Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[storyteller]

The money makes no difference because we not getting any big star to come here unless we show that we changed the culture .

I'm not concerned with getting any big stars so much as I think there are avenues to change the culture without 1) spending 40% of the cap on one guy; 2) have to give up assets; 3) rely heavily on a 36 year old player to lead on his own.

Again, I don't hate it but I'd be looking at alternatives that give us a shot at players who actually can be here long term and won't limit our flexibility over a single contract before I embrace it.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

I'm not concerned with getting any big stars so much as I think there are avenues to change the culture without 1) spending 40% of the cap on one guy; 2) have to give up assets; 3) rely heavily on a 36 year old player to lead on his own.

Again, I don't hate it but I'd be looking at alternatives that give us a shot at players who actually can be here long term and won't limit our flexibility over a single contract before I embrace it.

I'd do it if it includes Randle and if no one else wants Randle
OKC would have to also include draft picks though
I wouldn't mind Paul because at least the Knicks would have a PG if they miss out on a PG or he will greatly accelerate the development of whatever PG the Knicks draft
The only problem with this is if it fukks up draft positioning next season
Yeah the dynamics of the draft changed but you still want the Knicks to secure a top 5 pick
RJ needs as much talent around him as possible
The Knicks will be okay if they miss out on a superstar for this year's draft because look at next year's 2021 draft which will be the best draft in years
Jalen Green, Terrence Clarke, Jalen Johnson, Evan Mobley, etc.
Imagine the Knicks running Frank/Green/RJ/Deni/Mitch or Frank/RJ/Clarke/Deni/Mitch, etc. in a couple years after next year's draft
I keep mentioning players like Green because it would be fun to watch a freak athlete scorer in the garden

 

[JMurder]

Why are we so concerned with cap space that we're not using anyway?

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Why are we so concerned with cap space that we're not using anyway?

Maybe concerned with roster construction around the nucleus of the team?

 

[storyteller]

Why are we so concerned with cap space that we're not using anyway?

We always use the cap space, we just never use it wisely. I'm not even convinced we can get CP3 as a salary dump, I'm guessing they'll want picks (they did earlier). Meanwhile, TJ Warren was given away with a 2nd round pick last offseason.

 

[JMurder]

We always use the cap space, we just never use it wisely. I'm not even convinced we can get CP3 as a salary dump, I'm guessing they'll want picks (they did earlier). Meanwhile, TJ Warren was given away with a 2nd round pick last offseason.

I agree...but I don't think this would qualify as not using it wisely unless he has some sort of season ending injury as soon as we get him.

I'm not saying give up the farm for him (including multiple picks would be giving up the farm)...just saying we should see if they'd give him up for a salary dump (nothing more than 2 seconds or a late first in addition).

 

[storyteller]

I agree...but I don't think this would qualify as not using it wisely unless he has some sort of season ending injury as soon as we get him.

I'm not saying give up the farm for him (including multiple picks would be giving up the farm)...just saying we should see if they'd give him up for a salary dump (nothing more than 2 seconds or a late first in addition).

I think CP3 is an okay shot to take and a really solid plan C. But plan A should depend on where we draft. Plan B would be FVV for me. Then maybe, if we're aimless still, giving away assets for CP3's giant contract becomes more intriguing. I do think the rumors are congealing in a more fan friendly approach that could work out though. CP3 and Melo are the rumors...that's better than what we got these past two offseasons. Just not the first direction I'd be looking with a ton of picks and cap space to work with. Bare in mind, I'm still on the "throw a max at Ingram and see what happens" mode. I'm also looking at the lack of free cap space this coming offseason and wondering if there will be bargains avaiable or teams chasing cap space. So the CP3 plan just falls to the back burner for me at least until we have more information about alternatives.

 

[Wargames]

I think CP3 is an okay shot to take and a really solid plan C. But plan A should depend on where we draft. Plan B would be FVV for me. Then maybe, if we're aimless still, giving away assets for CP3's giant contract becomes more intriguing. I do think the rumors are congealing in a more fan friendly approach that could work out though. CP3 and Melo are the rumors...that's better than what we got these past two offseasons. Just not the first direction I'd be looking with a ton of picks and cap space to work with. Bare in mind, I'm still on the "throw a max at Ingram and see what happens" mode. I'm also looking at the lack of free cap space this coming offseason and wondering if there will be bargains avaiable or teams chasing cap space. So the CP3 plan just falls to the back burner for me at least until we have more information about alternatives.

We should gather assets for cap space.

Also if we’re going to trade for CP3 could we trade for the younger Schroeder?

