Read this 1961 C.I.A. internal report on Pan Africanism

get these nets

Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
58,334
Reputation
16,156
Daps
213,624
Reppin
Above the fray.
It didn't really click for me until I heard a Zimbabwean pundit note that despite every single nation citing corruption and bad leaders as their problem, the minute these same Nigerian or Zimbabwean or a ghanian leaders get planted into a high trust society like germany or even the gulf , they magically stop being corrupt because they absorb the local cultural norms.

There are checks and balances built into political systems in Western countries.
Corruption still occurs, but eventually the bad actor is held accountable.

In developing countries, there are sham checks and balances, and little accountabilty.
People arent absorbing norms as much as recognizing that the risk/reward for corruption is different in developing vs developed countries.
 

Chrishaune

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
39,228
Reputation
2,672
Daps
95,112
Reppin
Huntsville
Corruption still occurs, but eventually the bad actor is held accountable.

No, they get airports named after them.....

The level of mind control Western governments have over the population is crazy.

There's people who helped the Nazis that are celebrated in these countries.

But because the West controls the financial system for the most part in recent history, people think everything done by Western governments is great. They really are about doing anything they have to do to keep that power and control over people.

If a man is telling you that he's good, don't believe him.
If a man is telling you he's not good and faulty, believe him.
 

WIA20XX

Superstar
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
9,661
Reputation
4,386
Daps
29,908
The only reason it took the Europeans hundreds of years to get where they are is because there was no example. They had to engineer the wheel from nothing. As an analogy It's the difference between henry ford working out the bugs on the world's first assembly line and Tata motors or Hyundai copying ford's notes to build their own.

I will have to disrespectfully disagree.

There's a lot to the idea that we can just "Copy and Paste" Democracy.
  • Free and Fair elections
  • Mandatory voting
  • Ranked choice voting
  • Multiple Parties
  • Freedom of the Press
Except for the fact that they(the US, the West) keep doing it and it keeps failing. (See the rise of right wing populism all over the "civilized" nations)

It fails when the West tries to impose it. (Afghanistan)
It fails when it springs up naturally (aka the Arab Spring)

Even in places where it supposedly took root - Mexico (PRI) and Japan (LDP) - you're really looking at one party rule for DECADES.

On the continent, for Ibrahim and the rest, the people with the guns have to agree to put the guns down.

The people in charge can't censor the news, kill journalists, or "turn off the internet"

Why would any of the current regimes voluntarily give up power? Especially if they, and their close friends and associates are paid?

That was the problem in Europe for centuries.

Why would any of the monarchs willingly give up power?

It's the same issue with the dictators...

The thing itself (democracy) is relatively straight forward - but getting there will be sweat, tears, and lots of blood.

Black nations have had dozens of examples, so I don't believe black people should accept the excuse of taking hundreds of years to develop. And while we most certainly had it bad, we're not the only people on Earth to have had it bad. As we speak, we are slowly watching the Vietnamese and the Malaysians develop and the French and British were horrible to them. I mean for God's sake Vietnam was bombed out without a single school or factory after fighting france, America, and China in quick succession. And they faced slavery, colonization, and cultural erasure from france. Yet Vietnamese are already lapping most of Africa.

I have to iterate what I mean by development.

There's economic development.
And there's political development.

There needs to be some semblance of law and order (political development) to build economic development.

In the case of China and Vietnam - the law and order was with the communist party. And both of those countries paid HEAVILY to build that law and order.

Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos = all neighbors of these two - have tried and failed. They're definitely repressing their people - but they can't develop their economies.

Economic growth is basically a tricky thing

I do in fact believe that Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania, Ethiopia, and South Africa can grow the same way.
And they may even do it by adopting liberal democracy + capitalism.

On the other hand - authoritarian capitalism (aka China) might also be a good model as well.

I just don't think it's easy.

It's only easy - if all the people with the guns - agree to move forward on it.

But all of them want a piece of the pie.

And if greed was the only thing to worry about - that'd be manageable - but then you have the Islamic Question.

Its Unacceptable that 56 black nations spread accross the entire world, with various conditions on multiple ccontinents can't figure this out.

I think they know what to do, the same way every fat person knows they need to put down the doughnuts and pick up the dumb bells.

It just ain't easy.
 

get these nets

Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
58,334
Reputation
16,156
Daps
213,624
Reppin
Above the fray.
No, they get airports named after them.....

The level of mind control Western governments have over the population is crazy.

There's people who helped the Nazis that are celebrated in these countries.

But because the West controls the financial system for the most part in recent history, people think everything done by Western governments is great. They really are about doing anything they have to do to keep that power and control over people.

If a man is telling you that he's good, don't believe him.
If a man is telling you he's not good and faulty, believe him.

In the past 6 months





And his aide was convicted in the same probe


Deflections about (assuming De Gaule) in a convo about penalties for corruption in modern day politics, and the differences ?
Really?

Unless there is a non peaceful transfer of power, corrupt politicians in developing countries are generally not held accountable for their actions.
 

Chrishaune

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
39,228
Reputation
2,672
Daps
95,112
Reppin
Huntsville
In the past 6 months



Deflections about (assuming De Gaule) in a convo about penalties for corruption in modern day politics, and the differences ?
Really?

Unless there is a non peaceful transfer of power, corrupt politicians in developing countries are generally not held accountable for their actions.

You realize there's calculation in who they put on trial and who they don't hold accountable right?

We're still wondering what all is involved with Epstein, but will never know.

