RJ will improve but Randles free throw shooting is trash as fukk and he’s been in the nba for years.
Fiz gotta realize it somehow that Randle and Morris do not fit well.
Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread
- Thread starter DPresidential
- Start date
- Status
Fiz gotta realize it somehow that Randle and Morris do not fit well.
storyteller
Veteran
It may have helped that the Knicks last performance against the Celtics was abysmal, but the Knicks left Boston with their heads held high after losing to a buzzer beater 102-104. On a night where Julius Randle failed to score in double-figures and had more turnovers than assists; Marcus Morris stepped up to shoulder the scoring burden while a tighter rotation allowed Fizdale to test out a new defensive plan. The Knicks switched on virtually everything which is a double-edged sword. There were far fewer breakdowns in communication that normally lead to easy open looks, but Kemba Walker and Jayson Tatum were also able to exploit the switching in order to pick and choose their preferred match-ups. So we got a lot of Walker attacking Julius Randle or Bobby Portis in one on one situations. Still, the defense held fairly strong and forced Boston to rely on a last second, tough jumper from Tatum to claim victory. That's a dramatic shift from the blowout loss and "We want Tacko" chants we just witnessed at the Garden. Let's see why...
Ntilikina: It has been a steady ascent from DNP's to 38 minutes of play for Frank over the brief 6 games of this season. This time, the Knicks enigmatic prospect added a bit more meat to his box score but his impact continues to be hidden behind intangibles such as his help defense. Ntilikina started the game with a chasedown block on Marcus Smart that set the tone for defensive effort for a third game running. Frank added 3 steals to that block on the defensive side of the box score. Offensively, he posted 10 points and 2 assists on 4/9 from the field and 2/4 from three while adding in 3 boards as well. That 50% from three feels like an important step, but perhaps more important is that Frank knocked down two jumpers with no hesitation in fourth quarter crunch time minutes.
The 2 assist total (to 1 turnover) is probably a bit that Frank's critics can harp on to demean his performance. But I have a feeling the Boston score keeper was playing a little tight with the assist tracking. Frank made some very nice passes in transition situations that got Knick players the ball in mismatches for one or two dribble attacks to score. The French youngster's increased minutes have conspicuously come at a time when the Knicks ball movement as a team has improved. His defense is undeniable and his offensive output has begun to show signs of life. Love him or hate him, the Knicks have looked like a better team when Frank has been out there in the early going...and that dates back to preseason.
Barrett: RJ Barrett may have pressed the issue a bit for the first time in NBA career and I wasn't really mad at it. The Knicks rookie got the ball in his hands a lot more during crunch time and he went into attack mode. I wasn't mad at the attempts he got up, but the rookie missed the shots and failed to get whistles...he didn't turn into a turnover machine like Randle has in those situations though. RJ's low efficiency as a scorer was really the only blemish on an otherwise good all around effort though. The Duke product put up 15 points, 5 assists and 7 boards on 5/17 from the field, 1/4 from three and 4/6 from the line.
We still got heads up passing when the C's tried to trap the kid. He continues to be a bull that can get into the paint virtually at will. The only issue now is that his jumper is coming back down to Earth and the refs aren't giving him the same benefit of the whistle yet that veterans have earned. Add to that, RJ's free throws are nerve wracking events so far and we can see pretty clearly where the kid has to put in the most work to graduate into a number one option. But even with the growing pains, the Knicks are most fun to watch when Fizdale and the big vets put their trust in the Knicks' two youngest guards to handle the rock and set up the offense. Frank gets the ball moving and RJ gets the team attacking North to South while both of these youngsters are playing defense at a level well beyond their years.
Morris: Leave it to Marcus Morris to explode from three and as a scorer right after I mention moving him to the bench. On a night when RJ and Randle both struggled, it was Marcus Morris who took on the burden of scoring. Mook put up 29 points, 9 rebounds and 3 assists while shooting 8/17 and knocking down 5/8 three pointers...easily his best performance of the season. The difference maker was forcing less isolations and letting the game come to him more often. We didn't get much off the dribble, contests jump shooting last night. That was replaced with catch and shoot makes plus more moving the ball...he had 2 assists all season before last night.
