ANALYTICS WIT ANOTHER L
Retired NbA player goes on anti-analytics rant , say nerds were jealous of real athletes
- Thread starter goatmane
- Start date
He'll get in.
Data is data but the way you mine and apply it can still be biased
This is a big problem in AI.... for example, face recognition not being able to discern non white faces because
Plus there's always the problem of owning that the analytics are wrong. If the nerds are wrong they are out of their jobs, so it's in their interest to keep pushing Moreyball
Not to mention, how far do you let analytics go.... should they get rid of the coaches? What if the coach's instincts go against the data? FFS look at the Rockets. Prime data ball with no chance whatsoever at reaching the finals. What's missing??
Data is data but the way you mine and apply it can still be biased
This is a big problem in AI.... for example, face recognition not being able to discern non white faces because
Plus there's always the problem of owning that the analytics are wrong. If the nerds are wrong they are out of their jobs, so it's in their interest to keep pushing Moreyball
Why do you guys LOVE pointing to the Rockets as if the Warriors and every other team don't also use analytics to find an edge on the court?
How can you cats not realize it's not black and white, but somewhere in between?
Also you guys are obsessed with athletes. It's quite mindblowing.
Also you guys are obsessed with athletes. It's quite mindblowing.
Eddie goes in all the time on NBA radio. Hisnshownairsbat 4pm daily, I try to catch it as much as I can.
that boy went hard in the paint. for the paint. lol
but he's correct. I said this before. i see whats going on here. is there some truth to the analytics? YES. is there also an agenda? YES.
Men lie, Women lie but number do... stop it. numbers tell half trues because men and women control the narrative of the numbers. if the numbers are not presented in the proper context the lay person will not know the difference and will believe said numbers. it happens in all walks of life.
people have agendas, they pull numbers to fit their agenda. then run and tell everyone "look at this big time numbers and what they show." as if these numbers are all of the numbers. they are not.
You say things like the post up is inefficient. sure it is, when the guys posting up suck at ....posting up because you made it a point to make sure big kids growing up no longer want to touch the block. they just want to dribble and shot. so they have no counter moves in the post.
People forget, its not just about points. but they wont tell you that. when you post up and have real moves. you not only will cause perimeter defenders to drop down for the double, creating cutting lanes, but not you have shooters wide open for that analytics three ball they want so much. But there's on more thing they never address when talking about dominant post scorers. They will get the other team in foul trouble early in the quarter, and throughout the game. this causes the opponent to not have the ability to play as touch defense come late in quarters or late in the game for fear of fouling out or putting you on the ft line.
this is what shaq use to do. with his horrible ft shooting. he would have entire teams in foul trouble. he would have 3 of their bigs sitting with 4 to 5 fouls a piece.
this means when that little guy goes to the rack or kobe cuts back door. that big cant even jump. because if he does. its an And 1 possibly or a foul call(bogus or legit) wont matter. he will be out of the game. now your main big cant go for the 4th. beautiful. shaq is about to murder your backup. but nope. he will foul out too or you have to send 2 or 3 guys to help. they will reach and get fouls too. fisher, and all the other role guys say thank you. more fts for them. more wide open uncontested shots for them.
IF you employe the dont defend the big man. you can do that vs a team that cant stop you from scoring. but if they have solid defense this will backfire on you. because they have more or less a guaranteed 2 points coming the next time down, and you're going to attempt to shoot a 3 and pray it hits so you can get 3 for 2. that only works if you're insanely elite at shooting(gstate...super rare), but you also have above average defense as a team and the opponent isnt that hot at posting up. this is why gstate destroyed the league pre KD as long as no one was suspended or hurt in the playoffs.
But this is also why i would always say, any laker championship team that played would beat the non KD warriors in a 7 game series. People in this era forget how dominant some bigs were against these dudes who cant guard them. its just that the stats they have are skewed. if you have a dominant big today. he will destroy the league because there are no Hakeems, Pat ewings, Zo's, to stop them.
If embid wasnt injury prone and was in perfect condition. GOOD NIGHT. If Cousins wasnt hurt and in perfect condition. GOOD NIGHT. dont ever let these types have some teammates too. its a wrap for the nba. you better pray they get and stay hurt and are convenced to shoot 6 threes a game vs posting up most of the game and shooting the occasional 2 to 3 threes per max.
Marc Spector
the 4'11 Cuban
No, but with modern player compositions (small ball lineups, position-less, no true center) a team is more likely to have players who can hit a 3 vs. a dominant post up big man.
A lot of people think Pro 3 Ball analytics just came out of nowhere, but a lot of other factors shaped the league (the Iso-Ball era shift towards wing scorers, birth of the combo guard, D'antonis 6 seconds or less, Spurs motion offense) and personnel to HAVE to adopt heavy 3 ball use since thats what their personnel supported.
Its an ever changing league.
its not black and white. its actually all white. but you aint hearing what i'm saying. eddie is talking about someone. he's talking about a specific group of people. who are these nerds mostly? short, nonathletic white guys(mostly). The more you push the 3 ball and handles. the more you push short dudes becoming the thing. and tall dudes becoming extinct. that is a fact.
now on the face of it. as i said. its not all one or the other. its a nice mix and blend. which is actually what EJ was saying to begin with.
But let the nerds tell it. its all handles and 3's.
Sixers completely shut down the Raptors shooting last year. They lost because Gasol owned Embiid and Kawhi owned Simmons. That’s it.
Toronto really struggled to score in that series because of Philly’s size. If Embiid wasn’t scared of Gasol they woulda won in 5.
The league changes based on whats promoted. this has been promoted for over a decade now. so guess what the kids growing up do. they do a euorstep and bump someone and yell And 1. like james harden. they do the harden travel step back and do the Stirring motion.No, but with modern player compositions (small ball lineups, position-less, no true center) a team is more likely to have players who can hit a 3 vs. a dominant post up big man.
A lot of people think Pro 3 Ball analytics just came out of nowhere, but a lot of other factors shaped the league (the Iso-Ball era shift towards wing scorers, birth of the combo guard, D'antonis 6 seconds or less, Spurs motion offense) and personnel to HAVE to adopt heavy 3 ball use since thats what their personnel supported.
Its an ever changing league.
The league is what they promote. it takes about 10 years for the kids that were watching to become rookies in the nba. its not a surprise all of the bigs in the current nba that are young even those with post skill are being called soft at times. because they grew up hearing about 3's being better than 2's, and post up is dead and bigs need to stretch the floor. you have Kat out here looking pillow soft and he could be dominant with a nice post game and a hint of 3's. but nope. he wants to face up and chuck or face up and dribble too da... much or face up and make cute passes.
this also takes the pressure off of GMs to make a championship caliber team. they can just get a MDA type of coach and run fast, and chuck and say thats what the nerds told us to do. the game will be exciting to watch while they lose. vs them having to find Gems and find those bigs that have post game with a decent jumper to boot. vs looking for a bunch of dudes who are tall that can only shoot 3s and not much else.
ogc163
Superstar
I'm still waiting on a good argument against analytics. So many cognitive biases and logical fallacies in that man's post.
The Suns TV announcer
Why u change the title? EJ went from hall of fame to retirement
Better yet why you call him a hall of famer to begin with
