the one big man who is consistently willing to shoot at range. But the problem for Portis is that sometimes he does too much offensively. The back-up center shot 5/11 from the field and 2/7 from three, prompting Fizdale to audibly tell him not to try and be a hero. Bobby's intensity and effort is needed just as much as his floor spacing, but his impact is fairly reliant on the rest of the players moving the ball. When Randle and Morris went into takeover mode, Portis just exacerbated the issue. Yet when the floor stretching youth paired with a ball moving Randle, Portis thrived. It's an interesting conundrum.
Fizdale: So David Fizdale and Randle kinda go hand in hand at this point. The Knicks coach is so reliant on Randle that this makes sense. The ball is constantly in Randle's hands and the offense is keyed to either wings or forwards attacking off the dribble right now. Maybe that's why I felt pretty good about most of Fizdale's decisions until the same period of time where Randle folded. In that span we saw a no PG set with Kevin Knox as the 2 guard. Fizdale also got away from what sealed the game against Chicago...a brief rant:
For three games the Knicks would go into droughts where Randle and Morris would start to press to try and bail them out. The ball would find its way into one of their hands on the perimeter with little, if any, action off of the ball. This led to really inefficient isolations from both. The big revelation in Chicago was to put the ball in RJ Barrett's hands instead and have Randle be the screen man. Randle would make a short roll to open space and receive the ball needing just one or two dribbles to get to the rim and make a move to pass or shoot. This worked like a charm. The Knicks didn't do this even a little bit during the final 8 minutes against Orlando where a 1 point lead became a 12 point loss.
For most of the night Fizdale put balanced line-ups on the floor and the Knicks competed. I didn't hate the RJ at PG experiment but I don't think any backcourt combination is resolving the starting line-up's issues. Spacing is gonna take Morris sliding to the four or bench. But what has me frustrated in the early going is that Fizdale seems to go away from things that work. Ellington was a spark in Brooklyn and a DNP-Coach's Decision against Boston the next game. The Knicks closed strong against Chicago and did none of what worked when they closed in Orlando. I'm not sure if the rotation is due to front office pressure, concerns about player attitudes (we had complaints in the preseason, it's combustible) or if Fizdale just really likes big men. But there are visible problems that just don't seem to be addressed. An upgrade at PG might help, but putting players into modern NBA spacing and into better positions to be productive would probably help without demanding any moves from the front office. It will be easier to know if I'm right when Fizdale finally makes an adjustment though.
Barrett: RJ Barrett's proven a solid main ball handler in short spurts, but on his extended runs as the PG the results haven't stuck. Barrett saw his production dip across the board as starting PG for the Knicks and got the most out of his production when guarded by and guarding wings. The prize rookie posts 9 points, 2 boards and 2 assists to 2 turnovers in 31 minutes. RJ's jumper is coming back to Earth as he shot 1/4 from three and 4/11 overall, dealing with a Magic team that was content to pinch in rather than chase players out to the three point line. It was also Barrett's most pedestrian defensive showing. He wasn't terrible on that end, but did not have the same impact that we had seen in his prior efforts. The good news is that he didn't force the issue, the bad news is that he isn't the answer for the Knicks at PG at this current stage in his development.
Ellington: Much was made of the decision to start Wayne Ellington instead of putting a true PG on the floor last night. I didn't oppose that because Ellington's shooting would help spacing, but then the Knicks' best shooter came up empty. Ellington shot 1/8 from the field and 0/5 from three over a 19 minute span. The Magic were able to cheat off of everyone else in the starting unit while keeping a defender close enough to disturb every shot the starting SG put up. It doesn't help that the Knicks don't have very creative ways to get this guy open. They run some curls and do have off ball action, but there's no misdirection with the ball handler involved. The result is that you can see a Wayne Ellington jumper coming a mile away right now.
Morris: I hate to hammer Marcus Morris after his defensive effort last night. Mook contributed 4 blocks while facing a tough individual match-up in Aaron Gordon. That said, Morris shot 2/11 and 1/5 in spite of having some of the best three point looks he's gotten all season. Morris added 9 points, 5 rebounds and a steal to the 4 blocks on the stat sheet over his 31 minutes of burn. None of that is good enough for a team that really needs his scoring. To make matters worse, this is all a trend. He's shooting 35% from the field over the first five games of the season. Mook's also averaging over 30 mpg but has just 2 assists in the first games combined...mind you he's averaging 2 TO's a game while he's at it.
