So is Kawhi the best perimeter defender ever?

[Malta]

The mental gymnastics these clowns do to protect the 90's

Dude really just said the 3 second rule eliminated big man in the paint


He doesn't know the zone and the 3 second rule came about at the same time.

 

[Malta]

The problem with this comparison is that we're assuming the great defenders of the past would not be able to adapt to today's game

This is the counter argument to the constant "offensive players have the advantage!" and "handchecking, hanchecking"


If handchecking is that big of a deal, it stands to reason guys like Bradley, Allen, George, Kawhi etc would be incredible if they were allowed to handcheck, right?

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

This is the counter argument to the constant "offensive players have the advantage!" and "handchecking, hanchecking"


If handchecking is that big of a deal, it stands to reason guys like Bradley, Allen, George, Kawhi etc would be incredible if they were allowed to handcheck, right?

Not unless they played in the 90's

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

No, the change for the 2004-2005 season is cited as the most impactful, when the rules for handchecking were changed. That is and always will be the one rule everyone is pointing to, and nothing you said would hinder Curry, not even sure why you brought him up Act like slight guys like Kevin Johnson, Michael Adams and Mark Price weren't giving work in the 90s breh, how did they ever manage to score with the mighty flagrants

Also, in the 90s teams had illegal defense, you could not devote two defenders to 1 man without the ball, there was no loading the hell out of the strongside like there is today. Also, you don't know what you're talking about in regards to the 3 second rule, there were never any big men just camping out in the lane, that would have been illegal defense back in the day, the three second rule was implemented at the same time as the zone to insure that you didn't play any gimmicky 2-3 zones with some 7'3" dude who can't move. The 3 second rule and the zone came about at the same time, you don't know what you talkin bout B

not a single one of these nikkas avg over 20 points and you talking bout giving work

you do know curry shoots mostly off screens... which is why i brought up how you could physically stop people from screening... among other things

i can tell you know nothing about basketball


most of the shyt i said has been backed up by actual nba hall of famers.. but lets take your rationale on the subject



but i'll let the man who invented these rules tell you

NBA.com: One of the fundamental criticisms of the NBA was that there was too much isolation. What did the league do to address those concerns and improve the overall game?

Stu Jackson: In the late '90s and the beginning of the decade, the game had become too focused on isolation play, while other players stood around under the old illegal defense guidelines. The game had also gotten too physical and too slow. A special committee of basketball experts was formed in the early part of the decade to study the game and make recommendations as to how to make it more exciting to watch. In 2001, that committee made a rules package recommendation to the Board of Governors, which was ultimately passed for implementation during the 2001-02 season. The Board voted to eliminate our old illegal defense guidelines, to implement a new defensive three-second call, reduce the time allowable to get the ball across half-court from 10 seconds to eight seconds, and allow less contact. All changes were passed with the idea of trying to encourage more free flowing five-man offenses, open up the lanes for cutting and passing and speed up the game by encouraging teams to get into their offenses quicker.

NBA.com: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

SJ: No. The scoring increase was not our goal. Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.

NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

SJ: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

NBA.com: The number of 3-point attempts has risen since the 2004-05 season, more so than the mid-range shots. Is this a positive development?

SJ: It depends on your perspective. We feel the 3-point shot has been an exciting play for our game and has put a premium on having skill players with an all-around game.

 

[AAKing23]

This is the counter argument to the constant "offensive players have the advantage!" and "handchecking, hanchecking"


If handchecking is that big of a deal, it stands to reason guys like Bradley, Allen, George, Kawhi etc would be incredible if they were allowed to handcheck, right?

