Pakistan mob kills women and kids over Facebook post

[FAH1223]

yea but theyre not muslims

they still shouldn't be slaughtered breh

the Sub continent is fooked up

 

[Type Username Here]

I honestly think it's a strong one

There are dozens of legitimate criticisms of Islam and Muslims and I stay out of those threads. I only ride out in the threads that I feel are missing the point of the issue at hand. Different cultural groups have different histories and it's impossible to ignore that if you want to have a serious discussion.

Al Shabaab has terrorized Somalia for the last 5 years and even though they're dying down, they still enjoy some influence in some places. They are a radical Islamist group. Now would I be honest or remiss if I focused on how Islam is the problem with Shabaab and Somalia? I'm not an expert on Pakistan but I can tell you that even from this distant view that there are other more important factors. Even the Taliban were really a Pashtun nationalist movement.

I think when a religion has text that states putting people who commit blasphemy to death is okay, it becomes a clear legitimate criticism. It is correct that not all Muslims may concur or follow that portion of text, but what about those who do? Certainly I don't think 50CentStan would want those people put to death, but he clearly stated they are not Muslims. This is dangerous in certain places, where that line of thinking breeds actions.

I challenged your assertions that because of Pakistan's history, condition and politics, that it gives a pass to the religious or idealism behind these actions. It would be equivalent of me saying that because Israelis elected a woman to office before Palestine, or that they have been persecuted multiple times, or went through almost a full genocide, or were part of two wars against multiple Arab countries, and so on....that it is a fine excuse to give a pass to zionism and right-wing Israeli actions, including killing children or harvesting organs of Arabs. It's not.

Historical and political context is important, but it shouldn't excuse the valid criticism of ideologies associated with certain actions.

 

[50CentStan]

they still shouldn't be slaughtered breh

the Sub continent is fooked up

I agree breh, the dude said theyre the only peaceful muslims, I was just pointing out that theyre not muslims though.

 

[Broke Wave]

I think when a religion has text that states putting people who commit blasphemy to death is okay, it becomes a clear legitimate criticism. It is correct that not all Muslims may concur or follow that portion of text, but what about those who do? Certainly I don't think 50CentStan would want those people put to death, but he clearly stated they are not Muslims. This is dangerous in certain places, where that line of thinking breeds actions.

I challenged your assertions that because of Pakistan's history, condition and politics, that it gives a pass to the religious or idealism behind these actions. It would be equivalent of me saying that because Israelis elected a woman to office before Palestine, or that they have been persecuted multiple times, or went through almost a full genocide, or were part of two wars against multiple Arab countries, and so on....that it is a fine excuse to give a pass to zionism and right-wing Israeli actions, including killing children or harvesting organs of Arabs. It's not.

Historical and political context is important, but it shouldn't excuse the valid criticism of ideologies associated with certain actions.

I'm not excusing this savagery but I'm asking people to at least look at religion in conjunction with other forces rather than focus on religion which is what people do in Central and Middle East Asia. The religion you're talking about that states people should be put to death for blasphemy is a hypothetical one because it is not Islam. That being said even if such a religion were to have a text stipulating that, the Old Testament stipulates that kids should be stoned to death for disobeying their parents. There is context to a lot of these things that we are ignoring.

I don't think those people are Muslims either but I recognize that they're humans just like me and deserve the same rights as anyone else.

 

[Type Username Here]

I don't think those people are Muslims either but I recognize that they're humans just like me and deserve the same rights as anyone else.

That's all that matters in a secular society.

 

[RadaMillz]

The ahmediya sect was made up by british intelligence and their lapdogs in India during colonialism to control and corrupt the ignorant mass. To this day ahmediya community is heavily funded by their originators. They are NOT muslims.

But this attack on the innocent specially kids is anti Islamic and the mob should be tried for murder.

 

[Brosef]

yea but theyre not muslims

Neither you, any Islamic scholar/society, or any human being on this world can make that claim. Only Allah can decide:

"Ibn Abbas related that a man of the Banu Sulaim passed by a party of the Companions of the Holy Prophet and he had his goats with him. He offered salaam to them... They said, he has offered salaam to save himself. So they stopped and killed him, and took his goats. They brought these people to the Holy Prophet, so Allah revealed: 'O you who believe! When you go forth [to fight] in the way of Allah, make investigations, and do not say to anyone who offers you assalamu alaikum, You are not a believer'." (Tirmidhi)

and

"Do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace 'You are not a believer.' (Surah An-Nisa, 4:94)

So unless you want to disagree with the sayings of the Quran and Hadith you should stop calling others Non-Muslim.

Let your fellow Muslims eat. Or at least live.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

People killing each other over religion?

I never thought I'd see the day.

What a wonderful man-made construct!

 

[50CentStan]

Neither you, any Islamic scholar/society, or any human being on this world can make that claim. Only Allah can decide:

"Ibn Abbas related that a man of the Banu Sulaim passed by a party of the Companions of the Holy Prophet and he had his goats with him. He offered salaam to them... They said, he has offered salaam to save himself. So they stopped and killed him, and took his goats. They brought these people to the Holy Prophet, so Allah revealed: 'O you who believe! When you go forth [to fight] in the way of Allah, make investigations, and do not say to anyone who offers you assalamu alaikum, You are not a believer'." (Tirmidhi)

and

"Do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace 'You are not a believer.' (Surah An-Nisa, 4:94)

So unless you want to disagree with the sayings of the Quran and Hadith you should stop calling others Non-Muslim.