Morris had a great debut and has had 4 struggle sessions since. He's simply not the right fit at SF for the combination Coach Fizdale has gone with thus far. None of the typical starters have gravity to space the floor and that means Mook is isolating in traffic without much off ball movement even if he did want to find open shooters. Simply put, he's probably best suited to spend more time as a PF and less time as an ill fitting wing next to two big men that operate almost entirely inside the three point line.
Randle: Julius Randle came close to having a truly great performance. He spent three quarters picking his spots to attack and taking what the defense gave him. But when the game tightened up in the fourth, Randle began to force the issue again and the team predictably unraveled. That said, this is not a performance to get too down on. We got a real glimpse of how difficult the Knicks big FA acquisition is to guard when he's not forcing the issue. Randle put up 16 points, 10 boards and 7 assists to 3 TO's over his 37 minutes of play. He also shot 7/13 from the field although he missed both his three point attempts.
The real problem is that Randle seemed to save all of his misses, forces and TO's for the crucial fourth quarter minutes. He had played great offense and solid defense, but got completely away from that when his play mattered the most. Fizdale yelled at Portis "don't be a hero" but the advice was better served for Randle. He lost his faith in teammates (easy to do with how poorly everyone shot) and got frustrated by great defense from Jonathon Isaac. Someone needed to cool him down and get him focused. I'd also have liked to see him setting picks for ball handlers but more on that later.
Mitch: I kind of get why Mitchell Robinson had his second half minutes cut, but I don't agree with the move. Robinson had by far his best half of the early season in the first. The sophomore big man was fed on multiple pick and roll plays, establishing a bit of chemistry with Randle early on. Mitch also did a fine job of blocking shots without picking up needless fouls. Mitch added 12 points, 5 boards, 2 assists and 3 blocks in just 19 minutes. That was on 4/6 shooting and 4/4 from the line. He gave up some buckets from Vucevic but that's a tough match up and he did pretty well with it, all things considered.
But Mitch couldn't get off the bench for most of the second half...a victim of the spacing I keep harping on. The Magic didn't bother to follow Robinson outside of 16 feet from the basket and the Knicks didn't have anything in their offensive scheme to address that. The only solution was to either bench the promising young big man or to bench someone like Randle or Portis, both of whom were more productive and required attention further out. I'd still have used Mitch personally, but I understand the logic even if I don't agree with his benching.
Frank: The saga of Frank Ntilikina continued with a great offensive first quarter and beautiful defensive for all four quarters, but his game continues to be held back by an inability to get his jumpers falling. Frank put up 7 points, 4 assists and 4 boards in 29 minutes and went 3/8 plus 1/3 from three. The problem is that his one three point make was a buzzer beating rushed shot while his two misses were with time and standing in his own area code. The kid was better off rushing and having to trust his instincts than with time to overthink his form and footwork. With the floor spacing that the Knicks had most of the night, good luck expecting any Knicks PG to get into the paint consistently (when RJ Barrett is being held out of the paint, it's time to stop blaming Frank's mentality and focus on why no one else is getting inside effectively either).
This is what kills me though. The Knicks best run of play happened with Frank alongside two wings that can shoot (Dot and Knox). He didn't post numbers in that spurt, but his impact was visible. At one point when Knox got complacent, you could see and hear Frank calling out to him to move into place to receive the ball. This sort of stuff is promising even if it isn't measurable. That said, when the Knicks are playing without proper spacing, it's worth considering a guy like Trier who can attack a double-team off the dribble with his superior ball handling...although the defense might be in trouble then. Frank was superb defensively in a game where the Knicks defense was the lone bright spot.
Dot: Damyean Dotson got his feet wet and similar to Frank in Chicago, his muted box score numbers are hiding a broader positive impact. In 13 minutes, Dotson put up 2 points, 2 assists and 2 boards with 1 TO caused by a bit of pressing when he first hit the floor. Dotson didn't clock a FGA, but did get fouled on a three point attempt. When Ellington doesn't have it, this guy is worth giving a bit of extra time to look at. Dot was solid everywhere; his off ball motion helps ball handlers and isn't as predictable as Wayne's and his defense is reliable when he's paired with another good defender. Dotson should get a longer look.
