Questlove defends Vol 1, Jay-Z responds

[DANJ!]

Eh, I've seen anecdotal evidence of NY cats hyping up Jay-Z as the hidden gem that had next after Biggie died and then having egg on their face when the Sunshine video came out and everyone else was like "So this is your new Biggie huh "

RD wasn't a commercial smash but it had the streets - if it didn't resonate Jay wouldn't have been able to parlay that album into a Def Jam partnership.

It's weird yall hold Reasonable Doubt to this weird "Nobody was checking for it" standard when it went Gold in a few months and had the same traction as other celebrated NY albums like The Infamous. It seems to be an overcorrection of its retroactive classic status.

This... nobody ever has this same energy about Illmatic's initial numbers, or The Infamous, or anybody else that "only went Gold" back then... they definitely don't go back and bring up 2Pacalypse Now... they definitely don't apply this to artists who weren't even going gold but made great music... they really only get adamant and insistent on pointing out that Jay-Z wasn't an instant superstar with his 1st album, even tho' it went gold in 3 months and had two radio hits... and definitely was heralded as a great album in real time. Its reputation increased over time, sure, but very often people tend to equate what they and their friends liked to what EVERYBODY liked, which is honestly impossible to do. There was all types of audiences for different shyt by '96- the same thing people say about RD, they could just as easily say about a lotta albums. Texas probably wasn't bumpin' Reasonable Doubt, just like NY probably wasn't bumpin' Ridin' Dirty, just like Cali probably wasn't playin' Stakes Is High, just like Philly probably wasn't heavy into E-40's shyt... but all that stuff had its own place in the landscape. A lot of nikkas just weren't "there"... mighta been alive... but they weren't "there".

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

This... nobody ever has this same energy about Illmatic's initial numbers, or The Infamous, or anybody else that "only went Gold" back then... they definitely don't go back and bring up 2Pacalypse Now... they definitely don't apply this to artists who weren't even going gold but made great music... they really only get adamant and insistent on pointing out that Jay-Z wasn't an instant superstar with his 1st album, even tho' it went gold in 3 months and had two radio hits... and definitely was heralded as a great album in real time. Its reputation increased over time, sure, but very often people tend to equate what they and their friends liked to what EVERYBODY liked, which is honestly impossible to do. There was all types of audiences for different shyt by '96- the same thing people say about RD, they could just as easily say about a lotta albums. Texas probably wasn't bumpin' Reasonable Doubt, just like NY probably wasn't bumpin' Ridin' Dirty, just like Cali probably wasn't playin' Stakes Is High, just like Philly probably wasn't heavy into E-40's shyt... but all that stuff had its own place in the landscape. A lot of nikkas just weren't "there"... mighta been alive... but they weren't "there".

I'm happy I'm not from NY, Cali, or any of those places you named. We literally listened to everything in my area/state.. If it was on Rap city , Pump it up or YO and sounded good, we didn't give a fuk if you were from Antarctica. Music is music..

 

[Waterproof]

And it starts

I seen this shyt with Reasonable Doubt when Jay Z said it was a classic for damn near a year then all of sudden everyone start calling it a classic

Now here we go with this shyt

 

[DANJ!]

I'm happy I'm not from NY, Cali, or any of those places you named. We literally listened to everything in my area/state.. If it was on Rap city , Pump it up or YO and sounded good, we didn't give a fuk if you were from Antarctica. Music is music..

Likewise... I'm from Baltimore and there was a lot of different shyt that got bumped here... my point was that a lot of the time people tend to think their specific area wasn't bumpin' something, so NObody was. And that's extremely hard to gauge unless MFs traveling all over the country polling people. Some nikkas were barely even leavin' the porch but talkin' about what "nikkas wasn't bumpin'"

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

And it starts

I seen this shyt with Reasonable Doubt when Jay Z said it was a classic for damn near a year then all of sudden everyone start calling it a classic

Now here we go with this shyt

When Reasonable Doubt dropped, that whole summer of 96 the focus was on Nas and Outkast 2nd albums, Foxy's upcoming album, shyt even Pudgee's album King of New York had more buzz than Reasonable Doubt. When I heard RD, I knew that mf was special. That whole summer I kept telling one of my female cousins, about Jay Z. She said, "why are you always talking about Jay Z?", I tried to tell them about dude. I could only hear his music on college radio. Also that summer, he did that remix with Shai(I still have the 12") and then RD dropped. The source gave it 4 mics and a shytty review. I'm thinking that no way we heard the same album because that mf was fire!!!!. It was the issue with Nas on the cover. IWW also got 4 mics in the same issue. RD is a damn near a flawless album, but great hip hop is not what sells. It's crazy that Jay's 2 best albums are only 1 and 2 million in sales? I personally don't listen to him anymore like that. After BP2, I kinda left him alone.. Not saying he hasn't put out dope projects since then, but it's just not my cup of tea..

