Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

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Victim of Racism

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Miggs said:
I thought you liked Hoezay...You need to acquire some better interior defenders than can defend 2 players at once...
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I haven't liked him in weeks and been wanted him gone because he won't shoot. I can still be objective enough not to blame all the poor defense on him when 6 other players are just as bad on that end. He's 1 of many to blame for NY's poor defense. Frankly, I'm concerned that if they don't clean up their defense, they will not make the playoffs because the 7 teams above them play defense. What's sad is that NY can mostly likely beat most of them in the playoffs because most of them can't score (Miami, Boston, Detroit, and Toronto). NY's reliance on their scoring abilities, keeps them from playing defense. That's tempting for all teams, but NY can't afford that. It's so unfair to 'Melo because he's out there doing every thing. He's scoring, defending, passing, setting screens, and rebounding, all at an elite level. He's doing everything for the team. He's trying to get them to the playoffs, but half the team won't guard. He doesn't deserve to miss the playoffs.

His dumb coach (yea, I'm mad at Fish now) out there saying "they competed, but they needed to get stops and rebounds down the stretch". No, they needed stops throughout the game. I understand if the personnel needs to change, but there's no excuse for a coach to support them not playing any defense, especially a coach who was an elite defender for most of his playing career. They need to be called out for it by the coach, and by the players who actually play defense on the team. I give a pass to KP (because he is a rook), O'quinn (because he tries, but is clueless), Jose (because he's old, has no athleticism whatsoever, and I really can't think of a pg who shot the ball well against him except Teague and Shroder, who also ran over Gallo and Grant), Derrick (because he tries and has improved his defense a little), and Sasha (because he's old, has no athleticism whatsoever, and doesn't play, so who cares) but Arron and Rolo get no passes.

Rolo needs to get a hand up and Arron needs to be consistent. Arron guards every now and then and that won't cut it. If those 2 step their defense, NY could secure a playoff spot, so I guess I'm blaming those 2. However, even if they don't fix these things, I still do not want them off the team, because they're invaluable to the team because of their scoring, boxing out (Rolo is the king of this in NY), rebounding, and passing (Arron made 54 passes last night, Jose led the team with 55). For all of Arron's trash shooting last night, he was a +4 in the game because of all the attention he draws, and he was clutch as usual. KP shot better than he did and was a -16. That doesn't mean bench KP. Even 'Melo has had bad +/- numbers at times, but if you bench him, you will certainly lose the game. I'm just trying to illustrate Arron's value, even when he's not making shots.
 
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ZemaPromos said:
I haven't liked him in weeks and been wanted him gone because he won't shoot. I can still be objective enough not to blame all the poor defense on him when 6 other players are just as bad on that end. He's 1 of many to blame for NY's poor defense. Frankly, I'm concerned that if they don't clean up their defense, they will not make the playoffs because the 7 teams above them play defense. What's sad is that NY can mostly likely beat most of them in the playoffs because most of them can't score (Miami, Boston, Detroit, and Toronto). NY's reliance on their scoring abilities, keeps them from playing defense. That's tempting for all teams, but NY can't afford that. It's so unfair to 'Melo because he's out there doing every thing. He's scoring, defending, passing, setting screens, and rebounding, all at an elite level. He's doing everything for the team. He's trying to get them to the playoffs, but half the team won't guard. He doesn't deserve to miss the playoffs.

His dumb coach (yea, I'm mad at Fish now) out there saying "they competed, but they needed to get stops and rebounds down the stretch". No, they needed stops throughout the game. I understand if the personnel needs to change, but there's no excuse for a coach to support them not playing any defense, especially a coach who was an elite defender for most of his playing career. They need to be called out for it by the coach, and by the players who actually play defense on the team. I give a pass to KP (because he is a rook), O'quinn (because he tries, but is clueless), Jose (because he's old, has no athleticism whatsoever, and I really can't think of a pg who shot the ball well against him except Teague and Shroeder, who also ran over Gallo and Grant), Derrick (because he tries and has improved his defense a little), and Sasha (because he's old, has no athleticism whatsoever, and doesn't play, so who cares) but Arron and Rolo get no passes.