Guys like Allen Dulles, who was the first director of the CIA, helping Nazis (like I said) escape trial and flee to other countries. The same organization that infiltrates and destroys the governments that the western banking mafia doesn't like to steal resources.

So many mysterious deaths around political leaders that are never investigated.

The brainwashing is serious.

But there's black men that sold marijuana on the streets that are still in jail while the government collects taxes from the sale of the same product today.
 

Mission249

All Star
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
949
Reputation
442
Daps
3,933
Reppin
NULL
There are checks and balances built into political systems in Western countries.
Corruption still occurs, but eventually the bad actor is held accountable.
No, they get airports named after them.....
At least there's decent enough airports to receive their name.

I take your point that corruption exists in both systems. But there's obviously degrees to it. And at its worst, countries can't even manage to pave their roads or consistently electrify their cities.
 
Last edited:

get these nets

Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
58,334
Reputation
16,156
Daps
213,624
Reppin
Above the fray.
You realize there's calculation in who they put on trial and who they don't hold accountable right?

We're still wondering what all is involved with Epstein, but will never know.

Guys like Allen Dulles, who was the first director of the CIA, helping Nazis (like I said) escape trial and flee to other countries. The same organization that infiltrates and destroys the governments that the western banking mafia doesn't like to steal resources.

So many mysterious deaths around political leaders that are never investigated.

The brainwashing is serious.

But there's black men that sold marijuana on the streets that are still in jail while the government collects taxes from the sale of the same product today.
You are deflecting again.
No room for that in serious discussions.
 

Chrishaune

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
39,228
Reputation
2,672
Daps
95,112
Reppin
Huntsville
At least there's decent enough airports to receive their name.

I take your point that corruption exists in both systems. But there's obviously degrees to it. And at its worst, countries can't even manage to pave their roads or consistently electricity their cities.

You are too enamored with the corrupt financial system of the West. Most of the countries you are thinking about have likely had western interference in developing their nation.
 

Chrishaune

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
39,228
Reputation
2,672
Daps
95,112
Reppin
Huntsville
You are deflecting again.
No room for that in serious discussions.

There's no deflection.
You just don't have a serious argument in support of what you think is a non corrupt western society.

Anybody paying attention can tell you western governments are corrupt and not what they want you to believe.
 

get these nets

Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
58,334
Reputation
16,156
Daps
213,624
Reppin
Above the fray.
There's no deflection.
You just don't have a serious argument in support of what you think is a non corrupt western society.
No. Both of us, and everybody reading the thread saw me mention that none of the groupings of countries are free from corruption.

What everybody also saw me mention was that there are built in checks/balances and penalties in Western political systems. And that sham versions of checks exist, if at all, in modern systems of developing countries.

As a result of the lower risk, politicians have a green light to not only skim from the top, but to drain the entire cup in these places.
 

Chrishaune

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
39,228
Reputation
2,672
Daps
95,112
Reppin
Huntsville
No. Both of us, and everybody reading the thread saw me mention that none of the groupings of countries are free from corruption.

What everybody also saw me mention was that there are built in checks/balances and penalties in Western political systems. And that sham versions of checks exist, if at all, in modern systems of developing countries.

As a result of the lower risk, politicians have a green light to not only skim from the top, but to drain the entire cup in these places.

We're talking about the western mind control that is affecting your viewpoint. The Western government systems are as corrupt as any in the world.

You think that a facade of the judicial system is somehow making these less corrupt than what you call "3rd world countries" while the western countries you are referencing have a long record of stealing resources from these other countries.

There's a strong brainwashing going on that is hard to overcome until somebody wants to actually see the truth.
 

get these nets

Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
58,334
Reputation
16,156
Daps
213,624
Reppin
Above the fray.
At least there's decent enough airports to receive their name.

I take your point that corruption exists in both systems. But there's obviously degrees to it. And at its worst, countries can't even manage to pave their roads or consistently electricity their cities.
People dont realize the difference between a politician skimming/getting kickbacks/budget overruns for a million dollar project that gets built 6 months after projected date........and politicians grabbing million dollars from the allocated funds, and project not even started 6 years after projected to be completed .
 

WIA20XX

Superstar
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
9,661
Reputation
4,386
Daps
29,908
People dont realize the difference between a politician skimming/getting kickbacks/budget overruns for a million dollar project that gets built 6 months after projected date........and politicians grabbing million dollars from the allocated funds, and project not even started 6 years after projected to be completed .

Some graft/corruption is survivable, but a lot isn't.

And if it's not coming from the top, it's coming from one's peers



The State is supposed to step in and stop this sort of thing but it doesn't.

This is a big reason why Eastern Europe is not developed either. If it's not the oligarchs, it's the owners, vendors, clients, and employees - all taking a little something for themselves.

At the bottom - it's survival mode
At the top - it's about keeping folks in survival mode.
 

get these nets

Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
58,334
Reputation
16,156
Daps
213,624
Reppin
Above the fray.
We're talking about the western mind control that is affecting your viewpoint. The Western government systems are as corrupt as any in the world.

You think that a facade of the judicial system is somehow making these less corrupt than what you call "3rd world countries" while the western countries you are referencing have a long record of stealing resources from these other countries.

There's a strong brainwashing going on that is hard to overcome until somebody wants to actually see the truth.

You are making it up as you go along. There are corrupt politicians in developing countries in Addition to outside factors like Western meddling.
Its not either/or but both.
And adults making conscious decisions to steal resources or sell out their country , are exactly that. Conscious decisions.

You are using flimsy logic and grasping for straws here.
 
Top