Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

[storyteller]

Not that this is anything we haven't discussed repeatedly, but the defensive collapse is centered pretty heavily on the abominable perimeter defense we've been witnessing. Teams have been attacking via guard penetration at a rate that is disturbing and it's pulling everyone out of position and freeing up three point shooters or bigs to grab offensive rebounds (or quick passes for inside lay-ups and dunks). Herring's providing some stats to support what most have been complaining about. I think what's laid out here is the case for Galloway starting (and at this point, I'd take him in either guard position).

Knicks Defense Frays at the Edges

In particular, opponents have collapsed the Knicks’ defense far too easily in recent games. With only a drive and a pass or two, opponents have been getting open looks from 3-point range or making a lob pass to a rolling big man as Lopez or Porzingis steps up to challenge the penetrating guard.

Chris Paul danced his way to the basket 10 times during the Clippers’ blowout win Friday, up from his average of six drives per game, per NBA.com. Charlotte’s Jeremy Lin, averaging 7.5 drives per contest, sped toward the basket 12 times in a win over the Knicks on Saturday. Ish Smith, Philadelphia’s point guard, drove a mindboggling 26 times in the Knicks’ double-overtime win over the Sixers, more than double his season average of 11 drives per game. (Even Clippers guard Pablo Prigioni, who almost never drives, got to the basket six times against his former team earlier this week.)

The struggles to contain guard penetration have coincided with opposing teams hitting threes at a much higher rate. After ranking dead-last in the NBA in 3-point percentage defense last season, the Knicks began this season by leading the league in the category for the first month and a half of play. But after limiting opponents to 29.8% from deep in November and 32.1% in December, the Knicks are surrendering 3-pointers on 37.7% of attempts so far this month, which ranks ninth-worst.

Lance gets a little love here too, I think we miss him more because Fish replaces him in the rotation with three or four guys at once which throws chemistry into the ringer (he's not guarding PG's or SG's frequently enough to change our glaring issue imo) but it's true that his hustle and communication would at least help the problem a bit. Regardless, the mess starts at the top of the key...

Left unsolved, the flaw could see the Knicks struggle even more with defensive rebounding and fouls—two areas where they already rank among the league’s bottom-10 teams. Relying too much on bigs to make plays at the basket inevitably leads to more fouls, and potentially leaves those same players out of position to clean the glass at the end of a play.

Asked whether the recent showings on defense signaled anything about the need for more athleticism on the wings, Fisher rejected the notion. “We’re the same team we were a week ago, or three days ago, when we had enough to beat whoever we were playing at the time,” he said Friday, adding that the Clippers, the opponent that night, are unusually fast and athletic.

Some of that is true. But there is also one key difference: The recent absence through injury of Lance Thomas, the team’s best and most versatile perimeter defender, has hurt the club, loosening what had become a much tighter, more consistent rotation. (His injury also highlights the team’s curious decision in free agency last summer to sign an abundance of big men as opposed to stocking up on wing players and following the NBA’s small-ball trend.)

And here's Fish, in what I assume is an attempt at supporting his guys "you can play defense, you did it before, now get it back!" but like with the "won't be disappointed" comments, I'd like a more direct challenge to the guys. Like I said just above, I don't think Lance coming back solves our problems when our starting backcourt is so frequently victimized. He'll help tighten up rotations but even he was getting sucked out of position by guard penetration (ie: him giving three FT's and then a wide open three pointer to the Sixers in crunch time a few games back).

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

I don't know why Fisher is so stubborn with Calderon, he has to see all the issues he's causing on game film, the shyt is clear as day. Galloway deserves a shot at starting. I wish there was a way to get Dennis Schroder or Teague from the Hawks, but don't think they'll let the Knicks fleece them twice.

 

[Victim of Racism]

Not that this is anything we haven't discussed repeatedly, but the defensive collapse is centered pretty heavily on the abominable perimeter defense we've been witnessing. Teams have been attacking via guard penetration at a rate that is disturbing and it's pulling everyone out of position and freeing up three point shooters or bigs to grab offensive rebounds (or quick passes for inside lay-ups and dunks). Herring's providing some stats to support what most have been complaining about. I think what's laid out here is the case for Galloway starting (and at this point, I'd take him in either guard position).

Knicks Defense Frays at the Edges

Lance gets a little love here too, I think we miss him more because Fish replaces him in the rotation with three or four guys at once which throws chemistry into the ringer (he's not guarding PG's or SG's frequently enough to change our glaring issue imo) but it's true that his hustle and communication would at least help the problem a bit. Regardless, the mess starts at the top of the key...