 

[Cladyclad]

When Reasonable Doubt dropped, that whole summer of 96 the focus was on Nas and Outkast 2nd albums, Foxy's upcoming album, shyt even Pudgee's album King of New York had more buzz than Reasonable Doubt. When I heard RD, I knew that mf was special. That whole summer I kept telling one of my female cousins, about Jay Z. She said, "why are you always talking about Jay Z?", I tried to tell them about dude. I could only hear his music on college radio. Also that summer, he did that remix with Shai(I still have the 12") and then RD dropped. The source gave it 4 mics and a shytty review. I'm thinking that no way we heard the same album because that mf was fire!!!!. It was the issue with Nas on the cover. IWW also got 4 mics in the same issue. RD is a damn near a flawless album, but great hip hop is not what sells. It's crazy that Jay's 2 best albums are only 1 and 2 million in sales? I personally don't listen to him anymore like that. After BP2, I kinda left him alone.. Not saying he hasn't put out dope projects since then, but it's just not my cup of tea..

The album went gold in 4 months. I will never understand how people say the album was overlooked. It probably wasn’t even 10 albums released in 96 to gold that same year. At the time no new artist came out the gate selling gangbusters. Jay z is like the only person penalized for not selling 300k first week.

RTD 57k- 7 months to go gold
Illmatic 60k- almost 2 years to go gold
RD 43k-4 months to go gold
2pac ??? 4 years to go gold


It wasn’t like it was a billion rappers like now. If u were into hiphop u knew jay had a album out

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

The album went gold in 4 months. I will never understand how people say the album was overlooked. It probably wasn’t even 10 albums released in 96 to gold that same year. At the time no new artist came out the gate selling gangbusters. Jay z is like the only person penalized for not selling 300k first week.

RTD 57k- 7 months to go gold
Illmatic 60k- almost 2 years to go gold
RD 43k-4 months to go gold
2pac ??? 4 years to go gold


It wasn’t like it was a billion rappers like now. If u were into hiphop u jay had a album out

it went gold off the strenght of the Foxy brown assisted single. I remember Jay having to take Foxy to BET just to get an interview with Donnie Simpson. Foxy was hot at that time just based on her "I shot ya" verse and "aint no nikka" really blew her up. Yes the album went gold, but it was still overlooked. Skee lo's album went gold quickly the previous year based on "I wish", but I can almost guarantee you the average fan can't tell you another song off the album. And Skee lo could rap like a mf. RD was definitely overlooked. It was taken off of the shelves until 1999. The original pressing went out of print by early 1998 (a year and a half later) and after the success of Vol 2 and Streets is watching Soundtrack, Def Jam reissued it. Initially it was on Freeze/Rocafella. The original album had no Def Jam imprint on it whatsoever. The "aint no nikka " single was on the Def Jam Nutty Professor soundtrack. Yeah, it was out of print and no one seemed to care. I personally still have the original RD with the gun on the cd.

 

[ThirdAct]

Because I'm annoyed by the Jay/Nas forever war I'm going to switch jerseys for one moment and potentially spark a bomb. Does Vol 1...an album most of us with taste argue is mid/mixed...have more classic tracks than any Nas album outside Illmatic and IWW?

I'm labeling "classic" tracks as the following: enduring hits, enduring relevant tracks (quotables, songs that became staples of live performances, etc), tracks that stood the test of time basically. Consider the following:

-Million And One Questions (classic intro, classic Premo track)
-Imaginary Player (multiple classic quotables, live performance staple)
-Streets Is Watching (classic street single, classic movie)
-Where I'm From (classic beat, created/acknowledged the "Biggie, Jay-Z, and Nas" GOAT triumvirate)

Illmatic is obvious, virtually every track is classic outside of maybe One Time 4 Your Mind. IWW you have The Message, Street Dreams, I Gave You Power, Affirmative Action and If I Ruled The world. Outside of that?

Stillmatic is probably the biggest one after Illmatic and IWW. Stillmatic Intro, Ether, You're Da Man, Rewind, One Mic, 2nd Childhood all fit under the category.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Because I'm annoyed by the Jay/Nas forever war I'm going to switch jerseys for one moment and potentially spark a bomb. Does Vol 1...an album most of us with taste argue is mid/mixed...have more classic tracks than any Nas album outside Illmatic and IWW?

