One Drop Rule: How Should We Define Being Black In America

Shoog Shatmi

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I first saw the term "MGM" used online around 10-15 years ago by "multiracial activist" types whose goal was to carve out a separate identify space for mixed people, including "MGMs", away from black people. @IllmaticDelta has cited Frank Sweet's book, so I think he may be familiar with that scene. From what I remember, most of these people were either biracials or Caribbean mulattoes (Frank Sweet was Puerto Rican and there was another woman, can't remember her name, who was prominent in that scene who was Jamaican).
 
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DoomzdayzV

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If you don’t make whites uncomfortable u aren’t black...period. That’s what black means. There was no such thing as “black people” in Africa when civilization dawned, it was just humans
 

IllmaticDelta

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but there is actually way more legit mix race people in Brazil though. they surpass the black population. the black population is only 7% while the mix population is at 35-45%. they look visibly mix too. Brazil literally had a whitening century.
alot of the mix people in Brazil have a huge chunk of indigenous in them. Like Ronaldino or Casermiro. You'll see alot of these types on the favelas.

Brazil only counts the "Pretos" (darker skinned) as black; the other types of African descent are describing themselves in the terms that are non-Preto, which would still be "Black" in the USA. Now, because of the spread of the ADOS "black" concept, it's starting to change


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ADOS aesthetic concepts that plays a part in Brazil's "black" movement

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^^not only just "pretos" in that video

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IllmaticDelta

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I first saw the term "MGM" used online around 10-15 years ago by "multiracial activist" types whose goal was to carve out a separate identify space for mixed people, including "MGMs", away from black people. @IllmaticDelta has cited Frank Sweet's book, so I think he may be familiar with that scene. From what I remember, most of these people were either biracials or Caribbean mulattoes (Frank Sweet was Puerto Rican and there was another woman, can't remember her name, who was prominent in that scene who was Jamaican).

I think the Sweet dude claimed to be Melungeon or Redbone
 

Shoog Shatmi

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I think the Sweet dude claimed to be Melungeon or Redbone
Nah, he is Puerto Rican. He used to host a forum that had some interesting discussions, but was filled with a lot of mixed people who were hostile to black people and felt like we were holding them "hostage", identify-wise, using the "one drop rule".
 

IllmaticDelta

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Nah, he is Puerto Rican. He used to host a forum that had some interesting discussions, but was filled with a lot of mixed people who were hostile to black people and felt like we were holding them "hostage", identify-wise, using the "one drop rule".

Aight, I found it: he got the Sweet surname (historic FPC surname from the American South) from his stepfather.

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IllmaticDelta

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which is why i said what i said about how these opportunist are trying to push out certain types of people of being "black" and "black american"

rn these people are trying to place light and biracial blacks as just "biracial"

and now you got them placing black americans like beyonce and others with similar ancestrial makeup as "MGM"

Soon these people will start calling any black american as MGM as a way to try to denounce them as black. Cause of our admixture.

They do this already with any black american that they find out has NonAfrican DNA in them.

these people are just going around to each tier and type of black american, labeling and putting black americans in places(MGM) when THEY have no right to. they are not even black american.

and their doing this for a reason.

thats why alot of these people like to center parameters of blackness like being based on African "Purity", and being dark. Cause basing blackness on stuff like this benefits them.

And that's what it's about to seize benefits


yea, they're purposely being selective while disregarding that phenotype and genetics don't actually correlate 100%

They don't claim him to be mixed even though his DNA is


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Houston911

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The problem is you still have to define black. You have lightskin Black people with 2 lightskin Black parents saying they are 100% Black. So if you have a quarter-Black who looks Black, you still denying them?

so 3 out of their 4 grandparents are white?
 

Cadillac

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I remember people were trying to "expand the black experience"

by incoporating NonADOS upbringing elements of having family members in other continents, being immigrants, etc. to it.

the black experience is associated rightfully to ADOS upbringing. Yes the "black experience" is not totally a monolith but it will always have to do with Black americans and ONLY Black americans

yalls experience is the "nigerian experience" or the "Jamaican experience" or wherever you are from. not the "black experience"
 
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™BlackPearl The Empress™

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Black Americans, African Americans whatever you wanna call it are our own separate tribe. The term "Black" is too board and frankly applies to too many people across the world.

We should first stop trying to lump ourselves with the rest of the world. Then we can go on to determine how you are classified into our tribe/ethnic group.
 

UberEatsDriver

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Brooklyn keeps on taking it.
Every group separates. Chinese don't consider Hong Kong Chinese as real Chinese. And sure the colonization there has some similarities with us here in the west to Africans. Our minds and means of thinking are completely different concerning vital topics.

