REAL TALK: I'm Man Enough To Admit I Was Wrong About Steph Curry & The Warriors

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Again, regular season accomplishments and stats don't make you all time great. It's not hard, you're just hard-headed.

They've already won a championship and were in game 7 of the NBA Finals. It makes no sense to ignore the fact that they've already had strong postseason success.

Do you think KG's celtics were an all time great team? because they have just one title, but their reputation is that of arguably the best defense this league has ever seen. I'm sure people feel the same way about the mid 2000's Pistons.

Those breakdowns occurred in the first 2 games and corrected after that. "Breakdowns" is the key word. They were making mistakes.

What do you think is the biggest reason for those breakdowns to begin with. Curry forces a defense to bend both on and off ball unlike we've ever seen, they still made mistakes after that stretch and purposely chose to leave players open in order to contain Curry, but they could not capitalize (Harrison Barnes being the main culprit) and I don't know what you're even watching if you don't understand that Cleveland's aggressive traps behind the arc were a big part of their success.


That's because you're not being real and you have an agenda to push. The 27.9 points he averaged in the thunder series doesn't mean he played like the unanimous mvp who's being hyped up as already being an all time great player. He didn't.

If I wasn't being real I'd try to pretend Curry didn't play subpar in the Finals. He did. I just won't exaggerate like you and say that means he's exposed. This is almost like saying David Robinson in 1994 got exposed because he got his ass kicked by Hakeem when in reality that is easily one of the GOAT seasons for a center in this leagues history. You do not nuke an entire year nor do you dramatically take away from a campaign because of a poor series. If Curry played like he did against Cleveland against OKC as well then you would have a remote argument, but that did not happen. The 27.9ppg he averaged in the Thunder series including three straight phenomenal performances in closeout games is not indicative of a player who struggles with mental fortitude and can't deal with physicality like you suggested.


When talking about all time great players and teams you're talking about players/teams that sustained greatness over periods of time. You're not talking about players/teams that were great for a season or two. That's where you're fundamentally wrong. Curry's one title and two mvp regular seasons doesn't make him amongst the best players of all time. That's just disrespectful.

A title and a media decided accolade has literally nothing to do with a players peak. You clearly don't understand what a peak is despite my attempts to explain to you that its a valid way to compare players historically and that it is separate from ranking all time. Curry is not ranked with IT and those others all time. But he is in that conversation in terms of highest level of play reached.

Well reading this your agenda seems to be to overrate players and teams of this current era . What exactly have Paul and Westbrook dominated? They've both been on talented teams for numerous seasons yet they only have one finals appearance between them. They're not dominating anything. They're individual numbers are impressive but this is a team game and they're in leadership positions. Nether player has proven themselves to be all time great leaders.

Reading this it seems you don't have any idea how to evaluate and compare players across league history and determine whether or not someone is dominant unless their team results or your apparently broke eye test says so. It's exactly because it's a team game that you shouldn't hold lack of postseason success against their abilities as individuals. Chris Paul is objectively one of the greatest players the position has ever seen. I would love to see you try to argue him out of the top 5 all time, today. Seriously try it. Westbrook has had a two year stretch that rivals virtually anyone to play the position as well, and for that he has a historically great peak. Doesn't mean all time, but a stretch of play worth noting historically. It is the exact same with Curry. You can say that about 2003 T mac who NEVER got back to the level of play he exhibited that season but can still be compared to Kobe at his best. You can say the same for Bill Walton in '77.

Why Curry and his game speak for itself? Why do you have to put him above guys who proved their status over the course of a full career? There's nothing wrong with sayin that Curry and the GS had an all time great regular season. Just like there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that Curry and GS couldn't reach that same level during the playoffs and didn't look anywhere near as good.

It has spoken for itself. Frankly its on you if you fail to appreciate what you're seeing. Most fans are victims of recency bias and use what's happened lately to influence their opinions on a player. Nobody put Curry over those guys all time, but in that he had a season that is better than their best years. And the problem with looking at Curry's PS in a vacuum is not accounting for the fact that he got injured the very first game (after putting up 24 in 19 minutes of action). His postseason run was interrupted by injury, he would have had a more impressive run if not for the foot and later MCL sprain.

I don't deny his stats just like I don't deny what I saw on the court. OKC did run out of gas which was a concern before the series. That was even part of Kerr's motivation to the Warriors. Why would you deny that? Curry was trash in the first half of game 6 and if Klay doesn't put the cape on they go home. You didn't challenge anything that I said about those last 3 games because you can't. You think just posting stats makes an argument.

I'm not denying it, just doesn't take away from the bottom line that he dropped 30 in every closeout game. Your attempts to deflect from that are terrible. Curry's activity on the perimeter is directly responsible for OKC's players wearing down over the course of a series and by this logic, especially with Steph on a sore knee (which he tweaked in game 7), he should have been fatigued as well.