This absolutely has to be said as well. Marcus Morris has been playing some very nice defense. The Knicks' switching scheme allowed the C's to hide from Morris a bit and aim for easier match-ups, but the fact that it was clear they wanted no parts of Mook is telling. The Philly native added 2 steals and deserves a ton of props for being a defensive presence while also providing offense. He was great last night, full stop.
Randle: I watch Randle make some nice passes and draw a ton of attention whenever he has the ball and it's hard for me not to root for this guy. You can tell he's fighting some bad habits and also trying to figure out how to deal with being the focus of entire defenses. That said, this work in progress includes plenty of frustration that are going to try the patience of Knicks fans everywhere. Randle put up 8 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists to 6 TO's. The turnover rate continues to be a nightmare but there are signs of maturation even in this early going.
Randle went 3/7 and 0/3 from long range. That makes 1 miss inside the three point line aka, our big man didn't force shots up when the defense collapsed on him. Even the turnovers in this one included some attempts at making the pass rather than just poor ball handling with no where to go. In the fourth quarter, Randle was utilized more in two man situations which was something I specifically asked for. The C's simply chose to force RJ to try and beat them instead of Randle. I'll take these sorts of growing pains, I think Randle is turning a corner even though the TO's haven't come down yet. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic.
One last note...for as tough as Kemba was on Randle in multiple switch situations, I commend his defensive effort. The defensive scheme didn't do him any favors but he was visibly giving effort in spite of some lapses and mistakes. He can grow there too.
Mitch: Cue the hook for "Got Til It's Gone" because when Mitchell Robinson left the game with a hand injury, my heart damn near stopped...spacing be damned. Mitch has had his minutes limited for much of this season between foul trouble and limited spacing when he plays. But Robinson isn't just one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's the Knicks only one. That crucial impact was felt when Mitch left the game hurt and then returned to provide a few strong minutes late. Mitch only played 16 minutes but posted 6 points, 6 boards and 2 blocks in that limited time. The rotation isn't ideal for the Knicks' rim running big, but he needs more time and probably more pick and roll opportunities.
Ellington: Wayne Ellington needs to hit a hot streak soon, because Knicks fans have a lot of love for the two guys who aren't getting minutes behind the would-be sharp shooter. Ellington had another poor shooting night, going 3/10 on all three point attempts. Ellington scattered 9 points, 3 assists and 5 boards over a 24 minute stint where his shooting was the only real downside to his game. The Knicks' best floor spacer continues to be a revelation in off ball movement that I truly wish Allonzo Trier will take note of and emulate (imagine Iso Zo being just elusive off the ball as he is with it in his hands). Defensively Ellington isn't perfect but his effort is undeniable and makes for positive minutes on that end.
But none of the intangibles that we're seeing will be able to overcome sustained poor shooting. You can't take 10 three pointers and only have 9 points to show for it when you are the Knicks most important shooter. Especially when Damyean Dotson can mimic that off ball movement somewhat and Allonzo Trier can smoke that efficiency on a typical night. Those guys have their own issues to address as players but they're good enough to hang in the back of fans' minds when the Knicks lose by slim margins.
Knox: It feels like Kevin Knox starts games slowly but saves his scoring outbursts for key second half minutes. The sophomore lottery pick put up 12 points, 3 assists and 4 boards on 5/12 from the field and 2/7 from three. That's not particularly impressive but the fact is that Knox filled the stat sheet with standout plays. From a steal to a dunk, to a momentum three, to an offensive board turned touch pass assist that tied the game with less than 10 seconds to go...Kevin Knox has flashes when the Knicks need it the most.
