Did you just @ yourself?
Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread
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Every time I see someone respond to her I'mnikkas in here still debating zema, i see
save yourself the headache
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Bruh she takes whatever someone says and flips it and tries to make you sound wrong. It's like a Jedi mind trick. I stopped arguing with her but when I see that outlandish shyt it gets me
accusing everyone of being anti Melo
And being brainwashed by ESPN ... fukk all that.
Like KP don't go out there fighting for rebounds. Makes it seem like it's all because of rolo..
Zelma warrior princess- "KP didnt deserve to put up 18 shots"
You're just accusing me of saying "everyone" is anti-'Melo and brainwashed because I said you are.
Quote me twisting anyone's words.
Nope. It's not all Rolo helping KP board. It's not all KP either, which is what you expect us to believe. Why don't you tell us how many he got with Whiteside in the game when Rolo wasn't boxing Whiteside out? I posted the video, so it should be easy for you. Rolo inflates most of NY's rebounding numbers from his boxing out.
Jose was making shots. KP and 'Melo weren't. And if you're gonna keep feeding someone who isn't making shots, it should be Arron, who shot a higher percentage than KP, and is a proven shot-maker. KP is a proven brick-layer so far. Now go shed another tear and sling another false accusation.
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Did you just @ yourself?
Knicksman20
Superstar
Whose Start Is More Impressive, Porzingis or Towns?
The NBA's early Rookie of the Year race is as crowded as it's been in quite some time.
So far, though, Karl-Anthony Towns and Kristaps Porzingis seem to be leading the pack. In less than a month of NBA service time, each has managed to rejuvenate a suffering franchise and reinvigorate scores of once-forlorn fans.
Towns, the No. 1 pick out of Kentucky, has lived up to that top billing and then some. He's proven to be a quick study under mentor, teammate and frontcourt partner Kevin Garnett and might already be the Minnesota Timberwolves' best and most impactful all-around player.
Porzingis, the No. 4 pick from Latvia by way of Spain, has ridden the periodic New York Knicks hype train to a prominent spot on the marquee at Madison Square Garden. Along the way, he's turned Carmelo Anthony, oncea supposed skeptic, into one ofhis staunchest supporters.
Both clearly have bright futures in basketball, but which of these potentially franchise-changing talents has been better to date?
At a Glance
Jordan Johnson/Getty Images
By and large, Towns has been the more productive of the two rookies from the get-go. He ranks second among rookies in scoring (16 points per game), behind only Jahlil Okafor, and paces his peers in rebounding (10.4 boards per game) and shot-blocking (2.4 blocks per game).
Porzingis isn't all that far behind Towns, statistically speaking. Within his class, the "Zinger" is a top-three scorer (13.2 points), rebounder (8.8 rebounds) and shot-blocker (1.5 blocks).
But where Porzingis' numbers are great for a player of his experience, Towns' are already elite compared to the entire league.
He's sixth in rebounding, ahead of All-Stars like Anthony Davis, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh. He's tied for fifth in blocks, neck-and-neck with elite rim protectors like Roy Hibbert and Serge Ibaka.
And only Andre Drummond, the league leader in rebounding, and Russell Westbrook, tops in the Association in assists, can claim more double-doubles than Towns' eight.
Porzingis, though, is no slouch. He already has six double-doubles to his credit.
The Details: Offense
Troy Taormina-USA TODAY Sports
Towns' eye-popping box scores don't mean he's the more polished player between the two. As one scout told Sporting News' Sean Deveney:
The funny thing to me is, if you look at the numbers, you would assume he has it all figured out, that he is pretty much NBA-ready. But if you watch him, he is not even close. He's still sort of confused about a lot of things out there. I mean that in a good way, because it is like he is doing all that he is doing on just his instincts and his natural ability.
Porzingis has plenty of his own rough edges to sand down, but his skills are already evident. His outside stroke is smooth and effortless, especially for a player of his size (7’3”). He shoots it with confidence from anywhere and at any moment, as he did on a near-game-winner against the Charlotte Hornets:
His overall percentages (42.7 percent from the field, 30.8 percent from three) are far from sparkling, though he’s upped the ante considerably since Veteran’s Day:
Kristaps Porzingis, Before and After Veteran's Day
Games Mins Pts FGA FG% 3P%
Before 8 23.7 11.8 10.9 37.9% 21.7%
After 6 29.3 15.2 11.7 48.6% 43.8%
Basketball Reference
"His shooting stroke is as pure as any big to come into the NBA ... as good as Dirk's,” Scott Roth, who worked with a young Dirk Nowitzki in 1999 and with Porzingis in Spain, told ESPN’s Marc Stein. “He also has no fear and, more importantly, he has no ego. This is just a great kid with a great work ethic and a real love of the game.”
