Soccer = Skill and Technique (USA Needs to Understand This)

[#1 pick]

Oh, and somebody posted this gif as support for the "but if we just had more ATHLETICISM" argument at some point in the thread:

I'm not going to pontificate any more (my last post was far too long as is), but this is roughly 15% athleticism and 85% skill being shown here. Yes, Bale's athleticism is important here, but if he doesn't have the requisite ball skills to supplement it to begin with, it doesn't happen.

An American player that tried this would probably get the ball kicked out of play be the defender or would try Bale's trick and punt the ball into the 5th row somewhere.

We know you need skill or else Eddie Johnson would be world class. We are saying, if the best played the sport and were trained properly, we would dominate. What's so hard about that notion?

We clearly will have many to play so we can get the skilled guys, the technique guys, the geniuses but if you don't play, we will never know your genius.

 

[Malta]

Oh, and somebody posted this gif as support for the "but if we just had more ATHLETICISM" argument at some point in the thread:

I'm not going to pontificate any more (my last post was far too long as is), but this is roughly 15% athleticism and 85% skill being shown here. Yes, Bale's athleticism is important here, but if he doesn't have the requisite ball skills to supplement it to begin with, it doesn't happen.

An American player that tried this would probably get the ball kicked out of play be the defender or would try Bale's trick and punt the ball into the 5th row somewhere.

@ 15% athleticism, the stuff you dudes come up with is comical, you're watching one man outrun a defender that took a more direct path to the ball while another man takes a indirect path @ an angle and still gets there first, and you attribute that to skill. That play never develops that way without outright showcase of speed, obviously skills play a role, but pure outright footspeed played just as much in it.


That's like looking at this play -

And saying "That play is 15% athleticism, 85% skill, I mean if he didn't have a dribble and an understanding of pick and roll defense he never would have been able to use his 40" vertical"

 

[#1 pick]

No it wouldn't breh... it's like y'all don't get that just cranking up the speed,size and strength will somehow negate the fact that multiple countries have nearly 100+ years of soccer culture on the US.

That don't mean shyt tho. We get immigrants from off the boat than most other countries. This isn't Korea my nikka.

 

[#1 pick]

@ 15% athleticism, the stuff you dudes come up with is comical, you're watching one man outrun a defender that took a more direct path to the ball while another man takes a indirect path @ an angle and still gets there first, and you attribute that to skill. That play never develops that way without outright showcase of speed, obviously skills play a role, but pure outright footspeed played just as much in it.


That's like looking at this play -

And saying "That play is 15% athleticism, 85% skill, I mean if he didn't have a dribble and an understanding of pick and roll defense he never would have been able to use his 40" vertical"

If it was 15% athleticism, that means that someone like Tab Ramos can do what Bale just did. The stupidity by these soccer brehs is beyond foolish. They think we saying it's just athletic ability, we fukking know it's not. Same is true for other sports in America. If it was about athletic ability, Vernon Ghoston would have been a superstar but without it to a degree, you probably don't have a chance at the next level.

 

[Ces1ne?]

Throughout the thread people KEEP bringing Zlatan up as some sort of trump card.......He's a freak of nature, so to think American athletes built similar to him would definitely flourish if they chose soccer instead of another sport is just crazy. It's not normal for a 6'5 dude to be able to move like him on the pitch& do what he can with the ball....which makes it EVEN crazier that he's considered one of the best of his generation, especially technique & skill-wise.

 

[TrueEpic08]

@ 15% athleticism, the stuff you dudes come up with is comical, you're watching one man outrun a defender that took a more direct path to the ball while another man takes a indirect path @ an angle and still gets there first, and you attribute that to skill. That play never develops that way without outright showcase of speed, obviously skills play a role, but pure outright footspeed played just as much in it.


That's like looking at this play -

And saying "That play is 15% athleticism, 85% skill, I mean if he didn't have a dribble and an understanding of pick and roll defense he never would have been able to use his 40" vertical"

Exaggeration, whatever.

My point still stands. He got there despite taking a longer route to the ball. Big whoop. The ball skills are what's really important there, and are what really makes that play happen. Tell me, what happens if Bale gets there and his ball skills are third rate? He kicks it into the barricade? He fukks the shot up at the net like Wondolowski did?