Note that I mention a steal, a rebound and an assist when talking about Kev's crucial plays. None of that was consistent or reliable last season, he was a scorer as a rookie but that was all we could count on. This season, Knox is showing respectable defense and offensive awareness that was no where to be found in his first campaign as a Knick. The kid is very much still a work in progress, but he's grown by leaps and bound in areas that were his biggest weakness last year. He continues to be a prospect to watch for me, one with upside that people might sleep on after his rookie struggles and reduced role so far this year.
Portis: Bobby Portis is always teetering on the edge of doing too much. When he's got it going, the Knicks back-up Center looks like a guy you can rely on for scoring and boards with commendable effort on defense but obvious limitations. When he doesn't have it going, Bobby's extra shots exacerbate his defensive struggles to make it all look like a mess. We get both versions of Bobby in the same game sometimes, as was the case in Boston. Portis posted 13 points, 7 boards and 1 assist on 6/16 shooting with 1/2 three pointers dropping.
When Portis was knocking down jumpers within space and hitting his floaters over mismatched smaller C's...his game looked like a catalyst. The dude gets hype and his intensity is infectious even through the screen. But he put up 13 points on 16 attempts, there were scoring droughts and some jumpers should have been swing passes. When you add that the C's looked to exploit him on switches, no amount of intensity is making up for the struggle aspects of his game last night. That said, effort will get you far with New York fans as long as you aren't forcing the issue. My love/hate for Lance Thomas thanks to his constant effort is carrying over to Bobby Portis even though they're reciprocal players by skillset.
Fizdale: I can't be too mad at David Fizdale for this one...the Knicks fought all night against a team that should compete for top 4 in the East. As much as I didn't like the switching scheme or how the C's were able to attack it; it held up reasonably well. If the Knicks didn't send Boston to the line 29 times, that defense is looking at a third straight team held below 100 points. I've always preached defense first for this squad and I think a game like last night illustrates why. You're never out of a modern NBA game if you can keep them within 100 points range.
That said, if we're going to evaluate Fizdale fully, we have to look at shortcomings as well. In this case, it continues to be a lack of creativity in the playbook. The Knicks have a lot of offensive players who bring different dynamics to the court and that may be why the plays they run typically seem very generic. You can't run the same curl play that Ellington loves when you've got guys like Iso Zo or Frank Ntilikina playing (one because he doesn't move well off the ball and the other because he can't shoot without his feet set). That said one thing that I think you can reliable play with is using the Knicks many offensive minded bigs as both obstacles and distractions. The Knicks running a gang of Horns and Spain sets where they utilize multiple screens both on and off the ball to confuse defenders would be a lot of fun to watch...but it's early and there's plenty of time to build out this offense.
The other note on Fizdale has to be how much he's shortened the rotation. With all of the logjams, it'd be easy to push a 10 man rotation let alone even more guys depending on who struggles. But it was leaving Frank out there that saw the kid knock down crunch time jumpers. Knox struggled early and then made things happen everywhere in the fourth. This holds true for a player like Morris too, I'd all but given up on his fit with Randle...lo and behold, Randle willfully steps back on a night when Morris has the hot hand. When coach asks for patience, he's not being unreasonable. We need to be mindful of the red flags but also note how much different everything is right now. The Knicks defense has been a revelation and some players, both veteran and youth, are already showing growth and more comfort out there 6 games in.
Ntilikina: It has been a steady ascent from DNP's to 38 minutes of play for Frank over the brief 6 games of this season. This time, the Knicks enigmatic prospect added a bit more meat to his box score but his impact continues to be hidden behind intangibles such as his help defense. Ntilikina started the game with a chasedown block on Marcus Smart that set the tone for defensive effort for a third game running. Frank added 3 steals to that block on the defensive side of the box score. Offensively, he posted 10 points and 2 assists on 4/9 from the field and 2/4 from three while adding in 3 boards as well. That 50% from three feels like an important step, but perhaps more important is that Frank knocked down two jumpers with no hesitation in fourth quarter crunch time minutes.