Curry scored 22 points in the 2nd half of G6 including 14 in the 3rd that led both teams. The Warriors go home if he doesn't do that, too. Who would have thought that this is a team sport and you need your teammates to step up in huge moments if you want to win in the postseason. You just think isolating events sounds intelligent and makes for a rational argument (it doesn't)
 
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GzUp

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Not winning the title is certainly a major blow to a team's "greatness"
You're right about that.
The 2001 Seattle Mariners won 116 regular season games. So what?
The 2007 New England Patriots went 16-0. So what?
This season's San Antonio Spurs won 67 games - tied for the 7th most wins in NBA history. And so what?

Just to take it back a bit further, the 1998 Minnesota Vikings were 15-1, set the NFL scoring record at the time (before the rules changes of the 2000s), and nobody gives a shyt or even remembers them.

Nobody is saying the Warriors were bums.
But who gives a shyt about 4 points or 1 game or sore knees or suspensions or any of that.
You either won the chip, or you didn't.

What the fukk was the scoring differential in the Pistons' 1990 title? Nobody knows. And nobody cares. Because the only thing that matters and that people remember is who won.

:francis:
What about my Bills going to four straight SB, that has to mean something right?:mjcry:

:mjcry:
 

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Not winning the title is certainly a major blow to a team's "greatness"
You're right about that.
The 2001 Seattle Mariners won 116 regular season games. So what?
The 2007 New England Patriots went 16-0. So what?
This season's San Antonio Spurs won 67 games - tied for the 7th most wins in NBA history. And so what?

Just to take it back a bit further, the 1998 Minnesota Vikings were 15-1, set the NFL scoring record at the time (before the rules changes of the 2000s), and nobody gives a shyt or even remembers them.

Nobody is saying the Warriors were bums.
But who gives a shyt about 4 points or 1 game or sore knees or suspensions or any of that.
You either won the chip, or you didn't.

What the fukk was the scoring differential in the Pistons' 1990 title? Nobody knows. And nobody cares. Because the only thing that matters and that people remember is who won.

:francis:

Problem with all of those examples is that the Warriors won a championship in 2015 with the exact same core. They didn't win it all this year and fully make their case for GOAT team, but they were already in the conversation for all time great team.
 

GzUp

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Problem with all of those examples is that the Warriors won a championship in 2015 with the exact same core. They didn't win it all this year and fully make their case for GOAT team, but they were are already in the conversation for all time great team.
I know it gets mentioned Alot but love and kyrie were hurt, that's like beating the Warriors without green and thompson... my point is they got lucky and for that they have a ring to show it... if not for that we would be looking at the Warriors like some Sacramento Webber team.
 

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What about my Bills going to four straight SB, that has to mean something right?:mjcry:

:mjcry:
Yeah, it means they were good.
I'm not arguing the Warriors aint good.

But the Bills (unfortunately) didn't win the chip, so their accomplishment is sort of...diminished.
But there's a difference because the Bills went to 4 straight SBs.

That's a heck of a lot different than say...the Eagles losing 3 straight Conference Championships (and the SB the following year)
That 4 year run from Philly is pretty fukkin impressive. But nobody will ever compare that to the Bills.

The Warriors won a title, and had a fantastic regular season...and then didn't finish it.
Not saying they're bums. Not saying they aren't good. But at the end of the day, it's 1 title and 1 great regular season while coming up short.

You just can't dance around it no matter what.
 

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Problem with all of those examples is that the Warriors won a championship in 2015 with the exact same core. They didn't win it all this year and fully make their case for GOAT team, but they were already in the conversation for all time great team.
It doesn't matter.
 

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I know it gets mentioned Alot but love and kyrie were hurt, that's like beating the Warriors without green and thompson... my point is they got lucky and for that they have a ring to show it... if not for that we would be looking at the Warriors like some Sacramento Webber team.

You can use that reasoning for lots of champions. Getting fortunate breaks is a part of winning titles in this league, you need luck on your side.

What happens if Iguodala doesn't tweak his back or Bogut doesn't tear up his knee leading to Festus/Andy V getting minutes they don't deserve or Draymond doesn't get suspended for a home game up 3-1

answer: who cares. A champion is a champion on to the next season

It doesn't matter.

Well it should if you value NBA history.

They are the MDA Phoenix Suns with an elite defense. That is a historically nice team
 

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You can use that reasoning for lots of champions. Getting fortunate breaks is a part of winning titles in this league, you need luck on your side.

What happens if Iguodala doesn't tweak his back or Bogut doesn't tear up his knee leading to Festus/Andy V getting minutes they don't deserve or Draymond doesn't get suspended for a home game up 3-1

answer: who cares. A champion is a champion on to the next season



Well it should if you value NBA history.