The same could just as easily be said of Towns. He may not have the freedom to launch the nearly three threes per game that Porzingis does, but he’s actually outshooting his Knicks counterpart inside the arc:
Towns vs. Porzingis: Shooting Inside the Arc
0-3 Feet 3-10 Feet 10-16 Feet 16 Feet < 3
Towns 67.3% 44.7% 42.9% 50%
Porzingis 55.3% 40.6% 35% 50%
Basketball Reference
“We all know I can hit 3s,” he told ESPN’s Zach Lowe. “But for now, I’m taking what the defense gives me.”
The Details: Defense
Adam Hunger-USA TODAY Sports
Despite his wiry frame (7’3”, 240 pounds), Porzingis has done a decent job of locking down the paint. According to NBA.com, he has held opponents to 49.4 percent shooting at the rim, ahead of average across the Association (61.5 percent, per Basketball Reference).
Towns, though, has held his foes to a lower percentage at the rim (45.5 percent) while facing nearly twice as many attempts (10.3) as has Porzingis (5.9). It helps that he, at 7'0" and 250 pounds, has a stronger build to throw around.
Not that Towns isn’t susceptible to getting smacked by more experienced opponents. In his fourth game, Towns managed just six points on 3-of-13 shooting against Miami Heat center Hassan Whiteside.
His Timberwolves lost that game but have since bounced back to beat the Heat in Miami, courtesy of a 14-point, 14-rebound effort from Towns.
As it happens, Minnesota and New York have each given up 100.7 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com. Porzingis, though, has had a more dramatic effect on the Knicks’ defense than Towns has had on that of the T-Wolves:
Porzingis vs. Towns: Defensive Efficiency On/Off
Porzingis Towns
Defensive Efficiency ON 97.5 99.3
Defensive Efficiency OFF 104.4 103
Differential +6.9 +4.3
Basketball Reference
And if wins and losses count when considering these two, Porzingis' 8-6 Knicks come out ahead of Towns' 5-8 Timberwolves.
Pick Your Rookie
Jim Mone/Associated Press
In some respects, Porzingis should be more of a game-changer than Towns right now and not just because he’s three-and-a-half months older. In basketball years, the gap is greater than that. While Porzingis was honing his game against seasoned pros in Spain, Towns was busy dominating teenagers at the high school and college levels.
In the bigger picture, Towns has had the better start, despite what all the hubbub in the Big Apple would suggest. While Porzingis' production has been a plus for a veteran Knicks squad, Towns might already be Minnesota's best player.
Who will have the better NBA career?
Porzingis Towns Submit Vote vote to see results
But the first four weeks of basketball won't likely define the careers of these two precocious talents. At some point, both will be tasked with taking leading roles in the renaissances of their respective franchises.
For now, they can focus on becoming the best ballplayers they can—and chasing the Eddie Gottlieb Trophy.
All stats are accurate as of games played on Nov. 22, 2015.
The NBA's early Rookie of the Year race is as crowded as it's been in quite some time.
So far, though, Karl-Anthony Towns and Kristaps Porzingis seem to be leading the pack. In less than a month of NBA service time, each has managed to rejuvenate a suffering franchise and reinvigorate scores of once-forlorn fans.
Towns, the No. 1 pick out of Kentucky, has lived up to that top billing and then some. He's proven to be a quick study under mentor, teammate and frontcourt partner Kevin Garnett and might already be the Minnesota Timberwolves' best and most impactful all-around player.
Porzingis, the No. 4 pick from Latvia by way of Spain, has ridden the periodic New York Knicks hype train to a prominent spot on the marquee at Madison Square Garden. Along the way, he's turned Carmelo Anthony, oncea supposed skeptic, into one ofhis staunchest supporters.
Both clearly have bright futures in basketball, but which of these potentially franchise-changing talents has been better to date?
At a Glance
By and large, Towns has been the more productive of the two rookies from the get-go. He ranks second among rookies in scoring (16 points per game), behind only Jahlil Okafor, and paces his peers in rebounding (10.4 boards per game) and shot-blocking (2.4 blocks per game).
Porzingis isn't all that far behind Towns, statistically speaking. Within his class, the "Zinger" is a top-three scorer (13.2 points), rebounder (8.8 rebounds) and shot-blocker (1.5 blocks).
