Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[JMurder]

Elite was generous he can't stay on the floor he fouls too much then maybe when he solves that we can call him elite.

Less now

Frank was a lottery pick and was called one of the best international players of his generation. It was people comparing him to Giannis and raving about all this untapped potential and talking about how his wingspan would be game changing. Don't do that. Even if he was selected to run the triangle he has struggled with the most basic aspects of being a point guard in the NBA. We didn't pick this guy to average 5 points and be a spot defender.

I'm gonna need a link for the bolded.

I keep telling you guys that you need to be less concerned with where a guy was drafted and more concerned with whether the guy we drafted is going to be serviceable... especially in a scenario where the Knicks are in the playoffs. I don't think anyone will argue with Frank being drafted too high or the valuation of his contract not matching his production. The argument is whether Frank IS a productive player. If you're saying he's a bust, he's trash, it sounds like you're saying he has no value. You can't say that and then say he's ELITE or even close to elite if he can keep his fouls down on one side of the court. You sound crazy doing this.



Outside of drafting top 5, where you pick a player really doesn't matter. And the following is for those of you who are so mad that the Knicks are picking 8th...

The most impressive & important players thus far in the NBA playoffs who are still playing, in no particular order, have been:

• Luka Doncic
  
  
• LeBron James
  
  
• Kawhi Leonard
  
  
• Damian Lillard
  
  
• Giannis Antetokounmpo
  
  
• Donovan Mitchell
  
  
• Jamal Murray
  
  
• Jayson Tatum
  
  
• James Harden
  
  
• Anthony Davis
  
  
• Kemba Walker
  
  
• Chris Paul
  
  
• Fred VanVleet
  

With the exception of Davis, who was a generational-ish first overall pick with guard skills due to a late growth spurt, every one of the guys on this list can a) shoot and b) direct an offense. More than half were drafted outside of the top five.

I can post anti-tank shyt like this all day

 

[No Homo]

For the Frank fans, after watching him all these years, what is your realistic expectation/ceiling/role for him?

He's going into year 4 and is pretty much the same player from year 1 with no real improvement anywhere.

 

[storyteller]

We gonna have to disagree on that evaluation. To me being better means you actually improved your game not that you went to a much better team and played with better players lol that makes no sense to me. If THJ goes to Cleveland or Chicago next year he reverts to the same shyt he was on the Knicks. THJ does not look better to me I see the same chuck with lower usage surrounded by much better players. THJ had no choice but to take the role he had based on the talent deficit on our team and what he was paid.

My take on it is it doesn't really matter whether you put the pieces around a player to help him excel or the player makes improvements to his own game. The end result is you get more value out of the player. I don't care if THJ picked up some new tricks or is the exact same player; the difference between the Mavs now and the Knicks then is 43% from the field vs 38%. Ironically, his combined FG% last year between Dallas and NY was .393 which is exactly what Frank shot except he shot almost 10 more times than Frank without playing any defense whatsoever. Any way you slice it, I'll be calling that trash.

The Knicks haven't put any players in positions to excel from the draft picks to big contracts like Hardaway and Randle. Hopefully Rose does a better job but it's a wait and see until the draft and Free Agency starts.

 

[Peter Popoff]

I picture this with Trier too. Hopefully another team gives him a shot because his scoring can be valuable, but they'll probably have to get rid of some bad habits.

He needs to be on a team like Milwaukee. Move Middleton to the 3. Trier, Middleton, Giannis would be a nice combo. Trier's speed, Middleton's perimeter shooting and Giannis explosiveness could put a dent in the offense.

 

[Peter Popoff]

I'm leaning more towards Isaac Okoro. I feel like his game is more smoothed out and he will continue to develop. I'm getting Victor Oladipo vibes from him. I'm nervous about Kira Lewis that he may be a fast explosive bust like Dennis Smith Jr. and I don't want that repeat.

 

[JMurder]

For the Frank fans, after watching him all these years, what is your realistic expectation/ceiling/role for him?

He's going into year 4 and is pretty much the same player from year 1 with no real improvement anywhere.

He improved his free throw shooting every year and was noticeably more aggressive in the lane this season. Otherwise your assessment is very valid. If you're a Frank Stan it's probably because you're a believer in advanced stats which bear out really well for him since his rookie year. Frank's trajectory is tied to his ability to hit the 3. If the Knicks finally get serious about developing shooting Frank can be an important glue guy off the bench for a really good team or a starting combo guard on a bad team.

 

[ISO]

He needs to be on a team like Milwaukee. Move Middleton to the 3. Trier, Middleton, Giannis would be a nice combo. Trier's speed, Middleton's perimeter shooting and Giannis explosiveness could put a dent in the offense.

Trier looking good sandwiched between an All-Star and a G.O.A.T. and not Bambi and the Croissant

 

[TOAD99]

Damn I sorta wish we could’ve gotten Nate McMillan as our coach

 

[RickyGQ]

For the Frank fans, after watching him all these years, what is your realistic expectation/ceiling/role for him?

He's going into year 4 and is pretty much the same player from year 1 with no real improvement anywhere.

He’s not the same player he was in year 1 at all. His floor is a 5th starter, secondary ball handler who’s main assignment will be to disrupt the opposing teams best perimeter player. His ceiling is probably a 4th starter who can do all of the above but space the floor in the process. It’s not ideal for a lottery pick but their crap shoots for a reason. Getting a key piece anywhere in the draft outside of the top 5 can still be considered a win.

 

[Peter Popoff]

Trier looking good sandwiched between an All-Star and a G.O.A.T. and not Bambi and the Croissant

 

[ISO]

He improved his free throw shooting every year and was noticeably more aggressive in the lane this season. Otherwise your assessment is very valid. If you're a Frank Stan it's probably because you're a believer in advanced stats which bear out really well for him since his rookie year. Frank's trajectory is tied to his ability to hit the 3. If the Knicks finally get serious about developing shooting Frank can be an important glue guy off the bench for a really good team or a starting combo guard on a bad team.

Which advanced stats are these?

 

[JMurder]

Trier looking good sandwiched between an All-Star and a G.O.A.T. and not Bambi and the Croissant

I'm trying to see a scenario where Trier would end up in the Bucks and get most of his minutes with Giannis who needs the ball in his hands. He's a nut who thinks he's better than he is. I can see him coming off the bench there certainly in a microwave scorer type role... But the way this post is posed makes me think you guys feel like he could start or get starter minutes ..

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Them giving trier props just goes to show you that they’re willing to put the blame on the knicks FO and coaching staff when it comes to trier but not when it comes to frank.

trier was never put in the right position to excel. You saw flashes on offense but he’s a turnstile on defense. Frank has never been put in the right position to excel. You see him showing his lockdown potential on defense but he’s not the most gifted offensive player.

 

[ISO]

I'm trying to see a scenario where Trier would end up in the Bucks and get most of his minutes with Giannis who needs the ball in his hands. He's a nut who thinks he's better than he is. I can see him coming off the bench there certainly in a microwave scorer type role... But the way this post is posed makes me think you guys feel like he could start or get starter minutes ..

I address the scenario he typed.

Even if Trier was to come off the bench which he probably would he would still be playing minutes with Giannis and Middleton and a way better roster in terms of floor spacing in general.

Milwaukee actually needs a guy that can flat out get buckets in the halfcourt like Trier.

 

[Kitsch]

Hate to rehash this but...