Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[seemorecizzy]

I never said you did. I made it clear that being on pace to lose 17 games or less (which was the pace under Fizdale) was unacceptable. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge this to be the case instead of caping.







So tell me...was Fizdale a bad coach (for this team if you want to use that as a qualifier) and is Miller a better coach?

on "pace" doesn't mean anything to me
like i said, mayb you can judge an 82 game season after 22 games, but i can't.
the nets were 8-18 last season after 26 games and ended up 42-40
i judge full seasons. teams peak at different times, and rotations take time to get settled in.

fizz isn't a bad coach and neither is miller.

 

[Peter Popoff]

They're both bad coaches. Miller is just better. I still think Fizdale would've encouraged playing the rookies if Mills was fired. He just would've never built plays for them.

 

[seemorecizzy]

They're both bad coaches. Miller is just better. I still think Fizdale would've encouraged playing the rookies if Mills was fired. He just would've never built plays for them.

both of them benched youth players in favor of vets who really shouldn't of been signed in the first place.
Mills was clearly putting pressure on fizz to win games at any cost.
and in millers case, he's coaching for his career. so he's gonna do whats best for himself.

Just dont think either of them were put in positions to succeed.

 

[Peter Popoff]

both of them benched youth players in favor of vets who really shouldn't of been signed in the first place.
Mills was clearly putting pressure on fizz to win games at any cost.
and in millers case, he's coaching for his career. so he's gonna do whats best for himself.

Just dont think either of them were put in positions to succeed.

Frank played more than 15 minutes when he wasn't injured last season.

 

[MR. Conclusion]

Winning culture doesn't mean shyt if the players that enjoy it don't stay here or if the young players don't experience it for themselves. Its not an either or situation. Try to get better and try to have the youth experience it as much as possible. Do that even if it doesn't lead to wins

Disagree with the last line. We just saw the outcome of that last year. Brooklyn became the top choice for KD and Kyrie partly because we offered nothing but cap space. There was no proof that anybody on that roster or in the organization even knew how to spell the word winner.

And I never said it's an either/or situation. I said if you stink like Knox does, than have a fukkin seat while Bullock does his thing.

If Knox and Mitch can show consistency, then yeah let em play. But they haven't.

 

[MR. Conclusion]

Winning culture doesn't mean shyt if the players that enjoy it don't stay here or if the young players don't experience it for themselves. Its not an either or situation. Try to get better and try to have the youth experience it as much as possible. Do that even if it doesn't lead to wins

Now that I think about it, I disagree with your first sentence too. Winning culture matters regardless if the players stay or not.

It encourages free agents to be more open-minded about choosing your organization over others.

 

[JMurder]

on "pace" doesn't mean anything to me
like i said, mayb you can judge an 82 game season after 22 games, but i can't.
the nets were 8-18 last season after 26 games and ended up 42-40
i judge full seasons. teams peak at different times, and rotations take time to get settled in.

fizz isn't a bad coach and neither is miller.

Bro, we're watching the games. You comparing records that don't compare and using that as an excuse to say "hey, you don't know what's gonna happen." What does the Nets overachieving expectations a season ago have to do with Fizdale not being able to get his team to play basketball like an NBA team? What does it have to do with Fizdale underachieving in the games he DID coach. In 22 games dude could only beat bad teams twice.

Look if you can't figure out whether a coach is doing good things in a quarter of a season then maybe you should stick to bashing the front office and leaving the coaching conversations alone.

 

[JMurder]

Now that I think about it, I disagree with your first sentence too. Winning culture matters regardless if the players stay or not.

It encourages free agents to be more open-minded about choosing your organization over others.

What I'm saying is, Knicks winning now with vets doesn't matter if those vets all leave and the young guys didn't pick up on it. You don't get a winning culture in one season, you have to foster it over years.

 

[JMurder]

Disagree with the last line. We just saw the outcome of that last year. Brooklyn became the top choice for KD and Kyrie partly because we offered nothing but cap space. There was no proof that anybody on that roster or in the organization even knew how to spell the word winner.

And I never said it's an either/or situation. I said if you stink like Knox does, than have a fukkin seat while Bullock does his thing.

If Knox and Mitch can show consistency, then yeah let em play. But they haven't.

As you pointed out in the other post, the Knicks had a winning season too...the next season didn't lead to KD and Kyrie for us. The vets who helped us win all left and we started losing immediately. There's nothing wrong with trying to build a culture with the youth if it costs us a few wins.