And here's Fish, in what I assume is an attempt at supporting his guys "you can play defense, you did it before, now get it back!" but like with the "won't be disappointed" comments, I'd like a more direct challenge to the guys. Like I said just above, I don't think Lance coming back solves our problems when our starting backcourt is so frequently victimized. He'll help tighten up rotations but even he was getting sucked out of position by guard penetration (ie: him giving three FT's and then a wide open three pointer to the Sixers in crunch time a few games back).

It's popular to blame the defense on Jose, but it's neither fair, nor accurate. Curry and Tony Parker are trash defensively and their teams' defense is just fine because of their wing (Kawhi) and interior (Tim) defense, which is more important than pg defense. Miami's pg's can't guard. Despite this, Hassan is both a good 1-on-1 defender and rim-protector and Miami's overall defense is great. Most pg's are trash defensively. And this season, almost all of them are. The good defending pg's of the past (CP3, Wall, Conley, and Rondo) are not even better than Jose on defense this season (both film and stats will vouch for this fact).

Gallo and Grant were getting blown by and scored on by Ish,Teague, Shroeder, etc, just like Jose was. Even good wing defenders of the past are trash defensively (Butler and Klay). Basically, no one is stopping pg's in the league. It doesn't absolve Jose, by any means. Just like the scoring of pg's like Kyrie, Curry, Harden, and Lillard doesn't excuse their trash defense in my view. Arron averaging 14 points on 46% shooting doesn't excuse his trash defense this season. One off topic thing I'd like to point out on Arron is how tacky it is that the media has trained the fans to pick at Arron every single time he has a bad shooting game, despite his good shooting average, clutch shooting, and all the double and triple-teams he draws. He's gone above and beyond his duty to NY offensively, despite not getting the amount of shots he deserves.

Back on topic: as I said, pg defense isn't as important as interior and wing defense. Well, again, Arron was brought in to slow down talented shooting guards (this is crucial). The fact that he hasn't done that all season, isn't Jose's fault. 'Melo guards the talented forwards in the league very well. He has punked Lj (in Cleveland), Kawhi (in San Antonio), and Wesley Matthews to name 3.

Jose isn't causing Rolo to be trash defensively. I sit here and watch him defend without getting a hand up and it irks me to no end. Jose isn't making KP a trash perimeter defender. He's doing that all by himself. Jose isn't making O'Quinn trash on defense. O'Quinn doesn't even know what the defensive stance is. He just leans over his defender and tries to poke the ball away, daring the refs to call a foul on him. He certainly isn't making Sasha trash on defense. Jose isn't making Lance not rebound. He isn't making Derrick weak defensively (though Derrick has improved both his defense and rebounding, I'm proud of him).

No, you don't want Jose in p&r situations because he struggles with screens, but so does 'Melo. I don't know if that's just because of his knee or if that's always been the case with him. 'Melo is still playing elite defense this year, though. In the 2012-2013 season (NY's best in 15 years), the Bulls let Felton penetrate and lob to Tyson as much as he wanted, but stayed home with the shooters. They swept NY that season with that strategy. If guard penetration is resulting in buckets, it's because NY isn't guarding their own man and most of the Knicks don't.

Curry and Klay scored a lot of points on a high fg% and 3fg% but the GSW still got blown out by the Pistons because they stopped Iggy, Barbosa, Draymond, Barnes, and Livingston. The Bulls and Cavs got blown out by the GSW because they doubled Curry and let the others go off. CP3 shot like trash and Blake didn't even play, but NY got blown out because they let Pierce, Jamal, Mbah a Moute, Wesley Johnson, Cole Aldrich, J.J. Redikk, and Pablo go off. Kemba was trash but NY got blown out because they let Lin, P.J., and Kaminsky go off. Yea, the refs cheated NY in that game, like the always do, and there's no excuse for that, but NY hasn't guarded anyone since November.

If NY loses to OKC and the GSW, for example, it won't be solely because Jose didn't guard. It will be because several other Knicks didn't either. At this point, I'm not sure if pep talks and benching is gonna cut it. The only people that has seemed to change is Derrick and Seraphin, who have improved both their defense and rebounding. Lance still won't rebound but he defends, so it's like it doesn't matter, but boarding is important. It seems it's time to get rid of several folks, not just Jose. And no, I'm not saying get rid of Lance, or even Rolo. Wroten is terrible defensively, btw. Jimmer too.

 

[ikbm]

hey guys, we might have the worlds first jose calderon stan
that nikka is awful, period

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

hey guys, we might have the worlds first jose calderon stan
that nikka is awful, period

I can't believe this shyt breh


She makes some great points but damn if u don't see what it's doing to this team then you're blind!

