Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[seemorecizzy]

I call him an elite role player.

i agree with this
and again, i think he fits better with a contending team thats already built up. he has his role and hes good at it.

as opposed to bringing him to a rebuilding team and making him da highest paid player on a long term contract. that comes with expectations.

 

[seemorecizzy]

How is he a role player. Wayne Ellington is a role player. His role is to shoot threes off screens. That’s his role he is a role player.

VanVleet is not a role player he’s a starting level player. He runs P&R’s, he’s a guy who can score from all three zones, he defends at a high level. How is he a role player.

role players can start
you are confused
role player isnt a bad thing, but thats what he is

 

[TOAD99]

I don’t mind getting van fleet

We gotta start somewhere and we need to give RJ and our other young players some experience

I’d rather we go a Miami Heat route instead of full on tanking

maybe if we do solid, a disgruntled star or major free agent will come

 

[ikbm]

nikkas see guys on other teams get their roles maximized by good coaching and think that happens in new york
if you think vanvleet will have near the same level of efficiency in new york....or his defense will look as good considering we have a fleet of players on the second line behind him that would be undisciplined young players.....
it's easy for vanvleet to be an agressive defender when you got OG, pascal, ibaka, marc gasol behind you.
at the end of the day he's a small guard. his level of impact is limited unless he becomes the second coming of isiah thomas or chris paul.
On the wrong team vanvleet could top out as a DJ augustine type. which isnt bad....but it isnt 25 million dollars good.

 

[Miggs]

i agree with this
and again, i think he fits better with a contending team thats already built up. he has his role and hes good at it.

as opposed to bringing him to a rebuilding team and making him da highest paid player on a long term contract. that comes with expectations.

He cant be the highest player or lead player on a winning team...I dont think he will be the same player when he doesnt have a good roster and and doesnt have Lowry...When hes stuck,doesnt have an angle or a play he can dump it to Kyle,he wont be able to do that in NY or Detroit...When defenses focus on him more i dont think it will look the same...

 

[JMurder]

I honestly dont know why yal have such a raging hard-on to pay vanvleet 25+ million
he's a premium role player...if that makes you happier
He SG next to kyle lowry.
It's unforeseen to say he can run an offense without the tutelage and assistance of an actual all star guard next to him in kyle lowry...and a coach that was a g league coach for the raptors.....and vanvleet came up their g league pipeline
you dont plug and play 5'10 guards everywhere unless the nikka is chris paul

1) Breh, I think what you and Seemorecizzy are trying to say is that FVV is a ROTATION player on a championship team... Which makes him a starter on most other teams

2) He's a SG next to Lowry SOMETIMES. And he's the PG when Lowry isn't on the court. He's a combo guard who can play on and off ball. How you trying to make his best trait a negative?

3) U brehs kill me with this "it's unforeseen" bullshyt. Explain to me how a smart on and off ball threat who can shoot from 3 and defend competently despite being undersized wouldn't translate to ANY team. Better yet, explain to me how offering bro 22 mil a season is a worst deal than the contact Boston offered to Kemba Walker

 

[JMurder]

He cant be the highest player or lead player on a winning team...I dont think he will be the same player when he doesnt have a good roster and and doesnt have Lowry...When hes stuck,doesnt have an angle or a play he can dump it to Kyle,he wont be able to do that in NY or Detroit...When defenses focus on him more i dont think it will look the same...

Literally no one is asking for this

 

[JMurder]

i agree with this
and again, i think he fits better with a contending team thats already built up. he has his role and hes good at it.
.

What's his role?

 

[Miggs]

Literally no one is asking for this

I think theres some opinions in here that are based more on him hitting a few 3s in the finals and not on watching him over an entire season.NIkkas are stating his liabilities as his strengths..

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Caveat: I'm more playing devil's advocate here than actually advocating for the move. I'm on the fence about it because I think it may or may not work out depending on what additional moves are made but...