Let your fellow Muslims eat. Or at least live.

first off I did not say they should be murdered for any reason, they should be allowed to believe whatever they want. secondly they are not muslim, you know why? there are 5 pillars to islam, the first being the most important, the proclamation of faith, what is that? "there is no god but allah and Muhammad pbuh is his final messenger."

they dont even believe the proclamation of faith, so how the heck are they muslims? lets not use these hadiths you posted to justify ignorance.

edit: non muslims say salam to me all the time, and I always say it back to them. thats what the hadith you posted is about, i shouldnt get offended by them giving me salam, they are basically saying they hope i am in peace. that is not an act of aggression, but compassion, and I should show it back, thats what I take from what you posted.

 

[Brosef]

first off I did not say they should be murdered for any reason, they should be allowed to believe whatever they want. secondly they are not muslim, you know why? there are 5 pillars to islam, the first being the most important, the proclamation of faith, what is that? "there is no god but allah and Muhammad pbuh is his final messenger."

they dont even believe the proclamation of faith, so how the heck are they muslims? lets not use these hadiths you posted to justify ignorance.

edit: non muslims say salam to me all the time, and I always say it back to them. thats what the hadith you posted is about, i shouldnt get offended by them giving me salam, they are basically saying they hope i am in peace. that is not an act of aggression, but compassion, and I should show it back, thats what I take from what you posted.

1) Show me the arabic word for "final" in the Shahadah. I don't see it actually. Because you just put that in there yourself.

You're confused with one of the Quranic verses which calls Muhammad the "Seal of the prophets" or the "Last of the prophets," depending on your Arabic to English translation.

2) Ahmadis do believe the proclamation of faith. The correct Shahadah, FYI, is "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is his messenger."

3) The Hadith has nothing to do with anyone being offended. The Prophet (pbuh) was clearly upset that his followers judged the authenticity of another person who was saying the Shahadah. Just like what you and the extremists do to the Ahmadis.

We all know from multiple verses in the Quran that only God can judge humans. So you and these Pakistani extremists should stop.

 

[50CentStan]

1) Show me the arabic word for "final" in the Shahadah. I don't see it actually. Because you just put that in there yourself.

You're confused with one of the Quranic verses which calls Muhammad the "Seal of the prophets" or the "Last of the prophets," depending on your Arabic to English translation.

2) Ahmadis do believe the proclamation of faith. The correct Shahadah, FYI, is "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is his messenger."

3) The Hadith has nothing to do with anyone being offended. The Prophet (pbuh) was clearly upset that his followers judged the authenticity of another person who was saying the Shahadah. Just like what you and the extremists do to the Ahmadis.

We all know from multiple verses in the Quran that only God can judge humans. So you and these Pakistani extremists should stop.

bro just cuz you ahmedi you out here butt hurt, dont be, I dont care that you worship some indo pak cat that says hes the messiah, and hes dead and now his son is the messiah. The significance of the Prophet Muhammads pbuh name being in the Proclamation of faith is that he is the final messenger, Jesus was also Gods prophet, so was Moses, Jonah, Noah etc.... theres a reason they arent in the proclamation of faith.

You really trying to argue if muslims believe that the prophet Muhammad pbuh is the final prophet or not? dont reply to me again with your foolishness breh, believe what you want but dont think ima fall for the lies.

 

[Brosef]

bro just cuz you ahmedi you out here butt hurt, dont be, I dont care that you worship some indo pak cat that says hes the messiah, and hes dead and now his son is the messiah. The significance of the Prophet Muhammads pbuh name being in the Proclamation of faith is that he is the final messenger, Jesus was also Gods prophet, so was Moses, Jonah, Noah etc.... theres a reason they arent in the proclamation of faith.

You really trying to argue if muslims believe that the prophet Muhammad pbuh is the final prophet or not? dont reply to me again with your foolishness breh, believe what you want but dont think ima fall for the lies.

Come at me with Quran and Hadith otherwise there's no point having a discussion. You know you can't counter what I said.

Keep being ignorant and judgemental. Support the persecution of minority sects. You're no better than the Zionists.

 

[50CentStan]

Come at me with Quran and Hadith otherwise there's no point having a discussion. You know you can't counter what I said.

Keep being ignorant and judgemental. Support the persecution of minority sects. You're no better than the Zionists.

im ignorant? you saying I support the persecution of minority sects, when I clearly stated they dont deserve to die for being non muslims. I also said they can believe whatever they want, but its lies to me. And there are plenty of hadiths out there that recall the prophet PBUH saying hes the final messenger. google it and you will find it, they are plenty out there that the first few searches will have them. I know all about the Ahmedi community, I know they take care of each other, they have a lot of good qualities, but that doesnt make them muslim when they have a fundamental difference from a basic concept in Islam. again believe what you want, but to muslims across the world, Ahmedis can not be considered muslims. Just like if a dude bangs a dude, hes not straight, maybe to himself he is, but to the rest of the world hes bi or gay.

 

[Kublai Khan]

I honestly think it's a strong one

There are dozens of legitimate criticisms of Islam and Muslims and I stay out of those threads. I only ride out in the threads that I feel are missing the point of the issue at hand. Different cultural groups have different histories and it's impossible to ignore that if you want to have a serious discussion.

Al Shabaab has terrorized Somalia for the last 5 years and even though they're dying down, they still enjoy some influence in some places. They are a radical Islamist group. Now would I be honest or remiss if I focused on how Islam is the problem with Shabaab and Somalia? I'm not an expert on Pakistan but I can tell you that even from this distant view that there are other more important factors. Even the Taliban were really a Pashtun nationalist movement.

Taliban is straight Pashtun, these are the uneducated inbred people of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The other tribes are straight up peaceful like the Tajiks,Uzbeks, and Hazara.

 

[Techniec]

Taliban is straight Pashtun, these are the uneducated inbred people of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The other tribes are straight up peaceful like the Tajiks,Uzbeks, and Hazara.