Question Regarding "Free Will" Conundrum.

[Claudex]

Its so weird hearing non academic philosophical discussions about the bible because ppl always unintentionally slip into gnostic Christian concepts. Concepts that challenge the core of Christian beliefs, I spot two already in this thread

That shyt would've got you burnt at the stake in a post 500 AD world. Early Medieval Christians did their very best to snuff any and all them gnostic sects. So much lost knowledge.

Have I sinned breh?

 

[Hathaway]

much lost knowledge.

Is it really lost though? The Vatican archives, I believe, has pillaged a great number of the worlds lost treasures and information. May even rival the Library of Alexandria.

 

[invalid]

First, I have an answer for each one of your points. But before I get into it, you have to answer this question I've asked of you before.

You said you were a minister for eight years, did you go to seminary or divinity school?

I asked this question of you because your questions are not questions someone with divinity school + eight years of ministry under their belt would be asking.

It would make sense if you left Christianity after you attended seminary. Actually, that's quite normal. I know many people that have, including my aunt's ex. Many students, especially those who come from evangelical/fundamentalist backgrounds, get to seminary and really learn the complexities of the faith, the things that are not digestible to the masses, and the grey areas, which contradicts what these Christian fundamentalist were taught about the Bible - literal word of God, infallible, simple, no contradictions. This is where questions like yours are addressed using thousands of years of Christian philosophical thought that had been dedicated to addressing questions like this and other complexities of life.

It's typically those who are able to work through these issues they may have and find *sufficient* answers that go on to graduate and enter into ministry.

So to be 8+ years in ministry and still stuck here means 1) you didn't get proper ministerial training, which means 2) you probably belong to a church that's not structured (which are most evangelical non-mainline churches), which means 3) if your church had no structure, the other leaders of your church had not the proper training, which means 4) they did not have the capacity or the well of knowledge to address your issues.

All of the early church fathers have commentary on these issues that I find *sufficient*. And over a thousand years, Christian philosophers have built upon their foundation to sift though a number of contemporary moral issues that we are dealing with today. If you are an evangelical protestant, who adheres to "sola scripture" then most likely you would not have been exposed to this long tradition of Christian philosophical thought (with the exception of attending divinity school) because it falls under "tradition" and protestants squirm at that. But It's unfortunate because you miss a lot of context for the "who/what/when/where/whys".

It's like how can you say you know what it is to be black and not understand the history and traditions of our culture?

 

[boriquaking]

It’s all horseshyt

 

[Cakebatter]

Calvinist and some other denominations don't even believe in Free-Will, but Predestination. So someone from a Christian Reformed Church would just quote the following:
Romans 8:29, "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
Ephesians 1:5&11, "he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— ", "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, "

 

[Hathaway]

You said you were a minister for eight years, did you go to seminary or divinity school?

No, I did not. I was taught under various Bishops, Elders and Apostles. As is common place in southern Pentecostal ministries, a large majority do not attend formal institutions of theological study.

 

[invalid]

No, I did not. I was taught under various Bishops, Elders and Apostles. As is common place in southern Pentecostal ministries, a large majority do not attend formal institutions of theological study.

Makes sense.
I'll address your questions later.

 

[Lurk_skward]

My theory is that we are already in hell.
We were sent from heaven to earth to experience the lack of God and die.
Hell is a state where creatures are separated from the creator and die.
Which is why we suffer because God is separated from us.

I think our goal in life is to connect with God. There are many paths to God, you have to find which path works for you.

 

[Who Not How]

What led you to become a backslider OP?

 

[Hathaway]

What led you to become a backslider OP?

Put plainly, the historicity of scripture. In the time following my departure from the faith. I addicted myself to theological studies/books from some of the most respected minds of our time : Bart D. Ehrman, Amy Jill Levine, Dawkins, Elaine Pagels, Hitchens, etc.

In the last 2 years, I've amassed and read exactly 13 books and am currently reading Bart Ehrmans new book released last month.

My issue started with scriptural interpretation but when it started to affect my own personal walk and life, I sought answers elsewhere. When my faith was compromised, I called on the name of the Lord for many months and my calls went unheeded.

I immersed myself in the forbidden knowledge. The things that regular church goers stay away from: Contemporary books and research of the last 2 millenia regarding Jesus and the Bible. The writings of the ancients. The more I read, the more I learned that none of this is real. And all it took was an unbiased approach to the evidence.