Rolo needs to get a hand up and Arron needs to be consistent. Arron guards every now and then and that won't cut it. If those 2 step their defense, NY could secure a playoff spot, so I guess I'm blaming those 2. However, even if they don't fix these things, I still do not want them off the team, because they're invaluable to the team because of their scoring, boxing out (Rolo is the king of this in NY), rebounding, and passing (Arron made 54 passes last night, Jose led the team with 55). For all of Arron's trash shooting last night, he was a +4 in the game because of all the attention he draws, and he was clutch as usual. KP shot better than he did and was a -16. That doesn't mean bench KP. Even 'Melo has had bad +/- numbers at times, but if you bench him, you will certainly lose the game. I'm just trying to illustrate Arron's value, even when he's not making shots.
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:what:
3 of the 4 teams you said cant score average more per game than the Knicks (DET,TOR,BOS)
 
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storyteller said:
Short Version: There really shouldn't be moral victories for teams at this point in the season. Props to the effort and serious respect to the bench for the work it put in, but this team is close to a playoff berth and needs to close out games no matter the personnel. I respect that the coach got these guys to play so hard, but his decision making frustrated me as usual (even though I got his logic on everything he did). Now having noted my frustration points, it really was a good effort with a lot of nice team ball. A lot of players showed up and played well instead of shrinking in the face of two superstars going all out. The defense wasn't as bad as the numbers either imo; Payne, Durant, Westbrook and Waiters all knocked down a number of contested jumpers (especially from three) that kept them in pace to make it back and win the game. So yeah, this was promising, but frustrating.

KP: Ibaka and Adams did a really good job bodying the kid up and keeping him off balance. He still found ways to produce with a couple of blocks (the one on Westbrook was beautiful), 15 points (5-12 not terrible), 2 assists (the one to Galloway was beautiful) and 5 boards (could be better, but when he faces muscle this happens sometimes). KP picked up a couple of weak fouls early and he did a nice job avoiding that stuff later on. Defensively, he was a mixed bag. He did poorly on the boards (everyone did) and gave too much space to guys who can hit the jumper but he was still nice on interior contests (problem being the play isn't complete until you've secured the rebound). He flashed his potential though. He knocked down some jumpers, tried some post moves out and had some beautiful drives to the basket. The putback was awesome, lead pass to Galloway was brilliant and that block on Westbrook was sick.

Lance: He started off on fire but cooled considerably as the Thunder respected his threat more and more. Defensively he put up a commendable effort against a guy who can't be stopped and made a few nice plays throughout his time out there. He's always gonna have a couple of head scratching moments in a game, but he kept that to a minimum which was nice. When he's not forcing too much, he doesn't hurt us and he does a nice job of taking advantage when defenders sleep on him. 16 and 4 boards in 40 minutes, the caveat being that he put up a lot of numbers in the first half.

RoLo: Back to 20 minutes of RoLo and not surprisingly our interior defense suffered. He wasn't particularly good, against a fresh legged quality C he struggled. He's really managed to over rely on the hook shot as a go-to, launching it at times because he can't seem to get anything else. His defensive rebounding was weak (again everyone was bad here) but he did at least work the offensive glass well. 10, 6 in 22 minutes; I have an issue with the minutes but we'll get back to that.

Jose: So the adjustment for a hopelessly outmatched Calderon was to have our bigs float off their guys and be closer to Russ' driving lane...that was detrimental to everybody not named Jose, but at least he didn't give up any FG's in the first quarter -_-. Look, at the point where the only move to save Jose is to put your other defenders out of position...just bench him. Fish did that a lot in the second half so props there. Anyway, Jose tried earnestly on defense so I can't hate that and he had some nice moments creating offensively. I like him taking screens with the pull up jumper in mind because at least he's looking for his offense once or twice. He's also seemed to pick up Grant's in-out dribble to fake a defender into the screener before he takes the clear lane. This got him inside a couple of times where he made nice passes. 6 points and 6 assists in 20 minutes...this game ain't on him...but I think it does show he's a much more valuable player as a 20 minutes guy than a 30-35 minutes guy.

