Question on the Knicks-Raptors trade...

[DPresidential]

Not saying it was good or bad yet but 2 questions to those who think the Knicks got beat in the head on this...

1. Considering all the health issues Bargnani has had... if the Knicks would have kept Novak & Camby, while keeping in mind Woodson's rotations, would Novak and Camby contribute more? (While answering that, what were Novak and Camby's production levels this year... especially when it counted.)

2. If Bargnani was the issue and not the pieces the Knicks gave away... what conceivable trade can you think of with the same pieces(Novak, Camby & 3 picks)? What could the Knicks have gotten better than Bargnani, basically?

In a trade...somebody wins and somebody loses... After answering those questions... who loses?

 

[No..Money..Mo..Problems]

Knicks lost. Raptors got rid of a lazy jump shooting no defense playing bum and received a 2016 first rounder that will probably be a lottery pick when the Knicks start to suck again. This isn't NBA 2k13, a Melo, JR and Bargnani lineup would give up 110 ppg.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Knicks lost. Raptors got rid of a lazy jump shooting no defense playing bum and received a 2016 first rounder that will probably be a lottery pick when the Knicks start to suck again. This isn't NBA 2k13, a Melo, JR and Bargnani lineup would give up 110 ppg.

Denver owns the right to swap the 2016 pick with the knicks...so basically if the knicks suck, Denver will swap picks with the knicks, and TO will get Denver's pick. If Denver is worse, then they wont swap, and TO will get our pick. Bottom line is the odds on Toronto receiving a pick of significance is slim, because both Den and NY would have to suck.

Also, I think the no account, leaderless, losing environment in Toronto was a contributing factor in Bargs sluggish play. Hes now going to play in a winning environment, an accountable locker room, a take no sht coach, and a great scorer who will keep the defense's attention trained on him, giving Bargs better looks and mobility. Bargs will be an improved player.

 

[No..Money..Mo..Problems]

Denver owns the right to swap the 2016 pick with the knicks...so basically if the knicks suck, Denver will swap picks with the knicks, and TO will get Denver's pick. If Denver is worse, then they wont swap, and TO will get our pick. Bottom line is the odds on Toronto receiving a pick of significance is slim, because both Den and NY would have to suck.

Also, I think the no account, leaderless, losing environment in Toronto was a contributing factor in Bargs sluggish play. Hes now going to play in a winning environment, an accountable locker room, a take no sht coach, and a great scorer who will keep the defense's attention trained on him, giving Bargs better looks and mobility. Bargs will be an improved player.

You gotta factor in his remaining two years 23 mil contract. Bargnani has always been soft and lazy and I highly doubt going to New York is going to change that. Knicks already have a useless PF (amare) killing there cap space, signing another one is dumb. Knicks could of used that money to fill other needs.

 

[Constellations]

Not saying it was good or bad yet but 2 questions to those who think the Knicks got beat in the head on this...

1. Considering all the health issues Bargnani has had... if the Knicks would have kept Novak & Camby, while keeping in mind Woodson's rotations, would Novak and Camby contribute more? (While answering that, what were Novak and Camby's production levels this year... especially when it counted.)

2. If Bargnani was the issue and not the pieces the Knicks gave away... what conceivable trade can you think of with the same pieces(Novak, Camby & 3 picks)? What could the Knicks have gotten better than Bargnani, basically?

In a trade...somebody wins and somebody loses... After answering those questions... who loses?

The right question is more like "Could the Knicks have gotten Bargnani for less? Even a lot less?"

Knicks somehow got fooled into thinking that they didnt have the leverage in this trade. Ujiri needed to get this contract off his books badly. Bargnani was dead weight with a burdensome contract, and I highly doubt any other team was trying to get at him in a hurry, and for some reason the Knicks felt he was worth 3 draft picks. Like do you think Ujiri woulda said no to just Novak, Camby, and one 1st rounder? Probably not.

That makes it a bad trade.