But where Porzingis' numbers are great for a player of his experience, Towns' are already elite compared to the entire league.
He's sixth in rebounding, ahead of All-Stars like Anthony Davis, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh. He's tied for fifth in blocks, neck-and-neck with elite rim protectors like Roy Hibbert and Serge Ibaka.
And only Andre Drummond, the league leader in rebounding, and Russell Westbrook, tops in the Association in assists, can claim more double-doubles than Towns' eight.
Porzingis, though, is no slouch. He already has six double-doubles to his credit.
The Details: Offense
Towns' eye-popping box scores don't mean he's the more polished player between the two. As one scout told Sporting News' Sean Deveney:
The funny thing to me is, if you look at the numbers, you would assume he has it all figured out, that he is pretty much NBA-ready. But if you watch him, he is not even close. He's still sort of confused about a lot of things out there. I mean that in a good way, because it is like he is doing all that he is doing on just his instincts and his natural ability.
Porzingis has plenty of his own rough edges to sand down, but his skills are already evident. His outside stroke is smooth and effortless, especially for a player of his size (7’3”). He shoots it with confidence from anywhere and at any moment, as he did on a near-game-winner against the Charlotte Hornets:
His overall percentages (42.7 percent from the field, 30.8 percent from three) are far from sparkling, though he’s upped the ante considerably since Veteran’s Day:
Kristaps Porzingis, Before and After Veteran's Day
Games Mins Pts FGA FG% 3P%
Before 8 23.7 11.8 10.9 37.9% 21.7%
After 6 29.3 15.2 11.7 48.6% 43.8%
Basketball Reference
"His shooting stroke is as pure as any big to come into the NBA ... as good as Dirk's,” Scott Roth, who worked with a young Dirk Nowitzki in 1999 and with Porzingis in Spain, told ESPN’s Marc Stein. “He also has no fear and, more importantly, he has no ego. This is just a great kid with a great work ethic and a real love of the game.”
The same could just as easily be said of Towns. He may not have the freedom to launch the nearly three threes per game that Porzingis does, but he’s actually outshooting his Knicks counterpart inside the arc:
Towns vs. Porzingis: Shooting Inside the Arc
0-3 Feet 3-10 Feet 10-16 Feet 16 Feet < 3
Towns 67.3% 44.7% 42.9% 50%
Porzingis 55.3% 40.6% 35% 50%
Basketball Reference
“We all know I can hit 3s,” he told ESPN’s Zach Lowe. “But for now, I’m taking what the defense gives me.”
The Details: Defense
Despite his wiry frame (7’3”, 240 pounds), Porzingis has done a decent job of locking down the paint. According to NBA.com, he has held opponents to 49.4 percent shooting at the rim, ahead of average across the Association (61.5 percent, per Basketball Reference).
Towns, though, has held his foes to a lower percentage at the rim (45.5 percent) while facing nearly twice as many attempts (10.3) as has Porzingis (5.9). It helps that he, at 7'0" and 250 pounds, has a stronger build to throw around.
Not that Towns isn’t susceptible to getting smacked by more experienced opponents. In his fourth game, Towns managed just six points on 3-of-13 shooting against Miami Heat center Hassan Whiteside.
His Timberwolves lost that game but have since bounced back to beat the Heat in Miami, courtesy of a 14-point, 14-rebound effort from Towns.
As it happens, Minnesota and New York have each given up 100.7 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com. Porzingis, though, has had a more dramatic effect on the Knicks’ defense than Towns has had on that of the T-Wolves:
Porzingis vs. Towns: Defensive Efficiency On/Off
Porzingis Towns
Defensive Efficiency ON 97.5 99.3
Defensive Efficiency OFF 104.4 103
Differential +6.9 +4.3
Basketball Reference
And if wins and losses count when considering these two, Porzingis' 8-6 Knicks come out ahead of Towns' 5-8 Timberwolves.
Pick Your Rookie
In some respects, Porzingis should be more of a game-changer than Towns right now and not just because he’s three-and-a-half months older. In basketball years, the gap is greater than that. While Porzingis was honing his game against seasoned pros in Spain, Towns was busy dominating teenagers at the high school and college levels.
In the bigger picture, Towns has had the better start, despite what all the hubbub in the Big Apple would suggest. While Porzingis' production has been a plus for a veteran Knicks squad, Towns might already be Minnesota's best player.
Who will have the better NBA career?
Porzingis Towns Submit Vote vote to see results
But the first four weeks of basketball won't likely define the careers of these two precocious talents. At some point, both will be tasked with taking leading roles in the renaissances of their respective franchises.
