Peter King: GMs hesitant on mobile QBs

[resurrection]

This isn't limited to mobile QBs though. Some guys wanna maximize their potential, most guys just wanna get by or be good enough. This is true in all sports and all walks of life really. We can't sit here and act like being less athletic automatically means you will work more or develop other skills because there are plenty of other crutches aside from athleticism out there. Having a dad that is the coach can be a crutch. Having a famous last name can be a crutch. Having a big arm can be a crutch. Being bigger and stronger than everybody else your whole life can be a crutch. Having a certain type of offense or certain caliber of players around you can be a crutch. We have seen guys in each category succeed and flame out at the pro level. It all comes down to the individual. There is no logical basis to judge a QB by anything other than what he brings to the table.

Right, I think you and I are basically saying the same thing. This is all true and I've even made every point in this post earlier in this thread. I just think the only thing we disagree on is that you think mobile QBs are being singled out or picked on because of their race, and I just think that while that may be true for some people, until more mobile QBs have sustained, long-term success in the NFL, the stigma will be there whether you're racist or not. I have the exact same stigma for the Case Keenum/Timmy Chang/etc. "college clown show system QBs". Those are obvious. The "big arm but not much else" stigma is harder to spot in college because guys are still getting away with it and they are in pro-style offenses so there is nothing obvious that stands out that you can point to UNTIL you see them fail in the NFL with your own eyes.

 

[King Kreole]

This isn't limited to mobile QBs though. Some guys wanna maximize their potential, most guys just wanna get by or be good enough. This is true in all sports and all walks of life really. We can't sit here and act like being less athletic automatically means you will work more or develop other skills because there are plenty of other crutches aside from athleticism out there. Having a dad that is the coach can be a crutch. Having a famous last name can be a crutch. Having a big arm can be a crutch. Being bigger and stronger than everybody else your whole life can be a crutch. Having a certain type of offense or certain caliber of players around you can be a crutch. We have seen guys in each category succeed and flame out at the pro level. It all comes down to the individual. There is no logical basis to judge a QB by anything other than what he brings to the table.

Oh yeah, for sure. For the record, I think having a cannon arm is pretty similar to being highly mobile when it comes to this issue, because it can mask many of the problems that come with learning the finer points of quarterbacking. And I definitely agree that being more athletic doesn't mean you work less or anything, that's on the individual. It's just that the athletic qb with less work/development is more likely to get to the next level than an unathletic qb with less work/development. If you're stuck in the pocket and have shytty qb skills, you're not gonna do anything. If you're athletic and have shytty qb skills, you can at least do SOMETHING. But both will be exposed at the NFL level.

 

[FTBS]

Right, I think you and I are basically saying the same thing. This is all true and I've even made every point in this post earlier in this thread. I just think the only thing we disagree on is that you think mobile QBs are being singled out or picked on because of their race, and I just think that while that may be true for some people, until more mobile QBs have sustained, long-term success in the NFL, the stigma will be there whether you're racist or not. I have the exact same stigma for the Case Keenum/Timmy Chang/etc. "college clown show system QBs". Those are obvious. The "big arm but not much else" stigma is harder to spot in college because guys are still getting away with it and they are in pro-style offenses so there is nothing obvious that stands out that you can point to UNTIL you see them fail in the NFL with your own eyes.

Wasn't the basis of you point how running QBs are able to get away with it in college as well? Now that is the reason people don't single out big arm guys? It's very easy to spot a guy that forces throws and relies on his arm too much...they get called gunslingers and praised and never ever marginalized. As a matter of fact, if you wanna talk about guys getting hype purely because of something...it's big arms. What did Stafford do in college that was so special? Flacco was bumped up to the first round purely because of his arm. Same reason people fell in love with Cutler. Guys like JaMarcus and Couch and Carr and Locker and Leaf were hyped up because of their arms. If you wanna be all the way real, we have seen far more big arm flame outs than mobile ones recently. A mobile guy has to really show his ass (throwing and running) to be taken seriously and taken early and they generally have some success before flaming out. Meanwhile if a guy can throw it 70 yds from his knees he basically guarantees himself a top 10 spot and a lot of these guys never even show flashes on the next level. I don't think we can just call it all a coincidence that the majority of the big arm guys are white and the majority of the running guys are black. They have the same exact concerns and big arm guys really have a worse track record when you think about, but I never hear or read about hesitance to draft the next big arm guy.

Oh yeah, for sure. For the record, I think having a cannon arm is pretty similar to being highly mobile when it comes to this issue, because it can mask many of the problems that come with learning the finer points of quarterbacking. And I definitely agree that being more athletic doesn't mean you work less or anything, that's on the individual. It's just that the athletic qb with less work/development is more likely to get to the next level than an unathletic qb with less work/development. If you're stuck in the pocket and have shytty qb skills, you're not gonna do anything. If you're athletic and have shytty qb skills, you can at least do SOMETHING. But both will be exposed at the NFL level.

And all I am saying is that should be the basis of the conversation because that is all it comes down to.

 

[Knights89]

you're a fellow Lions correct @FTBS? Six years in Stafford play is so His only saving grace is that may be the worst top half of a draft in recent years. Didnt miss out on any great player.