I don't think we're disagreeing entirely, just looking at it with 2 different perspectives.

Edit: And I think you're shooting yourself in the foot using the Nets as an argument because they won with youth and that's the sign of an organization that knows what it's doing.

 

[DPresidential]

Young players playing?

We had Mitch Robinson in there in the fourth quarter getting the experience that HE needed. You know what Robinson DIDN'T need? He didn't need a bunch of "Washington General" ass nikkas and plays that completely made a joke of his late game contribution.

You want a kid to have a passion for drawing? You don't crumple up his drawing after he finishes and tell him to learn from it.

You want Mitch to have a passion for improvement? You don't waste his talent by just throwing him into a late game lineup that would shyt the bed and collapse on defense and get him into foul trouble.

Both Knox and DSJ got late game minutes. They both, in their own way, contributed to giving the solid guys some breathing room and rest and got late game experience that helps them more than just playing them in a joke of a game. They NEEDED to feel like they are a part of a team that is constructed to WIN, not just constructed for kindergarten.

But where was Frank, Wooten, Barret, etc?

RJ Barret is still 1 game removed from an ankle sprain, he played and wasn't overused.

Frank? He was wasn't getting nor deserved to get Elfrid's play time late in the game. The only person he'd have stolen play time from would have been Knox or DSJ.

Wooten and then others... Y'all may have a valid criticism there.

We shouldn't just be handing Mike Miller the keys since Fiz didn't get a fair shake with this roster.

Well, if we are saying Fiz would be showing the same type of results with this roster at this point... Aren't we then saying that Miller is exhibiting what a solid coach is supposed to be exhibiting?

I mean, he's our coach. He's new in the NBA, right? What would you want to see from him to show you he has what it takes to be our guy. I hope y'all ain't expecting Popovich or Prime Phil Jackson to come through the tunnel, right?

We aren't getting a MASTER COACH. I can almost guarantee that the next coach we sign, if we toss Miller, will be another guy/gal who will not be a sure thing.

I don't see what we lose rooting for Miller to show us the characteristics of a good solid coach. And if we are to give him that chance, we must see where HIS rotations and decision making take us.

If he actually makes us look like a middle of the pack team...WITH THIS ROSTER... with the v
Young Vets that have been the object of y'all anger... Then, what would that tell you about him?

If the Knicks find themselves fighting for a playoff spot going into the twilight of this season...then that'll be the best culture change we've seen since 2013. That's fukking wild.

--------------------------

nikkas need to really look back at the time they've spent being Knicks fans in the last half decade...

If we pull receipts, I'm sure that many of the naysayers and pessimists have been just that, NEGATIVE, for a majority of these last 5 years.

Just try and take a break from it once and enjoy what you're seeing. If the Knicks come back down to earth? Okay, you were right and it was fun while it lasted.

But, if they end up NOT looking like a laughing stock... Well, at least you didn't waste your fukking time just being a Debbie downer.

Believe me...it's actually fun to root for the team in its current state. It's actually fun to root for Miller to do well. It's actually fun to be excited about our best player, Randle, who is on a 3 year contract, actually doing a solid job and showing effort on both sides of the court.

And lastly, it's actually fun to see our roster - vets and youth - contribute to giving the youth chances to be a factor in winning basketball.

TL;DR: ENJOY THIS fukkING WIN STREAK ENJOY THE POSITIVE VIBE. AND JUST TAKE A BREAK FROM THE NEGATIVITY FOR A COUPLE GAMES.

 

[JMurder]

Young players playing?

We had Mitch Robinson in there in the fourth quarter getting the experience that HE needed. You know what Robinson DIDN'T need? He didn't need a bunch of "Washington General" ass nikkas and plays that completely made a joke of his late game contribution.

You want a kid to have a passion for drawing? You don't crumple up his drawing after he finishes and tell him to learn from it.

You want Mitch to have a passion for improvement? You don't waste his talent by just throwing him into a late game lineup that would shyt the bed and collapse on defense and get him into foul trouble.

Both Knox and DSJ got late game minutes. They both, in their own way, contributed to giving the solid guys some breathing room and rest and got late game experience that helps them more than just playing them in a joke of a game. They NEEDED to feel like they are a part of a team that is constructed to WIN, not just constructed for kindergarten.

But where was Frank, Wooten, Barret, etc?