 

[Lurk Angle]

Cp3 would do wonders with this squad cause he's an on court coach and a culture setter

This team would probably have to send a first back but can at least get a couple seconds or a late first back

Want no parts of melo tho

Edit: if no cp3 then Conley would be good too

 

[JMurder]

I think CP3 is an okay shot to take and a really solid plan C. But plan A should depend on where we draft. Plan B would be FVV for me. Then maybe, if we're aimless still, giving away assets for CP3's giant contract becomes more intriguing. I do think the rumors are congealing in a more fan friendly approach that could work out though. CP3 and Melo are the rumors...that's better than what we got these past two offseasons. Just not the first direction I'd be looking with a ton of picks and cap space to work with. Bare in mind, I'm still on the "throw a max at Ingram and see what happens" mode. I'm also looking at the lack of free cap space this coming offseason and wondering if there will be bargains avaiable or teams chasing cap space. So the CP3 plan just falls to the back burner for me at least until we have more information about alternatives.

I don't see how FVV would be above CP3. And I don't think CP3 prevents you from making moves on the side (or preventing you from getting a Plan A). I don't see FVV as a possibility coming here but obviously the Knicks should pursue him. I guess I ultimately agree with you but I just don't see any of the better options coming through right now.

 

[storyteller]

We should gather assets for cap space.

Also if we’re going to trade for CP3 could we trade for the younger Schroeder?

I just don't like Schroeder's game tbh and I don't think he'd offer the same leadership qualities CP3 does, but a younger PG definitely is the direction I'd be looking.

I don't see how FVV would be above CP3. And I don't think CP3 prevents you from making moves on the side (or preventing you from getting a Plan A). I don't see FVV as a possibility coming here but obviously the Knicks should pursue him. I guess I ultimately agree with you but I just don't see any of the better options coming through right now.

If we go with plan A then trading for CP3 doesn't work for me. If I'm drafting a PG top five, he's starting in the role we're preparing him for flat out. The vets thing has soured heavy on me with so many seasons watching players near retirement take the ball out of our highest picked players' hands.

I take FVV at half the cost of CP3 and without having to give up any compensation. It's FVV at 20-25 mil per vs CP3 at 42 mil per and losing an asset or two. So I take FVV in that scenario (also, 26 years old vs 35 years old). For sure it could be debated.

I think both of those are better options because they leave us space to do more. If we get FVV closer to 20 mil, we might still have a shot at Ingram since so few teams have cap space. We also could use the rest of the cap space to help a team dump a contract which nets us more assets than we started with instead of losing one in the CP3 scenario. Paul's also having a healthy season but missed 20+ games each of the three before, which is worth being mindful of considering his age.

Honestly, I feel like these types of deals have burned us my entire adult life. So maybe it's just history making me paranoid, but there are other avenues. I'd be kicking the tires on young guys well before I settle on CP3. I have a feeling we've got time to roll the dice on a trade for him and we can re-evaluate if we end up having to rush.

 

[Wargames]

@storyteller I hear you about TJ Warren. What do you think about Josh Jackson and Marquese Chriss as affordable depth with upside?

 

[storyteller]

@storyteller I hear you about TJ Warren. What do you think about Josh Jackson and Marquese Chriss as affordable depth with upside?

Josh Jackson is definitely interesting, I've barely gotten to look at him this season but heard good vibes out of the G league and his numbers after getting called up are promising. I haven't seen him, but I really liked him as a prospect out of college. He's definitely got late bloomer qualities, came in raw but with tons of upside and then never got it going. Chriss has shown more and I like his skillset in the modern NBA but I've been really put off by his attitude on the court. Granted, it's only in brief viewings and I'd probably try to find some GS fans to ask about him...but talent wise he's interesting.

Another guy who's not the best fit, but someone I think will be available and who I've always liked when he does get little opportunities is Alize Johnson. Workhorse type that you can throw in for his motor and athleticism. Since Indy has so much depth, he's been buried but I'd like to get a longer look. Less upside to this one but he's my kind of player.

And the trade target that I'd really be interested in though he's another raw, young guard for our many...Zhaire Smith. Super athletic, high upside defensive player, looked promising but had a bunch of mishaps health wise as a rookie and then Mathysse Thybulle took his spot on the Sixers.

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

Honestly if it gets rid of Randle I'd take CP3

Randle is guaranteed to be in any CP3 trade just for salary reasons, I suspect they'll also want a pick or a young player back too ( I think Knox and Dsjr are the most likely ones to be included in a trade). Honestly if the deal looks something like the Clippers pick, Randle, and DSjr. I'd sign off on it; we need a culture change bad and CP3 seems like the perfect guy to help shift the culture and to mentor the next pg we draft. I understand wanting to keep cap space to take back bad contracts for assets this offseason, but unlike last season I don't think there are any teams who'd be willing to move heaven and earth to sign any of the free agents available this year, so personally I'm not expecting too many deals to be made. Also the Knicks aren't a free agent destination at all, and the more that bad news comes out of NY the more true that statement becomes I think, so fukk it, take on CP3's contract

 

[Soundwave]

@Soundwave come in here and celebrate with us brehs

Negged