The 2 assist total (to 1 turnover) is probably a bit that Frank's critics can harp on to demean his performance. But I have a feeling the Boston score keeper was playing a little tight with the assist tracking. Frank made some very nice passes in transition situations that got Knick players the ball in mismatches for one or two dribble attacks to score. The French youngster's increased minutes have conspicuously come at a time when the Knicks ball movement as a team has improved. His defense is undeniable and his offensive output has begun to show signs of life. Love him or hate him, the Knicks have looked like a better team when Frank has been out there in the early going...and that dates back to preseason.
Barrett: RJ Barrett may have pressed the issue a bit for the first time in NBA career and I wasn't really mad at it. The Knicks rookie got the ball in his hands a lot more during crunch time and he went into attack mode. I wasn't mad at the attempts he got up, but the rookie missed the shots and failed to get whistles...he didn't turn into a turnover machine like Randle has in those situations though. RJ's low efficiency as a scorer was really the only blemish on an otherwise good all around effort though. The Duke product put up 15 points, 5 assists and 7 boards on 5/17 from the field, 1/4 from three and 4/6 from the line.
We still got heads up passing when the C's tried to trap the kid. He continues to be a bull that can get into the paint virtually at will. The only issue now is that his jumper is coming back down to Earth and the refs aren't giving him the same benefit of the whistle yet that veterans have earned. Add to that, RJ's free throws are nerve wracking events so far and we can see pretty clearly where the kid has to put in the most work to graduate into a number one option. But even with the growing pains, the Knicks are most fun to watch when Fizdale and the big vets put their trust in the Knicks' two youngest guards to handle the rock and set up the offense. Frank gets the ball moving and RJ gets the team attacking North to South while both of these youngsters are playing defense at a level well beyond their years.
Morris: Leave it to Marcus Morris to explode from three and as a scorer right after I mention moving him to the bench. On a night when RJ and Randle both struggled, it was Marcus Morris who took on the burden of scoring. Mook put up 29 points, 9 rebounds and 3 assists while shooting 8/17 and knocking down 5/8 three pointers...easily his best performance of the season. The difference maker was forcing less isolations and letting the game come to him more often. We didn't get much off the dribble, contests jump shooting last night. That was replaced with catch and shoot makes plus more moving the ball...he had 2 assists all season before last night.
This absolutely has to be said as well. Marcus Morris has been playing some very nice defense. The Knicks' switching scheme allowed the C's to hide from Morris a bit and aim for easier match-ups, but the fact that it was clear they wanted no parts of Mook is telling. The Philly native added 2 steals and deserves a ton of props for being a defensive presence while also providing offense. He was great last night, full stop.
Randle: I watch Randle make some nice passes and draw a ton of attention whenever he has the ball and it's hard for me not to root for this guy. You can tell he's fighting some bad habits and also trying to figure out how to deal with being the focus of entire defenses. That said, this work in progress includes plenty of frustration that are going to try the patience of Knicks fans everywhere. Randle put up 8 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists to 6 TO's. The turnover rate continues to be a nightmare but there are signs of maturation even in this early going.
Randle went 3/7 and 0/3 from long range. That makes 1 miss inside the three point line aka, our big man didn't force shots up when the defense collapsed on him. Even the turnovers in this one included some attempts at making the pass rather than just poor ball handling with no where to go. In the fourth quarter, Randle was utilized more in two man situations which was something I specifically asked for. The C's simply chose to force RJ to try and beat them instead of Randle. I'll take these sorts of growing pains, I think Randle is turning a corner even though the TO's haven't come down yet. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic.
One last note...for as tough as Kemba was on Randle in multiple switch situations, I commend his defensive effort. The defensive scheme didn't do him any favors but he was visibly giving effort in spite of some lapses and mistakes. He can grow there too.