And really, if Rose "didn't have a dribble and an understanding of pick and roll defense," that play doesn't happen either, so there. Freak athletes bust out of the NBA all the time, you of all people should know this. Anthony Randoph is a freak athlete that rides the bench. Kobe's knees are damn near shot, and have been worn for years, yet he can still put down 20+ plus because of his developed skillset and BBall intelligence. What's the debate around Wade right now? So it goes...

My point is merely a simple one, reiterated throughout this thread: athleticism is always and forever subordinate to ball skills. Especially in football. If that isn't rectified, and the bigger, faster, stronger mindset doesn't change, then US Soccer will never develop into an elite power at any point.

Elite Ball Skills minus Athleticism=Andrea Pirlo

Elite Athleticism minus Ball Skills=Eddie Johnson

It's a simplification, but the point seems pretty evident to me.

 

[Malta]

Exaggeration, whatever.

My point still stands. He got there despite taking a longer route to the ball. Big whoop. The ball skills are what's really important there, and are what really makes that play happen. Tell me, what happens if Bale gets there and his ball skills are third rate? He kicks it into the barricade? He fukks the shot up at the net like Wondolowski did?

And really, if Rose "didn't have a dribble and an understanding of pick and roll defense," that play doesn't happen either, so there. Freak athletes bust out of the NBA all the time, you of all people should know this. Anthony Randoph is a freak athlete that rides the bench. Kobe's knees are damn near shot, and have been worn for years, yet he can still put down 20+ plus because of his developed skillset and BBall intelligence. What's the debate around Wade right now? So it goes...

My point is merely a simple one, reiterated throughout this thread: athleticism is always and forever subordinate to ball skills. Especially in football. If that isn't rectified, and the bigger, faster, stronger mindset doesn't change, then US Soccer will never develop into an elite power at any point.

Elite Ball Skills-Athleticism=Andrea Pirlo

Elite Athleticism-Ball Skills=Eddie Johnson

It's a simplification, but the point seems pretty evident to me.

It was a HUGE exaggeration, that's the issue, I don't get why you guys try to downplay the athleticism of Soccer players. I said it in another thread, they are great athletes and downplaying their athleticism does them a disservice, that play was a showcase of speed more than anything else and attributing it to 85% skill is insane. Nobody on this forum could have kept up with him, and that is why he's an athlete and we are not, in addition to the skills he has.

That play by Rose doesn't happen without athleticism, that is the point, I'm not about to say it was 85% skill because he has an elite handle.

 

[MegaTronBomb!]

That don't mean shyt tho. We get immigrants from off the boat than most other countries. This isn't Korea my nikka.

It does mean something breh...

despite this being a country of immigrants, we have no soccer culture here...and to think that somehow we will close a 100+ year gap with Germany,England,Spain,Italy,France,Portugal,Brazil etc. just cause we got some superior athletes who can play soccer.... is just laughable.

like we're skipping being respectable at the game ( where we aren't even at yet), and going all the way to super power..... with no stops in between

 

[bnm8907]

No it wouldn't breh... it's like y'all don't get that just cranking up the speed,size and strength will somehow negate the fact that multiple countries have nearly 100+ years of soccer culture on the US.

No I do get that. What Im saying if we ever got our elte athletes technique at or close to the top we be a huge problem. Obviosly America treats soccer
as a secound tier sport at best so its a mute point.

 

[bnm8907]

We know you need skill or else Eddie Johnson would be world class. We are saying, if the best played the sport and were trained properly, we would dominate. What's so hard about that notion?

We clearly will have many to play so we can get the skilled guys, the technique guys, the geniuses but if you don't play, we will never know your genius.

exactly

 

[TrueEpic08]

It was a HUGE exaggeration, that's the issue, I don't get why you guys try to downplay the athleticism of Soccer players. I said it in another thread, they are great athletes and downplaying their athleticism does them a disservice, that play was a showcase of speed more than anything else and attributing it to 85% skill is insane.

That play by Rose doesn't happen without athleticism, that is the point, I'm not about to say it was 85% skill because he has an elite handle.

I can see that issue, but I think that the reason that people do that is to illustrate just how MASSIVELY important ball skills are in football relative to technique. It's an exaggeration that people believe is necessary to make the point. Yeah, Bale's essentially a developmental fluke, but without elite level ball skills, that play never gets off the ground. It's just not possible without a player possessing them (another example of the massive importance of elite level ball skills can be seen in the first 2 minutes of the Belgium/US game. With the way that the US was shredded, we could have replaced the entire starting 11 with 11 Westbrooks of equal skill and still gotten killed in nearly the same manner. It wouldn't have mattered much at all).