Knox: This felt like a game where Kevin Knox should shine. The Magic's defensive scheme left plenty of space for shooters and Knox has been great with even a bit of room to shoot. But good defensive play from guys like Aminu really hampered the Knicks young sophomore by chasing him off of the three point line and into the traffic inside. Knox was forced to pull-up for midrange rushed shots a few times when he probably should have driven hard and looked to draw fouls. The youngster still found his positive impact, especially when the Knicks spread the floor more for him to operate. That said, Knox had a muted output on a night where he probably could have had a much bigger production.
Knox posted 10 points, 2 assists and 3 boards on 3/10 shooting and 2/5 from three. His field goals all came in a second half flurry when the Knicks needed to mount a comeback though. This was promising in that Knox struggled early but found ways to score. That said, it's still more potential and upside than results for the promising youngster.
Gibson: The Knicks may have finally found a way to get Taj Gibson going late, but his early season struggles were still on display for the better part of his 9 minutes of play. Gibson added 4 points, a rebound and a block on 2/4 from the field. The two misses came on bunnies inside. The two makes happened on pick and pop plays to the elbow. Maybe that's what Taj needs to get going, a focus on midrange attempts rather than long range or interior scoring. His defense is solid but he's not the rim protector or the mobile defender that Fizdale needs next to Bobby Portis.
Portis: It's hard for me to place this performance from Bobby Portis. He put 12 points and 10 rebounds in 29 minutes and his effort on defense is easily commendable. He gave the Knicks some needed baskets and continues to be the one big man who is consistently willing to shoot at range. But the problem for Portis is that sometimes he does too much offensively. The back-up center shot 5/11 from the field and 2/7 from three, prompting Fizdale to audibly tell him not to try and be a hero. Bobby's intensity and effort is needed just as much as his floor spacing, but his impact is fairly reliant on the rest of the players moving the ball. When Randle and Morris went into takeover mode, Portis just exacerbated the issue. Yet when the floor stretching youth paired with a ball moving Randle, Portis thrived. It's an interesting conundrum.
Fizdale: So David Fizdale and Randle kinda go hand in hand at this point. The Knicks coach is so reliant on Randle that this makes sense. The ball is constantly in Randle's hands and the offense is keyed to either wings or forwards attacking off the dribble right now. Maybe that's why I felt pretty good about most of Fizdale's decisions until the same period of time where Randle folded. In that span we saw a no PG set with Kevin Knox as the 2 guard. Fizdale also got away from what sealed the game against Chicago...a brief rant:
For three games the Knicks would go into droughts where Randle and Morris would start to press to try and bail them out. The ball would find its way into one of their hands on the perimeter with little, if any, action off of the ball. This led to really inefficient isolations from both. The big revelation in Chicago was to put the ball in RJ Barrett's hands instead and have Randle be the screen man. Randle would make a short roll to open space and receive the ball needing just one or two dribbles to get to the rim and make a move to pass or shoot. This worked like a charm. The Knicks didn't do this even a little bit during the final 8 minutes against Orlando where a 1 point lead became a 12 point loss.
For most of the night Fizdale put balanced line-ups on the floor and the Knicks competed. I didn't hate the RJ at PG experiment but I don't think any backcourt combination is resolving the starting line-up's issues. Spacing is gonna take Morris sliding to the four or bench. But what has me frustrated in the early going is that Fizdale seems to go away from things that work. Ellington was a spark in Brooklyn and a DNP-Coach's Decision against Boston the next game. The Knicks closed strong against Chicago and did none of what worked when they closed in Orlando. I'm not sure if the rotation is due to front office pressure, concerns about player attitudes (we had complaints in the preseason, it's combustible) or if Fizdale just really likes big men. But there are visible problems that just don't seem to be addressed. An upgrade at PG might help, but putting players into modern NBA spacing and into better positions to be productive would probably help without demanding any moves from the front office. It will be easier to know if I'm right when Fizdale finally makes an adjustment though.
storyteller
Veteran
Have you seen Russell's contract though? Just wait for the draft and start looking at stop gaps while the young PG develops. This dude Fred Van Vleet'll prolly cost half the price on his contract and we won't have to trade anything to chase him.
Bogdanovic is who I'd look at trades wise. Not a PG, but a wing with some playmaking ability that can also stretch the floor.
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