Domingo Halliburton
Handmade in USA
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Sanders Is Not Trump
- Thread starter CHL
- Start date
His means for paying for all his school council president promises, and his counterproductive animus for Wall St, for starters.
He doesnt even realize or acknowledge that after Dodd Frank banks are a lot less profitable and risky. So a big chunk of the reform he wants has already happened. Like many other redistributionists, this is not about "reigning in Wall St" or "helping the working class". It's about eviscerating the capitalists and giving all their property and wealth away (to whom is irrelevant). Problem is, America requires capitalists AND workers to function. So a platform that is run on explicitly destroying one for the short term anger and jealousy of the other is not a viable plan. The guy needs some lessons in macroeconomics and govt budgeting before he gets the keys IMO. He is a classic case of a broke intellectual angry at the fact that the society he lives in functions on trade and economic activity rather than pontification and iedeology
I stopped reading around your second sentence because I've seen this story before. Basically, you have a certain belief that certain things in capitalism must remain.mIt's easy to poke fun at the @DEAD7s of the world, but why don't you ever dig into the minutia of any issue? You say the same things as many of the conservative posters on here in less offensive ways, but ultimately there is no substance behind it. Smart people are not smart because they have all of the answers, they are smart because they know the right questions to ask. You look intellectually dishonest by trying to misrepresent what Sanders says without ever actually addressing his stances and beliefs.
HOW IS MEDICARE FOR ALL NOT REALISTIC? Do not try to run any talk about the politics of getting it past. Explain to me how medicare-for-all is not possible? The general consensus is that it is less costly. What are you talking about?
Politifact Confirms Bernie Sanders’ Healthcare Plan Will SAVE Every American Family $1,200/Year
Amanda Girard | January 13, 2016
Here’s the breakdown.
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The nation’s leading political fact-checker has debunked Hillary Clinton’s recent attacks on Bernie Sanders’ healthcare plan.
According to Politifact’s recent analysis of Bernie Sanders’ proposal to expand Medicare to all Americans under his “Medicare for All” single-payer healthcare system, Sanders’ plan would save the average household between $505 and $1,823 per year — just shy of a $1,200 average cost savings. While this figure is lower than the Sanders campaign’s estimate of$3,855 to $5,173 in savings, it still means American families will pay less under single-payer healthcare than they currently do under the Affordable Care Act.
Sanders’ plan is modeled after single-payer legislation he introduced in 2013, which outlines how the plan would be implemented and paid for on a nationwide scale. First, Sanders would impose a 6.7 percent payroll tax on employers, along with a 2.2 percent healthcare tax on those making less than $250,000 per year. Sanders includes higher percentages for incomes above $250,000 in his legislation (the richest 2 percent of the U.S. population) and a 5.4 percent surcharge on the wealthiest Americans whose modified adjusted gross income is above $1,000,000 (literally less than 1 percent of Americans). Sanders’ bill also includes a 0.02 percent financial transactions tax on Wall Street trading.
So what are Americans getting in return for all these new taxes? As it turns out, quite a lot.
Bernie Sanders’ campaign claims the small amount of money Americans will pay in these new healthcare taxes will mean a $0 cost for all healthcare premiums, deductibles, and even copays. Using today’s median income of $50,000, the Sanders campaign made the below chart to illustrate how much the average family would save under both Sanders’ healthcare plan compared to Clinton’s plan:
The Sanders campaign used 2015 data from the Kaiser Family Foundation to estimate current private health insurance costs, and says the cost savings listed would likely be even greater, as the plan is based on taxable income, rather than total income. Sanders also claims that the 6.6 percent payroll tax on employers would mean additional savings for businesses, as the Kaiser Family Foundation estimates the average business pays $12,591 in healthcare contributions for a worker making $50,000. A 6.6 percent payroll tax cuts the employer contribution down to $3,350 — a savings of over $9,000.