 

[DPresidential]

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

What do you mean it's not fair to Calderon? What's not fair is that our bigs have to constantly help on defense because Calderon can't keep air in front of him.

We've been saying this the past 2 seasons (and people who have seen Calderon play in Toronto & elsewhere) have BEEN saying dude is a defensively liability because he can't keep anybody in front of him. Those stats from that article just proved that. And calling KP a trash perimeter defender is silly because A 7'3" DUDE is suppose to be in the paint altering & blocking shots like he's been doing.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Curry and Klay scored a lot of points on a high fg% and 3fg% but the GSW still got blown out by the Pistons because they stopped Iggy, Barbosa, Draymond, Barnes, and Livingston. The Bulls and Cavs got blown out by the GSW because they doubled Curry and let the others go off. CP3 shot like trash and Blake didn't even play, but NY got blown out because they let Pierce, Jamal, Mbah a Moute, Wesley Johnson, Cole Aldrich, J.J. Redikk, and Pablo go off. Kemba was trash but NY got blown out because they let Lin, P.J., and Kaminsky go off. Yea, the refs cheated NY in that game, like the always do, and there's no excuse for that, but NY hasn't guarded anyone since November.

Do you know why Pierce, Crawford & the rest of the Clippers went off, that's because CP3 was breaking down the defense & kicking out to the open man, which is why the Clippers shot 56% from downtown on us.

Yeah Kemba shot badly, but he still got to the line 9 times. And again him & Lin were going off because they were getting passed our perimeter players.

 

[storyteller]

I'll just say this, there's no one clear most important defensive position. But a defense is a house of cards barring absolute perfection in rotations and communications. When one weakness appears and is exploited, it doesn't matter who the rest of the defenders are, the defense will collapse. The Knicks weakness is Guard penetration and that duty falls on Jose and AA. The major increases in drives per game by opposing guards compared to their norms is a clear sign that teams are keying this weakness. You stop the guard penetration and the other pieces can play to their strengths...but you can't stop guard penetration with forwards or a center, that comes down to the guards themselves...they either step up or get replaced, otherwise your defense will be exploited and everyone will look worse for it.

 

[Victim of Racism]

I can't believe this shyt breh


She makes some great points but damn if u don't see what it's doing to this team then you're blind!

None of the other pg's on the team are doing any better. Jose can stop every pg and if 6 other players aren't guarding, NY will lose. Not sure why that's deep. Case in point: the GSW's blowout loss to the Pistons. I acknowledged that his trash defense affects the team. I said he's not absolved and that he needs to go. But this idea that he's the only one to blame, while giving passes and making excuses for Arron, Rolo, KP, O'Quinn, and Derrick is ridiculous. If pg defense is NY's problem, they will never solve it because no pg is stopping other pg's and for the most part, they never have. It's easier to just admit your bias.

What do you mean it's not fair to Calderon? What's not fair is that our bigs have to constantly help on defense because Calderon can't keep air in front of him.

We've been saying this the past 2 seasons (and people who have seen Calderon play in Toronto & elsewhere) have BEEN saying dude is a defensively liability because he can't keep anybody in front of him. Those stats from that article just proved that. And calling KP a trash perimeter defender is silly because A 7'3" DUDE is suppose to be in the paint altering & blocking shots like he's been doing.

Miami's pg's can't guard. It's not stopping Hassan from being both a good 1-on-1 defender and rim protector. Rolo won't get a hand up. And KP flat out can't guard and leaves people to block shots. None of that is Jose's fault. Jose's trash defense isn't anyone's fault and the other players' trash defense isn't his fault. Everyone is responsible for their own trash defense. Rolo is paid to clean up the mess when players get blown by and Jose isn't the only one getting blown by. What isn't fair is blaming him for not stopping players that no one in the league is stopping (pg's). What's unfair is blaming him for the trash defense of other players. If pg defense is NY's problem, they will never solve it because no pg is stopping other pg's and for the most part, they never have. It's easier to just admit your bias.

Do you know why Pierce, Crawford & the rest of the Clippers went off, that's because CP3 was breaking down the defense & kicking out to the open man, which is why the Clippers shot 56% from downtown on us.

Yeah Kemba shot badly, but he still got to the line 9 times. And again him & Lin were going off because they were getting passed our perimeter players.

Nope, Pierce, Jamal the rest of the Clippers went off because those who were assigned to them didn't guard them and it's been like that since the end of November. The whole team got to the line because Charlotte cheats in Charlotte. Lin got 10 free throws. I acknowledged this. It still doesn't excuse NY not guarding since November. If pg defense is NY's problem, they will never solve it because no pg is stopping other pg's and for the most part, they never have. It's easier to just admit your bias.

