So you still got guys who think Kyrie better than Wall????
And that's another thing folk have to take into account, Kyrie raises his game in the playoffs, whereas from what we've seen from Wall - he trends in the opposite direction. I don't know why it's so hard for dudes to accept that others believe Kyrie's the better player. It's a reasonable position to hold. If you took a fine-toothed comb over the Cavs '16 postseason you would see that Kyrie did more bulk scoring during the most pivotal parts than LeBron did. It's highly unlikely that Wall would be able to replicate that sort of impact in a postseason environment.
You really just talkin noise right now. Never seen John Wall choke in post season. He actually plays better in the post season. Swept the raptors just two years ago. Shut down Lowry that whole series. They probably would've beaten the Hawks too that year had he not damaged his hand. Still had pretty good games playing with it messed up too when he was told not to play check them stats.
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Wall in the 2013/14 regular season - 19.3 ppg on 42% overall shooting, 35% 3-pt shooting on 3.8 attempts, 8.8 assists and 3.6 turnovers in 36 mins
Wall in the 2013/14 postseason - 16.3 ppg on 36% overall shooting, 21% 3-pt shooting on 2.9 attempts, 7.1 assists and 3.3 turnovers in 38 mins
Wall in the 2014/15 regular season - 17.6 ppg on 44% overall shooting, 30% 3-pt shooting on 2.7 attempts, 10.0 assists and 3.8 turnovers in 35.9 mins
Wall in the 2014/15 postseason - 17.4 ppg on 39% overall shooting, 17% 3-pt shooting on 2.4 attempts, 11.9 assists and 3.9 turnovers in 39 mins
Now the surface numbers don't tell the whole story (and he was injured during the '15 postseason with a fractured hand), but he most certainly doesn't play better in the postseason. That is a cotdamn lie. Most of his core numbers and efficiency take a sharp drop in the playoffs. Not to mention he scored 12 points on 31% shooting and had five turnovers during the elimination game loss against Indiana in 2014, and scored 20 points on 33% shooting and had six turnovers during the elimination game loss against Atlanta in 2015.
Am I really just making shyt up or am I telling the truth about Wall under-performing in the postseason?
You came with the facts can't front but pull up them stats vs the Raptors and Hawks in 2015 too. His first playoff year he was off it was his first appearance anyway that series came and went. Refs let Hibbert travel in the post the rest of the series and the rest was history. Nene was a crutch on that team. Refused to play defense. We'll see what he does this year.
And that's another thing folk have to take into account, Kyrie raises his game in the playoffs, whereas from what we've seen from Wall - he trends in the opposite direction. I don't know why it's so hard for dudes to accept that others believe Kyrie's the better player. It's a reasonable position to hold. I mean if you took a fine-toothed comb over the Cavs '16 postseason you would see that Kyrie did more bulk scoring during the most pivotal parts than LeBron did. It's highly unlikely that Wall would be able to replicate that sort of impact in a postseason environment.
No one denies Kyrie is a better scorer than Wall but he's allowed to score like that on Lebron's team because Lebron takes care of the bulk of the playmaking duties.
But being an elitely versatile scorer isn't the only thing that goes into a better overall player. Kyrie could argued as a more dangerous scorer than Lebron/Giannis but I wouldn't call him more impactful than those two.
Kyrie raises his game while he plays besides a HOF teammate and one of the most uniquely versatile talents of all time bearing the weight of running the offense, consistently creating for the team, and being the offensive anchor. Kyrie isn't forced to do things like control the tempo, get guys to where they're supposed to be, create and run the offense for the team, etc because he has a GOAT-tier player doing that.
Kyrie only has to focus on firepower. It's when he's supposed to be the floor leader and start being the primary playmaker for the team when you see his flaws.
Do you think that Kyrie could lead the Cavs to the finals if Lebron was injured?
He's allowed to score like that? You're making it seem like the he's along for the ride to just turn up and score when he feels like it, and not the 1b player who actually carried them throughout the entire postseason through his scoring. LeBron had a ton [hyperbole] of garbage points in games throughout the playoffs, especially in the first half of the Finals - it was Kyrie who was actually bearing the load during the more pivotal possession exchanges of Games 3, 4 and 5.
Of course Kyrie doesn't have more impact than LeBron. Why are we falling into this argument?
This is complete nonsense, Kyrie raises his game in the playoffs because his skillset allows him to. Not because of this distorted narrative of LeBron bearing the weight of running the offense and consistently creating for the team - especially considering their playmaking duties were about 60/40 during the first three rounds. LeBron actually took a backseat during some of the games, which allowed Kyrie to handle an increased load to get him prepped for the Finals.
Why do I feel like you're trying to get me to argue that Kyrie has more impact than LeBron?
Of course not, for two simple facts - Kyrie doesn't have the impact that LeBron does and the team is built around LeBron and not Kyrie. Replace LeBron with a player like Hayward (with Kyrie being the #1 option) and the Cavs would've still made it into the Finals last year.
You probably only dapped me because I was defending LeBron and you're a LeBron stan. I use the same logic and reasoning when I defend or argue against other players and teams. You don't dap those because they probably conflict with you being a LeBron stan.Me too, I've found that I've dapped him in the last few days & they were my first as well.
He seem different now
And yes you have dapped me in the past, and surprise surprise it was because I was defending LeBron.
He not even the best PG on his team.Kyrie best Pg in the league??????
The Cavs O with BRON at the point>Kyrie playing primarily PG
Smoking With Cigarettes
Superstar
This thread only reminded me of how in 2014(I believe) they were hyping the Cavs to be playoff threats and it gave me hope of a Wall v Kyrie series. We may still get that series but it ain't the same level of 
Who said anything about most GMs? I'm only speaking for myself. The intrinsic problem with picking Wall over Kyrie to start a team is that you're pretty much banking on the fact that Wall will turn into an elite scorer to carry the team as a #1 option, for the simple fact of how much he dominates the ball and is essentially ineffective without it.
I. Why are you speaking as if Beal and Porter aren't playing like All-Stars this season?
II. Beal's and Porter's consistency and improvements are largely down to them and not Wall dragging them to his 'level'
III. Beal and Porter are a top-5 wing support cast in the league; players whom don't need the ball in their hands to be effective - players that are a great fit for Wall's style.
IV. How will we see Wall take his play to another level if he has to share touches with another "elite" player?
Not at all.
You're undervaluing the ability to play off-the-ball here. Kyrie fits with more teams/players for the simple fact he doesn't need to dominate the ball in order to be effective on offense.
I honestly wasn't reading your posts or thinking of you when I posted here. If I did I would have quoted you directly.
Kyrie is really good but I don't rate his game that high because I don't think a score first point guard is going to elevate those around them the way a more balanced approach like Wall's will. He's a better facilitator, better defender and can also score so I find him to be a more well rounded player and a better one over all that organizations who are about winnings championships would favor as a building block.
I also give wall the benefit of the doubt as he's by far the best player on his team and has taken his squad to the playoffs. Kyrie is a sidekick and Cleveland was dreadful when he was their #1 option. Not an entirely fair thing to say as that roster was bad, but yeah.
#SOG_soldier
New York knicks and phoenix suns stan
Kyrie can't carry a team by himself. Wall can. End of dicussion
#SOG_soldier
New York knicks and phoenix suns stan
Those things only matter when it's shyt on melo time. Kyrie couldnt even make his team decent without bron. Imagine the wiz with uncle drew as the best playerSo fukk defense?
fukk the ability to make players better?
fukk being a leader?
fukk winning and leading your team as the #1 option?
yall crazy