Yes they'd be even tougher to score on if they were given more leeway to be more physical

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

not a single one of these nikkas avg over 20 points and you talking bout giving work

you do know curry shoots mostly off screens... which is why i brought up how you could physically stop people from screening... among other things

i can tell you know nothing about basketball


most of the shyt i said has been backed up by actual nba hall of famers.. but lets take your rationale on the subject



but i'll let the man who invented these rules tell you

Johnson did 5 different times

 

[Malta]

not a single one of these nikkas avg over 20 points and you talking bout giving work

you do know curry shoots mostly off screens... which is why i brought up how you could physically stop people from screening... among other things

i can tell you know nothing about basketball


most of the shyt i said has been backed up by actual nba hall of famers.. but lets take your rationale on the subject



but i'll let the man who invented these rules tell you

Best years -
Kevin Johnson averaged 23/11
Michael Adams averaged 27/11 (he was 5'10 160lbs)

Curry made 177 unassisted threes this year, most in the league by a huge margin, Reggie Miller made 229 threes in his best year, Curry off the dribble made damn near the same amount Physically stop people from screening? bruh you couldn't blow up screens in any era, which is why Miller used to run off so many of them, why weren't people just trucking them like you seem to think, or was Jonathan Ogden out there blocking for the Pacers?

What rules? You didn't even know what the 3 second rule is, you literally thought it was allowing big men to just stand in the lane, even though the zone was illegal before 2001

 

[ReggieFlare]

This is the counter argument to the constant "offensive players have the advantage!" and "handchecking, hanchecking"


If handchecking is that big of a deal, it stands to reason guys like Bradley, Allen, George, Kawhi etc would be incredible if they were allowed to handcheck, right?

From a logical standpoint it makes sense, but it's still purely hypothetical. If they grew up playing in that era, they may have had a different approach to how they played defense but it would not necessarily be a better approach. Who's to say they would have had the same defensive habits they have now if they developed in a fairly different landscape?

 

[seemorecizzy]

When did Kobe say this?

Kobe gifts shoes to Tony Allen, the 'best defender I ever faced'

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Kobe gifts shoes to Tony Allen, the 'best defender I ever faced'

Yes I know that, but when did Kobe say Allen was the best perimeter defender ever, and not the best he's played against?

 

[nieman]

I don't think Kawhi is a better defender than Matrix was. So he's already down the list.

MJ
Pippen
Glove
Kidd
Ron Ron
EJ
Matrix
Mookie
Derek Harper
Kobe

That's 10 right there. The bolded I have easily above him. I haven't even mentioned Tony Allen or Delonte Desperado.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Best years -
Kevin Johnson averaged 23/11
Michael Adams averaged 27/11 (he was 5'10 160lbs)

Curry made 177 unassisted threes this year, most in the league by a huge margin, Reggie Miller made 229 threes in his best year, Curry off the dribble made damn near the same amount Physically stop people from screening? bruh you couldn't blow up screens in any era, which is why Miller used to run off so many of them, why weren't people just trucking them like you seem to think, or was Jonathan Ogden out there blocking for the Pacers?

What rules? You didn't even know what the 3 second rule is, you literally thought it was allowing big men to just stand in the lane, even though the zone was illegal before 2001

1 year huh... we talking career... KJ - 17.9 he was killing them huh... wooooooooooooo
Career
735 623 34.1 .493 .305 .841 .70 2.60 3.30 9.1 1.47 .24 3.07 2.10 17.9

and yes you could camp in the lane if there was a man near by.. usually the opposing center

 

[Malta]

1 year huh... we talking career... KJ - 17.9 he was killing them huh... wooooooooooooo
Career
735 623 34.1 .493 .305 .841 .70 2.60 3.30 9.1 1.47 .24 3.07 2.10 17.9

and yes you could camp in the lane if there was a man near by.. usually the opposing center

Kevin Johnson averaged 22 and 10 the year after his career year, cot damn you're a terrible devil's advocate.


You really have no idea what the 3 second rule is, this shyt is hilarious. Centers still have to be within an arm length of the offensive player if they're in the paint, at no point in time were big men just "camped" in the lane, you do know there's offensive 3 seconds, right?

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Kevin Johnson averaged 22 and 10 the year after his career year, cot damn you're a terrible devil's advocate.


You really have no idea what the 3 second rule is, this shyt is hilarious. Centers still have to be within an arm length of the offensive player if they're in the paint, at no point in time were big men just "camped" in the lane, you do know there's offensive 3 seconds, right?

and he avg 17.9 for his career.. can you not read numbers.. are we talking about scoring or passing? did stu jackson agree with me or you?

i also said the part about the offensive player as well... but i'm gonna let you cook

 

[Playa With Tha Passport]