But its an AWFUL trade because the Knicks have absolutely no use for a one dimensional player who isnt even good at the one thing he does do. His offense just does not justify his lazy defense and ridiculous contract. Paying Amare and this bum 30+ mil over the next two years is inconceivable.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

You gotta factor in his remaining two years 23 mil contract. Bargnani has always been soft and lazy and I highly doubt going to New York is going to change that. Knicks already have a useless PF (amare) killing there cap space, signing another one is dumb. Knicks could of used that money to fill other needs.

Amare, Barg, Melo & Tyson contracts all come off the books at the same time at the end of the 2014/2015 season. And we all know how valuable expiring contracts are.

 

[Hammer]

Amare, Barg, Melo & Tyson contracts all come off the books at the same time at the end of the 2014/2015 season. And we all know how valuable expiring contracts are.

knicks going to get lebron?

 

[Greenhornet]

i think its a win win


novak aint bringing shyt to the table and the time is now for the knicks

 

[No..Money..Mo..Problems]

Amare, Barg, Melo & Tyson contracts all come off the books at the same time at the end of the 2014/2015 season. And we all know how valuable expiring contracts are.

bargnani has 2 yrs and 23 mil left
camby's has 2 yrs 8 mil left
novak has 3 yrs 10 mil left

so what was the purpose of giving up 3 draft picks for bargnani when he would cost 5 mil more and give you the same production as novak while missing the same amount of games as camby.

 

[llt23]

I dunno if you were watching but Novak wasnt playing in the playoffs and became a nonfactor by midseason when teams just stuck a guy right on him. And also that 4 milli or so Novak is owed that final year is huge when you're trying to sign multiple big names.

And the cost of bargnani is irrelevant. The knicks have been over the cap and would have been regardless. Now they will have more flexibility long-term and possibly a player who could contribute on a much higher level than Novak ever did.

 

[phillycavsfan]

i think its a win win


novak aint bringing shyt to the table and the time is now for the knicks

The time is always now with the Knicks. That's part of their problem.

 

[Richard Wright]

Camby seemed done, Novak seemed done. Bargani's 11 mil is off the books in two years. Did you guys get spoiled by actually having a draft pick this year?

 

[Wargames]

Knicks lost. Raptors got rid of a lazy jump shooting no defense playing bum and received a 2016 first rounder that will probably be a lottery pick when the Knicks start to suck again. This isn't NBA 2k13, a Melo, JR and Bargnani lineup would give up 110 ppg.

Actually your wrong Denver had the swap rights to that pick meaning that if the Knicks sucked that year they wouldn't have got that pick anyhow. If anything its going to be a later pick between NY or Denver. Either of those teams do well and that pick is in the 20-30 range.

On the flip come 2015 Knicks have enough money come off the books they can resign Melo to a max and still pick up 2 other Max FA's.

 

[Richard Wright]

Actually your wrong Denver had the swap rights to that pick meaning that if the Knicks sucked that year they wouldn't have got that pick anyhow. If anything its going to be a later pick between NY or Denver. Either of those teams do well and that pick is in the 20-30 range.

On the flip come 2015 Knicks have enough money come off the books they can resign Melo to a max and still pick up 2 other Max FA's.

You guys are having the same problem I had before we got STAT and Melo. You forget the Knicks are the best destination in the nba. You forget were a big market team even. I blame zeke.

 

[Wargames]

You guys are having the same problem I had before we got STAT and Melo. You forget the Knicks are the best destination in the nba. You forget were a big market team even. I blame zeke.

Here is a list of that years better free agents. (Some of these guys is based on projected potential imho)

Roy Hibbert
Kevin love
Lamarcus Alderidge
Marc Gasol
Kyrie Irving (RFA)
Tony Parker
Rondo
Kwahi Leonard (RFA)
Klay thompson
Enes Kanter (RFA)
Vucevic (RFA)
Chandler Parsons (RFA)

Keep in mind the Knicks could also sign 3 of these guys to 12-15 a year deals and unlike 2010 free agency Knicks should have a core playoff team that will have feature Melo so the knicks will be a stronger destination overall