Random NBA Observations 2016 - 2017
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Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
It's not fool proof and one should never completely rule it down to one player. However, you can get an outline of an offensive anchor's impact (which Kidd was - averaging 36-38 minutes during his prime) by using team ORTG, just like you can with a defensive anchor and team DRTG. He controls the offense; he controls when and how the offense scores points; he controls how much defensive attention he attracts by being a threat to score; he controls how efficient the offense is, more than any other player.
Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, he had more influence on the ORTG than any other player on his team. As most main ball-handlers do.
Talent/abilities of teammates most definitely must be taken into account, but there's a few problems with this:
I. He is supposed to be this generational all-time great PG who made players betters, and who could run great offenses. Now if this were to be true, the offenses he led wouldn't have been average to downright horrible. He couldn't even lead a top-10 offense during his time in NJ. Now how is this all-time great PG who's known for his ability to run fluid and efficent offenses, not able to run even a good offense (let alone great) during one of the worst periods of basketball, not just in the modern era, but in history?
II. Other main-ballhandlers in the league had equal or worse supporting casts yet still manged to run better offenses than Kidd did
III. The early-to-mid '00s was filled with low-offensive talent (especially in the EC) - it wasn't like Kidd was competing against a bunch of offenses with the talent of the '16/'17 Warriors. By and large, most of the teams had talent within a stone's throw of each other.
So you can miss me with this what "top level talent did Kidd ever play with" nonsense. If you wanna use that excuse, than you have to take him down from this pedestal you've placed him on. You can't have it both ways.
They won pure and simply through their defense (which Kidd most definitely had an impact on) - not their offense. They had one of the best defenses all throughout Kidd's main years in NJ - #1 defense in '02, #1 defense in '03, #4 defense in '04, #7 defense in '05 - it's certainly no coincidence that as the defense deteriorated, their team record did too. Simply because the offense was NEVER the foundation of their success, it was ALWAYS their defense. I've already mentioned this to you in the past.
How can you ignore how great his defenses were, yet blindly try to attribute his teams' success to how great he was at running an offense? It's revisionism and a complete cover up of the facts.
First of all, this is completely untrue (I'd like to know where you're getting this from), and second of all if it were true what does this have to do with argument itself? You're not presenting any line which shows their impact on the games - peak v peak, but you're referencing some false claim of something that has little-to-no relevance as to whom the better player is. And have you forgotten how Kidd was partly responsible for Scott getting fired in 2004?
The biggest mark against him is that he was never a dominant, efficent offensive player (I being one of his main critics) - he's put that to rest over the last two seasons.
You can't be serious with this.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
I don't see how anyone could EVER try to prop up Kidd by saying imagine just how great he'd be [on offense] in today's league. A complete lack of awareness of Kidd's ability and who he was as a player.
LV Koopa
Jester from Hell
Or the situation in Dallas
Funny how I missed that part. He called Lowry for pissing off teammates (when?) but Kidd was known as a coach killer and organizational problem child.
Now KG isn't 7 feet tall
A man who referred to himself as 6 foot 12 to avoid being called a 7 footer, isn't 7 feet tall
Reggie Jackson got traded 2 seasons ago. Russ still holding that grudge and popping shyt every time he gets a chance. People want it to be one way, but it's the other way with dude. Russ gonna be beefing with KD until he dies.
Westbrook and KD hated him before he got traded. There was a lockerroom before those 2 and Lamb/PJ3/Jackson who all thought those 2 were holding them back.
They were all wrong.
He Who Posts Well
Veteran
Love the way Russ handled this.
Now KG isn't 7 feet tall
A man who referred to himself as 6 foot 12 to avoid being called a 7 footer, isn't 7 feet tall
shyt wasn't KG like 7'1 I think he is the one who started that trend of players not wanting to be called 7 footers.
Now KG isn't 7 feet tall
A man who referred to himself as 6 foot 12 to avoid being called a 7 footer, isn't 7 feet tall
IF KG IS 7 FEET TALL, SHAQ MUST BE 7'3"......FACE IT, KG IS 6'11. PLAYERS USUALLY EXAGGERATE THEIR HEIGHT BY 1-2 INCHES. KG HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, BUT HE WAS LISTED AT HIS REAL HEIGHT. EMBIID IS 7 FEET TALL. HIS HAIR ADDS 2 INCHES.
IF KG IS 7 FEET TALL, SHAQ MUST BE 7'3"......FACE IT, KG IS 6'11. PLAYERS USUALLY EXAGGERATE THEIR HEIGHT BY 1-2 INCHES. KG HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, BUT HE WAS LISTED AT HIS REAL HEIGHT. EMBIID IS 7 FEET TALL. HIS HAIR ADDS 2 INCHES.
Shaq was just under 7'2" in shoes and here they are shoulder to shoulder, not with one in the foreground since you don't understand how one person being closer to the camera than the other (Shaq IN FRONT of KG) can effect scale.
You don't seem to be up on this, but Draftexpress.com gets official heights from the combine.......
Shaq was just under 7'2" in shoes.
You don't seem to be up on this, but Draftexpress.com gets official heights from the combine.......
YOU DONT SAY......
I WOULDNT WORRY ABOUT EMBIID'S HEIGHT RIGHT NOW IF I WERE U. WORRY ABOUT WHETHER HE'S THE NEXT GREG ODEN OR NOT.. IF I WAS A FAN, I WOULD SACRAFICE 3 OF HIS INCHES IN RETURN FOR PROMISED HEALTH.
Fixed that, what you're dancing around
HERE U GO BUDDY
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