Mitch: Cue the hook for "Got Til It's Gone" because when Mitchell Robinson left the game with a hand injury, my heart damn near stopped...spacing be damned. Mitch has had his minutes limited for much of this season between foul trouble and limited spacing when he plays. But Robinson isn't just one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's the Knicks only one. That crucial impact was felt when Mitch left the game hurt and then returned to provide a few strong minutes late. Mitch only played 16 minutes but posted 6 points, 6 boards and 2 blocks in that limited time. The rotation isn't ideal for the Knicks' rim running big, but he needs more time and probably more pick and roll opportunities.
Ellington: Wayne Ellington needs to hit a hot streak soon, because Knicks fans have a lot of love for the two guys who aren't getting minutes behind the would-be sharp shooter. Ellington had another poor shooting night, going 3/10 on all three point attempts. Ellington scattered 9 points, 3 assists and 5 boards over a 24 minute stint where his shooting was the only real downside to his game. The Knicks' best floor spacer continues to be a revelation in off ball movement that I truly wish Allonzo Trier will take note of and emulate (imagine Iso Zo being just elusive off the ball as he is with it in his hands). Defensively Ellington isn't perfect but his effort is undeniable and makes for positive minutes on that end.
But none of the intangibles that we're seeing will be able to overcome sustained poor shooting. You can't take 10 three pointers and only have 9 points to show for it when you are the Knicks most important shooter. Especially when Damyean Dotson can mimic that off ball movement somewhat and Allonzo Trier can smoke that efficiency on a typical night. Those guys have their own issues to address as players but they're good enough to hang in the back of fans' minds when the Knicks lose by slim margins.
Knox: It feels like Kevin Knox starts games slowly but saves his scoring outbursts for key second half minutes. The sophomore lottery pick put up 12 points, 3 assists and 4 boards on 5/12 from the field and 2/7 from three. That's not particularly impressive but the fact is that Knox filled the stat sheet with standout plays. From a steal to a dunk, to a momentum three, to an offensive board turned touch pass assist that tied the game with less than 10 seconds to go...Kevin Knox has flashes when the Knicks need it the most.
Note that I mention a steal, a rebound and an assist when talking about Kev's crucial plays. None of that was consistent or reliable last season, he was a scorer as a rookie but that was all we could count on. This season, Knox is showing respectable defense and offensive awareness that was no where to be found in his first campaign as a Knick. The kid is very much still a work in progress, but he's grown by leaps and bound in areas that were his biggest weakness last year. He continues to be a prospect to watch for me, one with upside that people might sleep on after his rookie struggles and reduced role so far this year.
Portis: Bobby Portis is always teetering on the edge of doing too much. When he's got it going, the Knicks back-up Center looks like a guy you can rely on for scoring and boards with commendable effort on defense but obvious limitations. When he doesn't have it going, Bobby's extra shots exacerbate his defensive struggles to make it all look like a mess. We get both versions of Bobby in the same game sometimes, as was the case in Boston. Portis posted 13 points, 7 boards and 1 assist on 6/16 shooting with 1/2 three pointers dropping.
When Portis was knocking down jumpers within space and hitting his floaters over mismatched smaller C's...his game looked like a catalyst. The dude gets hype and his intensity is infectious even through the screen. But he put up 13 points on 16 attempts, there were scoring droughts and some jumpers should have been swing passes. When you add that the C's looked to exploit him on switches, no amount of intensity is making up for the struggle aspects of his game last night. That said, effort will get you far with New York fans as long as you aren't forcing the issue. My love/hate for Lance Thomas thanks to his constant effort is carrying over to Bobby Portis even though they're reciprocal players by skillset.
Fizdale: I can't be too mad at David Fizdale for this one...the Knicks fought all night against a team that should compete for top 4 in the East. As much as I didn't like the switching scheme or how the C's were able to attack it; it held up reasonably well. If the Knicks didn't send Boston to the line 29 times, that defense is looking at a third straight team held below 100 points. I've always preached defense first for this squad and I think a game like last night illustrates why. You're never out of a modern NBA game if you can keep them within 100 points range.