Politifact estimates that the new taxes Sanders imposes would mean the richest Americans would fund single-payer healthcare with $117 billion per year, while the other 95 percent of Americans would pay a combined $126 billion. Another $432 billion would come from the new payroll taxes. Going by 2008 numbers, economist Dean Baker estimated that a 0.02 percent financial transactions tax would bring in $177 billion per year, accounting for the decline in trading volume expected from the imposition of such a tax. That means an estimated $852 billion in new revenue would be made available to fund single-payer healthcare under the Sanders plan.
While 2013 healthcare costs exceeded $1.2 trillion, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Sanders says his plan will lower healthcare costs considerably as the government will be in a better position to negotiate costs with healthcare providers, providing for additional savings. University of Massachusetts-Amherst health economist Gerald Friedman confirmed that the Sanders plan, with a little refining, would be able to provide comprehensive healthcare to all Americans and still generate an annual surplus of $5.1 billion.
The numbers confirm it — even with the new taxes, American families and businesses would save thousands of dollars under Bernie Sanders’ healthcare plan. Hillary Clinton should go over her numbers again before she criticizes Berniecare.
Free public education on the other hand is a more heated topic, but at least point out why it cannot work.
Domingo Halliburton
Handmade in USA
Sanders has to raise taxes on everyone to make his policies even remotely work or drastically reduce spending (which isn't happening so its taxes).
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
Won't someone PLEASE defend the rich from this Bernie Sanders bully??? 
Breh I myself have suggested expanding Medicare to everyone as well as public education. Like I said my beef isn't those ideas themselves, it's the fact that he is using them as a proxy for his crusade against capitalism and in doing so hasn't really thought through how to pay for them. The sum of his proposals will add to the deficit:
How Bernie pays for his proposals - Bernie Sanders
And he himself has admitted he hasn't ironed out all the details of his bold proposals
Clinton hits Sanders on middle class tax hikes
Hes banking on gouging the rich without actually demonstrating that higher rates would guarantee more revenue. History doesn't support his plan:
Why Higher Tax Rates Don’t Necessarily Mean More Revenue
And in that analysis you showed above. the effect of the new payroll tax to employers is disregarded. Is it realistic to say a 7% tax won't have an effect on wages or hiring? I don't think so. Not saying it's not a good plan but time and time again he has demonstrated his analysis of the financials of his proposals are optimistic and incomplete. I am for public healthcare, higher education and all that... I have been advocating for them for years. But they have to be paid for in a responsible way, which means not putting any ideas out that haven't been thoroughly vetted as completely as possible. He seems to take his electorate to be stupid, and to a large degree I guess they are since they aren't asking any questions. But I want to see all the math. "We are going to go after the speculators and fat cats" is not a thorough funding plan.
the cac mamba
Veteran
yeah ive been pretty disgusted by the whole 'this guy has the audacity to tell the truth, what a joke' shyt ive been seeing
Sanders' social democracy is what you're describing tho. It's a system that has some public goods of socialism with the capitalist class still present. Just taxed more. It's not expropriation. Also tying trade and commerce in general with capitalism is a mistake but that's a thread of its own.
And sanders is hardly running a campaign against the concept of capitalism. I think you are conflating ppl online who are sympathetic to sanders, myself included, with sanders campaign itself.
This is true. You can't have single payer and other good things without a broad tax base. More taxes for public goods is a good thing.
NY has a working model for free college education right now. For students who qualify and who maintain a certain GPA and credits, you can essentially go to school tuition-free. And not just Community Colleges either, but 4-year prestigious institutions in CUNY.
Other states have the money also, it's all a matter of how it's delegated.
Simple.
Spanky 6000
Banned
All of those would be bad ideas but I would also include government run day care.
And just think about all of the people that would lose their jobs and businesses forced to close if there was a $15 federal minimum wage.
Bad post here spanky. All those things are good.
Spanky 6000
Banned
Why do you want to force businesses to close and put people out of work with a $15 minimum wage???
How can liberals be so cold and callous?
Kingpin, calm down. Second, Bernie is not getting at 15 dollar minimum wage. At best we will get a minimum wage that takes into account cost of living. But 15 dollars would have negative effects in many areas.