RJ Barret is still 1 game removed from an ankle sprain, he played and wasn't overused.

Frank? He was wasn't getting nor deserved to get Elfrid's play time late in the game. The only person he'd have stolen play time from would have been Knox or DSJ.

Wooten and then others... Y'all may have a valid criticism there.

We shouldn't just be handing Mike Miller the keys since Fiz didn't get a fair shake with this roster.

Well, if we are saying Fix would be showing the same type of results with this roster at this point... Aren't we then saying that Miller is exhibiting what a solid coach is supposed to be exhibiting?

I mean, he's our coach. He's new in the NBA, right? What would you want to see from him to show you he has what it takes to be our guy. I hope y'all ain't expecting Popovich or Prime Popovich to come through the tunnel, right?

We aren't getting a MASTER COACH. I can almost guarantee that the next coach we sign, if we toss Miller, will be another guy/gal who will not be a sure thing.

I don't see what we lose rooting for Miller to show us the characteristics of a good solid coach. And if we are to give him that chance, we must see where HIS rotations and decision making take us.

If he actually makes us look like a middle of the pack team...WITH THIS ROSTER... with the v
Young Vets that have been the object of y'all anger... Then, what would that tell you about him?

If the Knicks find themselves fighting for a playoff spot going into the twilight of this season...then that'll be the best culture change we've seen since 2013. That's fukking wild.

--------------------------

nikkas need to really look back at the time they've spent being Knocks fans in the last half decade...

If we pull receipts, I'm sure that many of the naysayers and pessimists have been just that, NEGATIVE, for a majority of these last 5 years.

Just try and take a break from it once and enjoy what you're seeing. If the Knicks come back down to earth? Okay, you were right and it was fun while it lasted.

But, if they end up NOT looking like a laughing stock... Well, at least you didn't want your fukking time just being a Debbie downer.

Believe me...it's actually fun to root for the team in its current state. It's actj fun to root for Miller to do well. It's actually fun to be excited about our best player, Randle, who is on a 3 year contract, actually doing a solid job and showing effort on both sides of the court.

And lastly, it's actually fun to see our roster - vets and youth - contribute to giving the youth chances to be a factor in winning basketball.

TL;DR: ENJOY THIS fukkING WIN STREAK ENJOY THE POSITIVE VIBE. AND JUST TAKE A BREAK FROM THE NEGATIVITY FOR A COUPLE GAMES.

I agree with all of this

 

[seemorecizzy]

Bro, we're watching the games. You comparing records that don't compare and using that as an excuse to say "hey, you don't know what's gonna happen." What does the Nets overachieving expectations a season ago have to do with Fizdale not being able to get his team to play basketball like an NBA team? What does it have to do with Fizdale underachieving in the games he DID coach. In 22 games dude could only beat bad teams twice.

Look if you can't figure out whether a coach is doing good things in a quarter of a season then maybe you should stick to bashing the front office and leaving the coaching conversations alone.

i brought up the nets as proof that you can't judge a team after 20 plus games..i thought that was obvious.

you can't evaluate a team or a coach after 22 games
especially a team that had a brand new starting line up from the year before, and had to incorporate 8 new players.
i don't think you understand how difficult it is to balance the young players with the vets
so mayb you should lay off the coaching convos because you trying to make something complicated sound simple..

if you really think you can judge a coach and team in 22 games then we will agree to disagree breh

 

[RickyGQ]

I rather create a winning culture by any means necessary. Don't give a fukk if the young players get a single minute.

Until Knox finds a way to consistently impact the game, give his minutes to Bullock.

Mitch can't even stay on the court for more than 2 minutes without fouling out, so there's nothing to discuss about his playing time. He did it to himself.

fukk all this hand holding shyt. Our best team in the last decade was all vets. Go with whoever is balling.

You gotta build the culture with the guys that are gonna be here tho. fukk is the point if you let 4 of the 5 guys getting crunch time minutes go.

 

[DPresidential]

fukking beautiful pass by Frank.

----------
Edit: "Randle like a man possessed." - Clyde

---------

DSJ to Mitch fukking beast ass dunk

Youth squad in.

Edit: Great finish Dennis.

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Mitch with only 1 foul and we are already in the second quarter.
Please let this be real


Edit:

I'm not mad at Knox on that. He lost it but didn't give up the fast break..that's what you want to see.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Send Knox to the g league man he looks so bad!