I'll just say this, there's no one clear most important defensive position. But a defense is a house of cards barring absolute perfection in rotations and communications. When one weakness appears and is exploited, it doesn't matter who the rest of the defenders are, the defense will collapse. The Knicks weakness is Guard penetration and that duty falls on Jose and AA. The major increases in drives per game by opposing guards compared to their norms is a clear sign that teams are keying this weakness. You stop the guard penetration and the other pieces can play to their strengths...but you can't stop guard penetration with forwards or a center, that comes down to the guards themselves...they either step up or get replaced, otherwise your defense will be exploited and everyone will look worse for it.

In the 2012-2013 season (NY's best in 15 years), the Bulls let Felton penetrate and lob to Tyson as much as he wanted, but stayed home with the shooters. They swept NY that season with that strategy. If guard penetration is resulting in buckets, it's because NY isn't guarding their own man and most of the Knicks don't.

If all of this is Jose's fault, why did the GSW get blown out when Curry and Klay scored a lot of points on a high fg%, both from the field and from 3? Why is Miami's, the GSW's, and the SAS' defense in tact when their pg's can't guard? If pg defense is NY's problem, they will never solve it because no pg is stopping other pg's and for the most part, they never have. Arron, Rolo, KP, O'Quinn, and Derrick do not deserve passes for their trash defense when a 31 year old 'Melo can play elite defense on 1 knee.

 

[Wargames]

I think you guys are all stressing this team too much. They are a rebuilding team that is lucky they have Melo and KP so they have a punchers chance against just about any other team.


Lance helped hide Calderon alongside the rest of the team and even as a group they couldn't do it every night.
.

We should win around 41 wins and hopefully sneak into the playoffs. There is no reason to continue go this deep with this year's squad. When we're basically repeating ourselves based on when they win or lose.


We all know it could be worse

And it's likely to get better soon with KP and Melo as a draw to FA and the fact we got all our picks starting next season. Along with Phil keeping Dolan away.

 

[Victim of Racism]

 

[Malta]

@ZemaPromos must have a thing for Spainards or some shyt, Jose Calderon is not a starting level PG, it's why Detroit & Dallas got rid of him. He cannot defend, period. You cannot have a competent defense in the NBA giving up dribble penetration to every PG you play against, which is what Jose does, it leads to breakdowns all over the court and puts more pressure on the bigs.

Lopez & Porzingis are a very good defensive frontcourt together, teams are shooting 47% at the rim vs them, which is excellent for a tandem, usually teams have 1 guy sub 50% and then another above, you say KP can't defend yet his rim protection numbers are almost identical to Karl Towns, and he's got the 2nd best defensive rating on the Knicks You bring up Hassan Whiteside being a good defender, opponents are shooting 47.5% at the rim vs him, Porzingis is at 47.1% All of this to defend Jose "Matador" Calderon? Muthafukkas were calling him a bad defender when he was in his 20s, but now he's not to blame for the Knicks defense in his 30s?

He's on the floor for his shooting which the triangle needs and because he fully understands how it's run, they're hoping Lopez/Porzingis can clean up his mess which they cant. He is without question the weak link for the Knicks defense, they will be a top 10 defensive team if/when they get rid of him at PG.

 

[I.V.]

@ZemaPromos must have a thing for Spainards or some shyt, Jose Calderon is not a starting level PG, it's why Detroit & Dallas got rid of him. He cannot defend, period. You cannot have a competent defense in the NBA giving up dribble penetration to every PG you play against, which is what Jose does, it leads to breakdowns all over the court and puts more pressure on the bigs.

Lopez & Porzingis are a very good defensive frontcourt together, teams are shooting 47% at the rim vs them, which is excellent for a tandem, usually teams have 1 guy sub 50% and then another above, you say KP can't defend yet his rim protection numbers are almost identical to Karl Towns, and he's got the 2nd best defensive rating on the Knicks You bring up Hassan Whiteside being a good defender, opponents are shooting 47.5% at the rim vs him, Porzingis is at 47.1% All of this to defend Jose "Matador" Calderon? Muthafukkas were calling him a bad defender when he was in his 20s, but now he's not to blame for the Knicks defense in his 30s?

He's on the floor for his shooting which the triangle needs and because he fully understands how it's run, they're hoping Lopez/Porzingis can clean up his mess which they cant. He is without question the weak link for the Knicks defense, they will be a top 10 defensive team if/when they get rid of him at PG.

You haven't blocked her yet?

 

[Malta]

You haven't blocked her yet?

I don't block anyone, my filter is Jose Calderon status letting all messages through