They are the MDA Phoenix Suns with an elite defense. That is a historically nice team
We are not talking about role players here, Love and kyrie... imagine if the kings had the luxury of facing the Lakers without Shaq and kobe?... to me the Warriors win will always have a asterisk.
 

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We are not talking about role players here, Love and kyrie... imagine if the kings had the luxury of facing the Lakers without Shaq and kobe?... to me the Warriors win will always have a asterisk.

Well Love is a role player against the Warriors, and you're mistaken if you think it's rare for a championship team to get injury breaks in their favor. People just don't remember after the fact because a title is the bottom line. Magic Johnson missed most of the 1989 Finals but nobody cares anymore

If the Kings faced the Lakers without Shaq and Kobe they wouldn't have an asterisk. It's just a break in their favor
 

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Well Love is a role player against the Warriors, and you're mistaken if you think it's rare for a championship team to get injury breaks in their favor. People just don't remember after the fact because a title is the bottom line. Magic Johnson missed most of the 1989 Finals but nobody cares anymore

If the Kings faced the Lakers without Shaq and Kobe they wouldn't have an asterisk. It's just a break in their favor
I suppose, fukk them though :wow:
 

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Well Love is a role player against the Warriors, and you're mistaken if you think it's rare for a championship team to get injury breaks in their favor. People just don't remember after the fact because a title is the bottom line. Magic Johnson missed most of the 1989 Finals but nobody cares anymore

If the Kings faced the Lakers without Shaq and Kobe they wouldn't have an asterisk. It's just a break in their favor

The kings were hurt by the refs more than any laker
 

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They've already won a championship and were in game 7 of the NBA Finals. It makes no sense to ignore the fact that they've already had strong postseason success.
I'm not ignoring anything I'm rejecting your stupid ass argument. The last 2 seasons do not qualify GS as one of the best teams of all time.

Do you think KG's celtics were an all time great team?
because they have just one title, but their reputation is that of arguably the best defense this league has ever seen. I'm sure people feel the same way about the mid 2000's Pistons.
No, they aren't classified as an atg team either.

What do you think is the biggest reason for those breakdowns to begin with.
Miscommunication. During the first two GS actually played better with Curry on the bench.

Curry forces a defense to bend both on and off ball unlike we've ever seen, they still made mistakes after that stretch and purposely chose to leave players open in order to contain Curry, but they could not capitalize (Harrison Barnes being the main culprit) and I don't know what you're even watching if you don't understand that Cleveland's aggressive traps behind the arc were a big part of their success.
The Cavs strategy was to switch Curry's pick n roll and live with the consequences. This is why we saw TT and Love left isolated with dude on the perimeter with that championship on the line. You keep ignoring that to push this "Curry forces defenses to bend like nobody we've ever seen" bullshyt. Curry didn't force the Cavs to bend nor did he make them pay for not bending. He missed his share of open shots and shots that he has normally made as well.

If I wasn't being real I'd try to pretend Curry didn't play subpar in the Finals. He did. I just won't exaggerate like you and say that means he's exposed. This is almost like saying David Robinson in 1994 got exposed because he got his ass kicked by Hakeem when in reality that is easily one of the GOAT seasons for a center in this leagues history. You do not nuke an entire year nor do you dramatically take away from a campaign because of a poor series. If Curry played like he did against Cleveland against OKC as well then you would have a remote argument, but that did not happen. The 27.9ppg he averaged in the Thunder series including three straight phenomenal performances in closeout games is not indicative of a player who struggles with mental fortitude and can't deal with physicality like you suggested.
You're not keeping it real and your arguments are bullshyt. You're basically arguing against yourself. Curry was exposed as not being as good as people like you hyped him up to be, pretty much the same way David Robinson was. Good analogy. David was a great player but he was exposed as not being the true mvp of the league the year that he won it.

Im not saying that the last two seasons don't count and it doesn't mean that Curry's a bum. It means he's not as good as people like you hyped him up to be. He didn't play like an all time great player in the OKC series nor the Cleveland series. Repeating his stats doesn't change that.

A title and a media decided accolade has literally nothing to do with a players peak. You clearly don't understand what a peak is despite my attempts to explain to you that its a valid way to compare players historically and that it is separate from ranking all time. Curry is not ranked with IT and those others all time. But he is in that conversation in terms of highest level of play reached.
You'd be better off just listening. You think that I reject your argument because I don't understand it and I've told you more than once that I understand your argument it's just stupid as fukk. I'm not talking about all time rankings. I'm telling you that as of right now Curry has not proven that he is one of the best players of all time. I don't give a fukk about regular season stats because regular season stats have to be put into context. The Curry that played in this year's playoffs is not as good as Zeke or any of the other all time great players were at their best/peak. The Zeke that went to 3 straight finals didn't fold under the pressure like Steph just did.