AA: 17 points on 21 attempts with just 2 assists...that is fairly horrific. To exacerbate everything, he struggled to defend Dion Waiters aka the guy everyone forgets in the Thunder starting line-up. This was just a bad one for him. I didn't think the looks he got were all bad, but the shot wasn't falling and he never made an active effort to create for others; which is where Melo has made his biggest shift...because if everyone knows you're gonna shoot, defending you is easy. AA is really looking streaky. He has these runs of exemplary play and then runs where he gets the same looks from the same spots but can't knock them down. When that happens, he can't afford to get cooked defensively and he needs to pass better. If I spent all season riding Lance for this issue, there's no way I'm gonna ignore AA showing similar traits.

Galloway: It's time to let him start and deal with the growing pains. We'll be a better team at the end of the season for it. He might not command an offense as well as Calderon (debatable though) but he defends better, is more athletic and can help us for years to come as opposed to being on the verge of retirement. Last night, Galloway flashed a really strong knowledge of the system and picked his spots incredibly well. On multiple occasions he pushed the pace which created easy baskets. 21 points, 3 assists, 5 boards and his rebounds lead to fast breaks. He made clutch plays late which are tarnished a bit by the missed FT but realistically we don't get into a position where that FT matters without him. Defensively, he wasn't great or anything but he didn't require an entire defensive shift.

D-Will: 19 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists...and he actually did a solid job defensively. He needs to work on his boxing out for sure, but everything else was on display here. He fought for boards and got plenty, he actually moved the ball and he knocked down jumpers from all over the floor (wish he could do that consistently). His drives were really nicely done. He's been providing more consistent offensive play than our go-to's since Melo and KP got hurt while AA just vanished in a cold streak. This guy's play has been high quality for a nice run of games.

Seraphin: At a point where Melo's out and we don't have many guys that can create their own looks, Seraphin actually sorta makes sense. When he's making a clear effort to challenge players at the rim on defense, he's probably earning the minutes I've been dying for KOQ to lock up. KS was 4-8 with 8 points coming off of nice post isolations. He had 4 boards in 16 minutes, I'd like to see more but that's not the worst. He did fall into black hole status though, not making many passes let alone creating for others which is a wrinkle that really helps the post up guys in the triangle.

Grant: Was aggressive and bordering on brilliant with the early barrage he threw out there, but like Lance he faded when the defense adjusted (it also didn't help that he was essentially just setting up post isolations in the second half). Defensively he was cheating the passing lanes a lot which had mixed results. He had a couple of nice steals but also gave up easy drives at times. 7,6 and 2 with that pair of steals to boot in 20 minutes. I thought he challenged Payne well, but that kid was hitting ridiculous shots (put it this way, if he misses half the challenged threes, people are laughing at him for jacking up shots with KD and Westbrook as teammates). He's been flashing his promise more and more thanks to a more aggressive approach and his vision is the best on the team bar none. He needs picks to be effective or to be allowed to play through his mistakes instead of getting benched if they want him to figure out the triangle. Really solid game.

KOQ: Got three minutes, knocked down a three which was cool but also had the ugliest isolation of the season. Still not moving well enough laterally on defense either.

Sasha: You may have missed this, but for no real reason Fisher snuck this dude onto the court with under a minute left and no hope to comeback...and he still managed a negative plus minus because he's Sasha Vujacic.