That said, if we're going to evaluate Fizdale fully, we have to look at shortcomings as well. In this case, it continues to be a lack of creativity in the playbook. The Knicks have a lot of offensive players who bring different dynamics to the court and that may be why the plays they run typically seem very generic. You can't run the same curl play that Ellington loves when you've got guys like Iso Zo or Frank Ntilikina playing (one because he doesn't move well off the ball and the other because he can't shoot without his feet set). That said one thing that I think you can reliable play with is using the Knicks many offensive minded bigs as both obstacles and distractions. The Knicks running a gang of Horns and Spain sets where they utilize multiple screens both on and off the ball to confuse defenders would be a lot of fun to watch...but it's early and there's plenty of time to build out this offense.
The other note on Fizdale has to be how much he's shortened the rotation. With all of the logjams, it'd be easy to push a 10 man rotation let alone even more guys depending on who struggles. But it was leaving Frank out there that saw the kid knock down crunch time jumpers. Knox struggled early and then made things happen everywhere in the fourth. This holds true for a player like Morris too, I'd all but given up on his fit with Randle...lo and behold, Randle willfully steps back on a night when Morris has the hot hand. When coach asks for patience, he's not being unreasonable. We need to be mindful of the red flags but also note how much different everything is right now. The Knicks defense has been a revelation and some players, both veteran and youth, are already showing growth and more comfort out there 6 games in.
seemorecizzy
Superstar
scapegoat
we are just trash
pre season dont matter
we lost last night cause of freethrows
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Randle doesn’t suck, but Morris might be a better fit than Randle with the youth out there.
It’s early and yeah we are gonna lose a lot of games, but we really need a back up center
seemorecizzy
Superstar
we always trying to find a player/ or coach to blame for our failures. we just suck as a overall organization.
our front office saw him play similar to this last season.and brought him in anyway.
hes not a bad player, hes beginning to make da right pass. he needs to stop forcing shyt.
i was da first person in here to say randle was trash lol but i dont get caught up in agendas.
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
I feel like Knox is gonna be on the rise to having an explosive season but the only thing hindering him is the logjam of vets taking his minutes.
RJ
Ellington
Knox
Morris
Mitch works fine especially with Frank subbing in and putting RJ at the 2.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
I think the team is better off bringing him off the bench and he should stay away from crunch time
Last edited:
seemorecizzy
Superstar
i have no issue with thisI think the team is better off bringing him off the bench and he should stay away from crunch time
although, in da only game we won, he made some critical passes in clutch time that helped us win da game
so hes capable of passin and more importantly, passin out of doubleteams, just needs to be more consistent
in reality, he isnt comin off da bench so
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
He legit has been really bad this season breh he isn’t the guy the front office wanted him to be. The faster they cut the plug on the experiment the better we will be.i have no issue with this
although, in da only game we won, he made some critical passes in clutch time that helped us win da game
so hes capable of passin and more importantly, passin out of doubleteams, just needs to be more consistent
in reality, he isnt comin off da bench so
Julius has shown potential as a point forward his whole career don’t fall for that mirage.
Last edited:
Agreed.
I don't see how brehs are saying we are trash from what has been exhibited.
Free throws were the difference between win and loss for every game but one.
storyteller
Veteran
Pros and Cons of the new defensive scheme. Pros is the players aren’t getting caught out of position and did better defending the three ball. Con is that the C’s were able to scheme around frank guarding Kemba for damn near the entire game. That’s kinda expected from a new scheme without much practice going into it, but we’ll see if Fiz implements it consistently or starts to mix and match schemes.
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
I liked the way Frank played last night despite being outscored. He hit some critical shots and defended well. It definitely wasn't last season bad. He played more confident and I believe if Fiz gave him and Knox more starting minutes, you'll see an increase in improvement but Morris is the only vet that should be playing with them.
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
- Status