Reading this it seems you don't have any idea how to evaluate and compare players across league history and determine whether or not someone is dominant unless their team results or your apparently broke eye test says so. It's exactly because it's a team game that you shouldn't hold lack of postseason success against their abilities as individuals.
You argue/debate like a bytch. You overrate players and put them on a pedestal that they don't deserve them when I push pack against it you try and act like I'm hating. I haven't held anything against Paul and Westbrook's abilities as individual players. I even
said that their individual numbers are impressive. You said that they dominate, and I asked what do they dominate? They haven't won shyt between them. It's a team game and the same way that you can't put their lack of team success in the playoffs all on them, you can't ignore their lack of team success while pretending their individual stats are the end all be all either. As good as Paul and Westbrook are, they both have obvious holes in their games that keeps them from being able to lead their teams to the ultimate prize.

Chris Paul is objectively one of the greatest players the position has ever seen. I would love to see you try to argue him out of the top 5 all time, today. Seriously try it. Westbrook has had a two year stretch that rivals virtually anyone to play the position as well, and for that he has a historically great peak. Doesn't mean all time, but a stretch of play worth noting historically. It is the exact same with Curry.
That's not an objective opinion of Chris Paul, it's a subjective opinion. :mjlol: at him being a top 5 point guard of all time. Like I said, you're just a stat boy geek. There's no argument. Dude hasn't even lead a team to the conference finals yet. As far as Westbrook, yea his individual numbers are impressive. It's like I said above tho, he has clear holes in his game that has kept him from leading his team all the way. He's not one of the best point guards ever. He's a shooting guard playing point.

You can say that about 2003 T mac who NEVER got back to the level of play he exhibited that season but can still be compared to Kobe at his best.
This makes no sense. Tmac never made it passed the first round as the man in Orlando. He never got the chance to show and prove himself on the big postseason stage like that. Maybe he would've played well on that stage maybe he wouldn't have. Kobe showed and proved on the biggest stage. Saying that 2003 Tmac is one of the best players of all time is silly.

It has spoken for itself.
Exactly. GS making 2 finals going 1-1 doesn't qualify them as an atg team. Curry's 25-5-5-4(turnovers) on 44% shooting for the playoffs overall and 23-5-4-4(turnovers) on 40% shooting in the finals doesn't justify calling him one of the best players of all time.

Frankly its on you if you fail to appreciate what you're seeing. Most fans are victims of recency bias and use what's happened lately to influence their opinions on a player. Nobody put Curry over those guys all time, but in that he had a season that is better than their best years.
I do appreciate what I'm seeing. You're over-appreciating it. You should stop trying to put this dumbass "but I'm not talking about all time" spin on it too. Dude(you) said that Curry is better than Zeke ever was. We can read the stars for ourselves chump. We don't need you to declare that Curry has had a better statistical year than Zeke ever had. That's not saying anything. You can't compare individual player stats from different eras and think that will tell you who the better player was. Stats have to be out into context. Zeke never played in a league geared toward perimeter players like this. Who knows what kind of numbers a prime Zeke would put up in today's era. Who knows what kind of numbers Steph would put up in Zeke's era.

And the problem with looking at Curry's PS in a vacuum is not accounting for the fact that he got injured the very first game (after putting up 24 in 19 minutes of action). His postseason run was interrupted by injury, he would have had a more impressive run if not for the foot and later MCL sprain.
*insert Curry's I'm back gif*

fukk up with that injury excuse.



I'm not denying it, just doesn't take away from the bottom line that he dropped 30 in every closeout game. Your attempts to deflect from that are terrible. Curry's activity on the perimeter is directly responsible for OKC's players wearing down over the course of a series and by this logic, especially with Steph on a sore knee (which he tweaked in game 7), he should have been fatigued as well.
I haven't deflected from anything dummy. I'm saying that regardless of what he averaged against OKC, he didn't play like one of the best players of all time. That's what your stupid ass keeps deflecting from.

Curry scored 22 points in the 2nd half of G6 including 14 in the 3rd that led both teams. The Warriors go home if he doesn't do that, too. Who would have thought that this is a team sport and you need your teammates to step up in huge moments if you want to win in the postseason. You just think isolating events sounds intelligent and makes for a rational argument (it doesn't)
The point was that Klay was the MVP of that game 6. Curry's good 3rd quarter just made up for his garbage play in the first half. If he doesn't play like garbage that first half maybe Klay wouldn't have hadto put the cape on and save the season.

You argue like a bytchy female regardless of what name you're under.
 
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