Fisher: Serious props for getting the team energized and playing motivated basketball in a situation where they easily could have folded. More props for seeing that Jose couldn't be adjusted for against the Thunder and letting Galloway/Grant/AA be a three man backcourt rotation for a big chunk of time. Then more props for trying to ride hot hands and trusting some bench guys in the fourth. But seeing the troops work this hard makes their lack of energy in the two prior losses look worse. Figuring out that Jose couldn't hold his own defensively magnifies why he shouldn't be starting in the first place. Riding the hot hands was great, until Fish switched it up and went with AA post isolations out of two TO's in crunch time. That last bit of decision making really bothered me, because AA was ice cold and the guys who'd brought us back were LG and KP. The high pick and roll utilizing KP is a weapon that I don't mind us not abusing too much, but in key moments when KP AND the ball handler have both earned those reps...they should be rewarded imo. I get it though, AA's been clutch and is our go-to sans Melo; but Melo asked the coach to incorporate KP late because he was getting gassed in all those isolations, why wouldn't AA struggle just the same? D-Will and Lance played really well, but both guys should have seen a few less minutes to get RoLo in there and stop so many offensive rebounds for the Thunder imo. You can cut both those guys minutes 3 each and RoLo is in there for 6 more minutes banging with the bigs. I think that would have helped during the fourth quarter offensive lull where we had a lead to protect. He was also ineffective out of TO's late, with one play falling apart and isolations happening too much. AA isolated the last two plays of regulation and the first play of OT...0 points. He's been in a tough place, no Melo makes every rotation difficult and Lance was one of three reliable bench players...but that doesn't excuse his struggles because they're too closely related with his mistakes throughout the season regardless of team health. This was a bad one from him in my book.

Random: Payne looks like he smells terrible. Durant sometimes flops like Raekwon pretending to get shot. Westbrook's game is really impressive from an athletic and hustle stance but I always find myself thinking his IQ and skillful play are both lagging a bit behind because his athleticism lets him get away with decisions other guys couldn't make.
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:salute:
 
Victim of Racism

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Miggs said:
:what:
3 of the 4 teams you said cant score average more per game than the Knicks (DET,TOR,BOS)
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That's because you're looking at season stats. NY struggled out the gate, but they're healthier now. Over the last 15 games, NY averages 1.3 more points than Detroit and on a far better fg%. Boston's fg% is trash. NY's is great. Toronto leads NY by less than 1 point. Again, all of this isn't season stats. It's stats from the last 15 games.
 
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ZemaPromos said:
That's because you're looking at season stats. NY struggled out the gate, but they're healthier now. Over the last 15 games, NY averages 1.3 more points than Detroit and on a far better fg%. Boston's fg% is trash. NY's is great. Toronto leads NY by less than 1 point. Again, all of this isn't season stats. It's stats from the last 15 games.
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Ur making the point that its defense is the issue which is fine,but 3 of the 4 teams are still better offensive teams than NY...so offense is also an issue in that argument...

I realize youd like to use 15 games to make an argument,the problem with that bae is the games before your arbitrary selected number still count in the standings...There was a 15 game stretch where Andrea Barn yawny was an all star calibre player in this league...
 
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Phil needs to do what he can to get Teague, obviously he fills a major need, but he also frees up the Knicks to go after another good player in the off season to help round out the roster, instead of potentially blowing most of the cap space on one PG this offseason. Also this team with Teague on it suddenly looks a lot more enticing to potential free agents.:banderas: This could be a major, major deal for the Knicks.
 
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It's True:

By Chris Vivlamore - The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Hawks President of Basketball Operations and head coach Mike Budenholzer said recently that no trade involving his team is imminent as the NBA deadline approaches next month.

Reports surfaced Wednesday that the Hawks, through rival executives, have listened to several offers for point guards Jeff Teague and Dennis Schroder. Yahoo Sports reported that Teague has been the focus of late. ESPN reported that the Knicks are one team to have discussions regarding Teague.

According to reports, the Hawks have listened to offers for starting point guard Jeff Teague. “I would say we continue to like our team and believe in the team,” Budenholzer told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “I don’t think we’ve been as consistent as we’d like. I think, collectively we haven’t and probably individually we haven’t. But I wouldn’t say anything is in line or imminent or anything like that at all.”

For the Hawks, Al Horford and Kent Bazemore will become unrestricted free agents at the end of the season. Teague is under contract through next season at cap-friendly $8 million per season. Schroder is under contract with a qualifying offer through 2017-18.

The NBA trade deadline is Feb. 18.

Atlanta Hawks say no trade imminent
 
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