For now, they can focus on becoming the best ballplayers they can—and chasing the Eddie Gottlieb Trophy.
All stats are accurate as of games played on Nov. 22, 2015.
GetInTheTruck
Member
After every game we seem to be defending KP from @ZemaPromos. Is this some kind of joke?
@Knicksman20 Good drop.
I just finished reading before coming back onto the Coli & seeing your post. lol. Nice.
The fact that Porzingis is being mentioned in the conversation of ROY is just amazing. I remember before the season started, many people, including Knick fans, thought Jerian Grant would be the more probable Knick rookie to be in that conversation.
Barring injury, this breh is going to take us on a much deserved and beautiful ride.
I just finished reading before coming back onto the Coli & seeing your post. lol. Nice.
The fact that Porzingis is being mentioned in the conversation of ROY is just amazing. I remember before the season started, many people, including Knick fans, thought Jerian Grant would be the more probable Knick rookie to be in that conversation.
Barring injury, this breh is going to take us on a much deserved and beautiful ride.
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Knicksman20
Superstar
@Knicksman20 Good drop.
I just finished reading before coming back onto the Coli & seeing your post. lol. Nice.
The fact that Porzingis is being mentioned in the conversation of ROY is just amazing. I remember before the season started, many people, including Knick fans, thought Jerian Grant would be a the more probable Knick rookie to be in that conversation.
Barring injury, this breh is going to take us on a much deserved and beautiful ride.
You echo my thoughts about KP & Grant. It's a pleasant surprise KP was more ready to contribute than we all thought he was.
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Nah, but this is some kind of lie. Is it a joke that I have to defend 'Melo from you guys regularly? Must be. What's there to defend? He made 7 shots out of 18 tries (most of which were in garbage time) and NY got blown out. You worried about my true statements of his bad games, and that I won't jump on the bandwagon to throw 'Melo under the bus for him while there are fans that want him traded. I'm a fan of the sport first before any players or teams. The problem is, many won't tell the truth about him and are afraid to say anything negative about him. That's where the defensiveness comes in. If you're a fan of the sport, you're not gonna sit by while people say KP's 7-18 performance was brilliant and it's Fish's fault KP and the whole team shot like garbage. Sorry to break it to you, but KP isn't perfect, but he's obviously teflon.
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GhostoftheMan
Superstar
Kris could drop 35/15/11 blocks and zema would be like,
"he didn't feed Melo enough"
"he didn't feed Melo enough"
Can I just say that even though I'm happy that we look like we are back to being rivals with the Heat...
I absolutely LOVE Winslow's defense. He's in the perfect place with Wade and the way Spoelstra is maintaining an exceptional defense orientated team.
Absolutely beautiful.
I absolutely LOVE Winslow's defense. He's in the perfect place with Wade and the way Spoelstra is maintaining an exceptional defense orientated team.
Absolutely beautiful.
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Towns, by a landslide. He's better on both ends, by a landslide, and Towns is doing all that with no 'Melo to get him open looks. 2nd year Wiggins isn't 'Melo.
They're tryna force KP because he's a Euro. That's why they're giving him so many shots to pad his stats, so that even if he finishes the season shooting inefficiently, he'll still do numbers. That's why he was playing garbage minutes. I knew what was up when Wally was saying in the Houston post-game analysis that 'Melo didn't have a 2nd option until KP and that they need to give him a lot of shots, as if Arron hasn't been efficient all season and for most of his career, and as if KP hasn't been laying bricks all season. NY didn't even start winning until Arron got back. KP benefits from playing with Arron and 'Melo.
KP has potential, but he's no Towns. Not yet, anyway.
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Agreed.
However, if Porzingis plays consistently going forward (48.6% from the field since Veteran's day) & the Knicks make the Playoffs...
Porzingis for ROY. However, if the season ended today, definitely TOwns.
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
Imma stop coming in here after a L, shyt be getting crazy. Be having me like
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
I beg to differ. Towns shoots almost 52% from the field without a 'Melo and plays in the West with Pec always injured. He boards just as well as KP without a Rolo to box guys out. Players are shooting less than 38% against him, while players are shooting efficiently against KP (43.2% is average so far). Towns is holding his opponents to 8.8% below their average from the field, while KP is only holding his opponents to 2.7% under their average. He protects the rim better than KP (2.4 blks) and doesn't play with Rolo. He has a washed up KG. 90% from the line. If things keep up like this and Towns doesn't get it, he will have gotten robbed. Towns doesn't deserve for KP to be compared to him and overshadowing him in getting attention.