I'm labeling "classic" tracks as the following: enduring hits, enduring relevant tracks (quotables, songs that became staples of live performances, etc), tracks that stood the test of time basically. Consider the following:

-Million And One Questions (classic intro, classic Premo track)
-Imaginary Player (multiple classic quotables, live performance staple)
-Streets Is Watching (classic street single, classic movie)
-Where I'm From (classic beat, created/acknowledged the "Biggie, Jay-Z, and Nas" GOAT triumvirate)

Illmatic is obvious, virtually every track is classic outside of maybe One Time 4 Your Mind. IWW you have The Message, Street Dreams, I Gave You Power, Affirmative Action and If I Ruled The world. Outside of that?

What do you mean "outside of that???" hahhaa. "live nikka rap", "black girl lost", "the set up", "take it in blood". Take it in blood is one of the top 5 best songs on the album. I hope you're not implying IWW only had 5 hot songs. cmon now. That's ridiculous.

 

[DANJ!]

When Reasonable Doubt dropped, that whole summer of 96 the focus was on Nas and Outkast 2nd albums, Foxy's upcoming album, shyt even Pudgee's album King of New York had more buzz than Reasonable Doubt. When I heard RD, I knew that mf was special. That whole summer I kept telling one of my female cousins, about Jay Z. She said, "why are you always talking about Jay Z?", I tried to tell them about dude. I could only hear his music on college radio. Also that summer, he did that remix with Shai(I still have the 12") and then RD dropped. The source gave it 4 mics and a shytty review. I'm thinking that no way we heard the same album because that mf was fire!!!!. It was the issue with Nas on the cover. IWW also got 4 mics in the same issue. RD is a damn near a flawless album, but great hip hop is not what sells. It's crazy that Jay's 2 best albums are only 1 and 2 million in sales? I personally don't listen to him anymore like that. After BP2, I kinda left him alone.. Not saying he hasn't put out dope projects since then, but it's just not my cup of tea..

Slow down... where did this happen? I ain't sayin' this wasn't the case somewhere, I just REALLY wanna know where

 

[mikishere]

Y'all really think lucky me is trash? At least lil wayne fukks with it, he got the lyrics to the song tatted on him..

jay's most underrated song EVER...

 

[Metal Face]

Illmatic is obvious, virtually every track is classic outside of maybe One Time 4 Your Mind. IWW you have The Message, Street Dreams, I Gave You Power, Affirmative Action and If I Ruled The world.

One Time is classic
and how you not gonna put Take It In Blood (Metro sampled it on Savage Mode 2) & Live nikka Rap

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Slow down... where did this happen? I ain't sayin' this wasn't the case somewhere, I just REALLY wanna know where

at least in my area and what I was seeing on tv at the national level. . They were playing him on college radio just as much if not more than Jay Z and rap city gave him his own episode to premier the "money don't make the world stop" video. Then like a week later, he was on Ricki Lake lol. It was shelved and never dropped. Let's not forget, Jay Z didn't have Def Jam behind him on the first album. That was Freeze.Records. Pudgee had Perspective with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis behind him. Especially coming off of that Solo "heaven" remix. They were trying to make him into a star. Plus you had Heltah Skeltah buzzing that whole summer coming off of the "leflaur...." and "blah" singles going into "operation lockdown"(they also got their own episode). Operation Lockdown was so popular, they shot 2 videos with one of them in a day care that most people have forgot about lol. Jay Z was definitely buzzing and making a name for himself, but if you weren't a true hip hop head and knew him form Jaz, Kane, Mic Geronimo albums, many weren't checking for him like that.

 

[ajnapoleon]

It's a damn shame


Someone like Jay got to where he is now


Had a debut album where we got tricked into believing it was classic

A bad 2nd album

Got lucky with a 3rd off a Annie sample

Bad roll out with the 3rd stabbed someone


Bad forth

Was lucky to be saved by the Golden calf Kanye....it was all Dame


In fact I heard Kanye not only saved Jay it was Kanye that signed Jay......

He was begging


Beyonce had pitty on such a ugly can't rhyme fake drug dealer married him


Now he have a little money



What was the rest of the rap game doing while he was getting to these heights




Was they not paying attention



I blame them

 

[Piff Perkins]

What do you mean "outside of that???" hahhaa. "live nikka rap", "black girl lost", "the set up", "take it in blood". Take it in blood is one of the top 5 best songs on the album. I hope you're not implying IWW only had 5 hot songs. cmon now. That's ridiculous.

I’m not counting those as classic tracks that fit my criteria. They’re dope album cuts. that doesn’t make them classic or songs that transcend eras, stand out immediately in the minds of general (ie not stans) 90s rap fans, they didn’t become staples of Nas’ live sets etc.