What it comes down to ultimately is, not all skinfolk are kinfolk.

keep believing this nonsense if you want. That separation only exist when they are in their circles and it boils down to it.


Outside their circle they will bond. The Irish being accepted as white people when enough colored folks migrated to the north and immigrants migrating to America is the best example of it.

Yea them Chinese and Koreans might not see eye to eye but they also live in the exact same neighborhoods as eachother and have one goal in mind as ASIAN PEOPLE!
 

IllmaticDelta

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Black Americans, African Americans whatever you wanna call it are our own separate tribe. The term "Black" is too board and frankly applies to too many people across the world.

We should first stop trying to lump ourselves with the rest of the world. Then we can go on to determine how you are classified into our tribe/ethnic group.


ADOS has been using the terms "black" and "african-afro/american" for more than 200 years


Use of ‘African-American’ Dates to Nation’s Early Days

The term African-American may seem to be a product of recent decades, exploding into common usage in the 1990s after a push from advocates like Jesse Jackson, and only enshrined in the Oxford English Dictionary in 2001.

The O.E.D.’s entry, revised in 2012, traces the first known occurrence to 1835, in an abolitionist newspaper. But now, a researcher has discovered a printed reference in an anti-British sermon from 1782 credited to an anonymous “African American,” pushing the origins of the term back to the earliest days of independence.

“We think of it as a neutral alternative to older terms, one that resembles Italian-American or Irish-American,” said Fred Shapiro, an associate director at the Yale Law School Library, who found the reference. “It’s a very striking usage to see back in 1782.”

Mr. Shapiro, a longtime contributor to the O.E.D. and the editor of the Yale Book of Quotations, found the reference last month in one of his regular sweeps of various online databases that have transformed lexicographic research by gathering vast swaths of historical texts — once scattered across the collections of far-flung libraries and historical societies — in one easily searchable place.

One day, Mr. Shapiro typed “African American” into a database of historical newspapers. Up popped an advertisement that appeared in The Pennsylvania Journal on May 15, 1782, announcing: “Two Sermons, written by the African American; one on the Capture of Lord Cornwallis, to be SOLD.”

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With the help of George Thompson, a retired librarian from New York University, Mr. Shapiro found one of the titles — “A Sermon on the Capture of Lord Cornwallis” — and located a copy of it, a 16-page pamphlet, at Houghton Library at Harvard University.

The sermon, which crows about the surrender of the British Army at Yorktown the previous year, was acquired by Harvard in 1845 and seems to have been all but uncited in scholarly literature. Its author — listed on the title page as “an African American” — is anonymous, identified only as “not having the benefit of a liberal education.”

“Was it a freeman?” Mr. Shapiro said. “A slave? We don’t know.”

Black people in the Colonial period, whatever their legal status, were most commonly referred to as “Negro” or “African.”

But in the years after the Revolution, various terms emphasizing their claim to being “American” — a label which was applied to people of European descent living in the colonies by the end of the 17th century — came into circulation.

“Afro-American” has been documented as early as 1831, with “black American” (1818) and “Africo-American” (1788) going back even further.

“We want dancing and raree-shows and ramadans to forget miseries and wretchedness as much as the Africo-americans want the Banjar” — banjo — “to digest with their Kuskus the hardships of their lives,” a correspondent wrote to Thomas Jefferson in 1788. (“Kuskus” is a variant of “couscous.”)

Katherine C. Martin, the editor of United States dictionaries at Oxford University Press, said the O.E.D.’s researchers were in the process of confirming Mr. Shapiro’s discovery.

“It’s very exciting,” she said. “Once we have it nailed down, I would expect we’ll update our entry.”

The sermon, one of the earliest surviving ones by a black American, may also attract interest from historians.

In it, the speaker boasts about the capture of Cornwallis and decries the British assault on “the freedom of the free born sons of America” while nodding toward the fact of “my own complexion.”

“My beloved countrymen, if I may be permitted thus to call you, who am a descendant of the sable race,” one passage begins.

The speaker also addresses fellow “descendants of Africa” who feel loyalty to Britain, asking: “Tell me in plain and simple language, have ye not been disappointed? Have ye reaped what you labored for?”

The other sermon mentioned in the ad, Mr. Shapiro said, may be “A Sermon on the Present Situation of Affairs of America and Great-Britain,” which had been previously known to scholars. Both refer to “descendants of Africa,” he said, and have dedications invoking South Carolina, whose governor had been held in solitary confinement by the British for nearly a year.

But curiously, the title page of the other sermon attributes it to “a Black.”

In other words, the bifurcation between the terms African-American and black, the two leading terms today, was present from the very beginning
,” Mr. Shapiro said.

Use of ‘African-American’ Dates to Nation’s Early Days
 
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