In a vacuum, I don't think 22 million per is an overpay for FVV's 18,7 and 4 if you believe he can maintain that production outside of the Raptors. He also addresses multiple needs. The Knicks need more playmaking and spacing; this guy is a career 39% three point shooter who took 7 attempts per game last year. He's also only 25 years old, so the Knicks would be bringing in a veteran with championship experience for his full prime if they got him. He's also one of those flexibility adds. He can be the lead or off guard (we know the lead guard thing from when Lowry got hurt last season). I prefer him as the secondary but his lead guard numbers speak for themselves.

This type of move also takes some pressure off of the front office to draft a PG. If BPA at 8 and 27 are different positions, the Knicks can make the BPA pick rather than forcing themselves to fill a need. Top that off with the fact that adding FVV to address the PG need doesn't cost the assets that a CP3 trade or any other trade would require and this could fill a need while keeping all of the picks in place to either use or try to flip in a separate deal (a CP3 + FVV scenario was tweeted out yesterday that technically works).

The downside though...the Boston series wasn't pretty, he may be a system guy and he's undersized although he doesn't really back down on defense. The Knicks need talent, but they run the risk of being stuck with another overpaid player that looked good in a proper situation and then flops with them.

That said, I'd assume the synergy between FO and Coach is partially why this rumor has such voracity. I've been half joking about bringing in Augustin because Thibs loves a short, quick, savvy PG running his show and has had success with that type (Augustin being the best example of overachieving). FVV is a better version of that imo, so I could see Thibs being the driving force because he's built offenses for this style of guard to run before. If we're looking at past examples, he'll want a high IQ big man that can do some handling and passing too. I think the Horford rumors fit that bill.

this is what I am concerned about
history and luck tells us this is exactly what will happen

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Meh, Payton and Portis who don't have a future on this team. The busts and some second rounders.

If we're going to trade for CP3, Randle has to be included.

if scrambles is still here after all this

 

[ikbm]

1) Breh, I think what you and Seemorecizzy are trying to say is that FVV is a ROTATION player on a championship team... Which makes him a starter on most other teams

2) He's a SG next to Lowry SOMETIMES. And he's the PG when Lowry isn't on the court. He's a combo guard who can play on and off ball. How you trying to make his best trait a negative?

3) U brehs kill me with this "it's unforeseen" bullshyt. Explain to me how a smart on and off ball threat who can shoot from 3 and defend competently despite being undersized wouldn't translate to ANY team. Better yet, explain to me how offering bro 22 mil a season is a worst deal than the contact Boston offered to Kemba Walker

Im not paying 25 million for a nikka thats JUST A STARTER
foh
you think vanvleet is the difference between going to the playoffs or something
Cause I dont see it at all. Especially not at that price point
also him running an offense against teams second units is not the same thing kyle does year in and year out
if he comes at a reasonable price I'd love to have him. But to overpay??? You nikkas are crazy

 

[Miggs]

How is he a role player. Wayne Ellington is a role player. His role is to shoot threes off screens. That’s his role he is a role player.

VanVleet is not a role player he’s a starting level player. He runs P&R’s, he’s a guy who can score from all three zones, he defends at a high level. How is he a role player.

He scores mostly from the 3 point line,if he scored from all 3 zones he'd be an all star.....his lack of finish at the rim is actually one of his greatest liabilities as is his lack of an intermediate game (floater,pull up jumper)

 

[ISO]

role players can start
you are confused
role player isnt a bad thing, but thats what he is

VanVleet is a high level starting player that even closes games. That’s not a role player.

Nikkas that average 18/4/7 with 2 steals and shoot 40% from 3 are not called role players.

U are calling him that because he wasn’t some lottery pick with college hype.

 

[ISO]

He scores mostly from the 3 point line,if he scored from all 3 zones he'd be an all star.....his lack of finish at the rim is actually one of his greatest liabilities as is his lack of an intermediate game (floater,pull up jumper)

He’s 55% at the rim on good volume (nearly 300 attempts) that’s alright efficiency but a good amount of attempts. He can break down the defense and get to the basket. Do you realize how sad our PG situation is? We don’t have anyone who can penetrate. We’re not asking for Kyrie Irving at the rim.