 

[iceberg_is_on_fire]

Stafford is still there because he gives his fans enough to proclaim his greatness (stats) and his detractors enough to want to kill him (W-L record) Also, Martin Mayhew's job is tied to Stafford's success.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Wasn't the basis of you point how running QBs are able to get away with it in college as well? Now that is the reason people don't single out big arm guys? It's very easy to spot a guy that forces throws and relies on his arm too much...they get called gunslingers and praised and never ever marginalized. As a matter of fact, if you wanna talk about guys getting hype purely because of something...it's big arms. What did Stafford do in college that was so special? Flacco was bumped up to the first round purely because of his arm. Same reason people fell in love with Cutler. Guys like JaMarcus and Couch and Carr and Locker and Leaf were hyped up because of their arms. If you wanna be all the way real, we have seen far more big arm flame outs than mobile ones recently. A mobile guy has to really show his ass (throwing and running) to be taken seriously and taken early and they generally have some success before flaming out. Meanwhile if a guy can throw it 70 yds from his knees he basically guarantees himself a top 10 spot and a lot of these guys never even show flashes on the next level. I don't think we can just call it all a coincidence that the majority of the big arm guys are white and the majority of the running guys are black. They have the same exact concerns and big arm guys really have a worse track record when you think about, but I never hear or read about hesitance to draft the next big arm guy.



And all I am saying is that should be the basis of the conversation because that is all it comes down to.

No matter how many ways you tell him, he'll remain stubbornly fixed to his beliefs, unable to see that only the mobile nature of a struggling qb diss that attribute get viewed negatively and placed onto others who fit that mold.

 

[FTBS]

you're a fellow Lions correct @FTBS? Six years in Stafford play is so His only saving grace is that may be the worst top half of a draft in recent years. Didnt miss out on any great player.

Yup ( ). And that is a big part of the reason I view this topic the way that I do. If Stafford was some mobile QB, doing some of the dumb shyt he's done, being as inconsistent as he's been his ass would've been by now. Instead we are pretty much stuck with this fukker .

 

[FTBS]

Stafford is still there because he gives his fans enough to proclaim his greatness (stats) and his detractors enough to want to kill him (W-L record) Also, Martin Mayhew's job is tied to Stafford's success.

And outside of 2011 his stats aren't even that good. Anybody with sense can say that all he's done is compile a bunch of yds without cashing in and while making bone headed mistake after boneheaded mistake. You throw it 700 times you should have 5000 yds.

No matter how many ways you tell him, he'll remain stubbornly fixed to his beliefs, unable to see that only the mobile nature of a struggling qb diss that attribute get viewed negatively and placed onto others who fit that mold.

I'm not a conspiracy theory, every black person's struggle is a result of the man trying to hold us back type dude but damn this ain't hard to see .

 

[intruder]

i guess King has nothing to say about Ryan Tannehill

Yeah Tanny does take too many shots at times. Especially with him being so skinny i always cringe when i see him run because im afraid some LB will split his body in half

 

[JLova]

I remember when mobile QBs and read option changed the game 3 years ago

And the game got rid of it.

People don't understand the way the world works. The NFL will always be a league built for the traditional drop back QB. Guys like Kaep and Russ do not take a lot of big hits and are durable.

It's funny how the league works. You got Stafford, Eli, Alex freaking Smith flying under the radar while guys like Kaep, RG3 and Cam get destroyed.

Dalton got 13 TD 13 INT. Not a single person in the media questioning his intelligence or whether he can play the game. Kaep, Cam, RG3 are all of a sudden regressing and should be benched. These clowns and their agendas.

 

[NYC Rebel]

And the game got rid of it.

People don't understand the way the world works. The NFL will always be a league built for the traditional drop back QB. Guys like Kaep and Russ do not take a lot of big hits and are durable.

What does the disappearance of the read option have to do with the discussion of mobile qbs? Mobile qbs exited a before and after that offenses use, so it's a useless point

 

[NYC Rebel]

Yeah Tanny does take too many shots at times. Especially with him being so skinny i always cringe when i see him run because im afraid some LB will split his body in half

He holds on to the ball too long....reminds me of Kenny O'Brien

 

[intruder]

He holds on to the ball too long....reminds me of Kenny O'Brien

In the pocket, yeah. Im talking about on the run. Good thing he's pretty good at sliding

 

[Lakers Offseason]

And the game got rid of it.

People don't understand the way the world works. The NFL will always be a league built for the traditional drop back QB. Guys like Kaep and Russ do not take a lot of big hits and are durable.

It's funny how the league works. You got Stafford, Eli, Alex freaking Smith flying under the radar while guys like Kaep, RG3 and Cam get destroyed.

Dalton got 13 TD 13 INT. Not a single person in the media questioning his intelligence or whether he can play the game. Kaep, Cam, RG3 are all of a sudden regressing and should be benched. These clowns and their agendas.

All QBs get criticized. GTFOH with this shyt. Brady got criticized. Aaron got criticized early this year. Peyton gets shytted on constantly. My boy Flacco on a weekly basis here in Bmore gets shytted on. But Cam gets criticized and all of a sudden there's an agenda. Yeah, the agenda is that he sucks

 

[NYC Rebel]

All QBs get criticized. GTFOH with this shyt. Brady got criticized. Aaron got criticized early this year. Peyton gets shytted on constantly. My boy Flacco on a weekly basis here in Bmore gets shytted on. But Cam gets criticized and all of a sudden there's an agenda. Yeah, the agenda is that he sucks

Who said "individual qbs don't get criticized"?

I thought this thread was about a genre of qbs criticized because one qb of that style fails and others are lumped together.

For example.... PETER KINGS ARTICLE

You're convincing yourself you're a part of the conversation when you aren't.