Really, I would even go so far to argue that a player with elite ball skills and mediocre athleticism is infinitely more useful to a side than a super athlete with mediocre ball skills. You can position a guy such as the former to make best use of their skills (Pirlo example) but the latter is almost functionally useless (what's Eddie Johnson doing now?). That's why the skills>athleticism argument is pushed so hard, even to ridiculous extremes. Because ball skills and tactical skill is SO much more important than athleticism in football.

 

[Juven]

Soccer legend tim howard played basketball
https://screen.yahoo.com/tim-howard-prep-basketball-phenom-130642015.html

our athletes are tailor made for this. I know for a fact we would produce the best goalies ever. Honestly I can see our athletes dominating every position in soccer.

 

[Malta]

I can see that issue, but I think that the reason that people do that is to illustrate just how MASSIVELY important ball skills are in football relative to technique. It's an exaggeration that people believe is necessary to make the point. Yeah, Bale's essentially a developmental fluke, but without elite level ball skills, that play never gets off the ground. It's just not possible without a player possessing them (another example of the massive importance of elite level ball skills can be seen in the first 2 minutes of the Belgium/US game. With the way that the US was shredded, we could have replaced the entire starting 11 with 11 Westbrooks of equal skill and still gotten killed in nearly the same manner. It wouldn't have mattered much at all).

Breh, Lukaku looked like a grown ass Uncle standing next to his 10 year old nephew when Beasley tried to defend him, Beasley was giving up almost 100lbs. Belgium was bigger, stronger and faster on top of being more skilled, they are the tallest team in the World Cup with an average height of 6'1". With 11 dudes Westbrook's size with his athleticism and the same exact skill level of the current team USA, we would at the very least have been able to defend better, especially with Lukaku just throwing people out the way

Really, I would even go so far to argue that a player with elite ball skills and mediocre athleticism is infinitely more useful to a side than a super athlete with mediocre ball skills. You can position a guy such as the former to make best use of their skills (Pirlo example) but the latter is almost functionally useless (what's Eddie Johnson doing now?). That's why the skills>athleticism argument is pushed so hard, even to ridiculous extremes. Because ball skills and tactical skill is SO much more important than athleticism in football.

But, you're downplaying athleticism to the point of absurdity ie. 15%, this is a sport centered around running with explosive bursts of speed at time, no doubt you need skill, but that doesn't change the fact that athletic feats are taking place. If they weren't shows like "Tested to the Limit" wouldn't be doing hour long specials on Ronaldo, would they?

 

[TrueEpic08]

Breh, Lukaku looked like a grown ass Uncle standing next to his 10 year old nephew when Beasley tried to defend him, Beasley was giving up almost 100lbs. Belgium was bigger, stronger and faster on top of being more skilled, they are the tallest team in the World Cup with an average height of 6'1". With 11 dudes Westbrook's size with his athleticism and the same exact skill level of the current team USA, we would at the very least have been able to defend better, especially with Lukaku just throwing people out the way



But, you're downplaying athleticism to the point of absurdity ie. 15%, this is a sport centered around running with explosive bursts of speed at time, no doubt you need skill, but that doesn't change the fact that athletic feats are taking place. If they weren't shows like "Tested to the Limit" wouldn't be doing hour long specials on Ronaldo, would they?

Lukaku wasn't on the pitch for the sequence I was talking about. And really, what killed them wasn't their lack of athleticism, but their inability to gain any control of the midfield which comes down to, yes, ball skills. Same with Germany and their 67% ball possession percentage in the US' final group stage match.

I can agree that my statement was absurd, but the point behind why I thought to make it so absurd still stands. Ball skills are so much more important than athleticism in the game, to the point that focusing on the latter before the former in any way, shape or form will handicap US soccer development immensely. Teach ball skills from the cradle up to the broadest range of players, and eventually you'll get some good/great athletes that can play elite level football. But the focus must be on the development of skill and technique long, long, LONG before worrying about whether the player is going to be a super athlete or not.

 

[Bboystyle]

The difference between basketball and soccer is that basketball only has one super power while soccer has, France, England, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Nigeria, etc If you think usa just gonna come through and smash buildings because they have one or two great athletes....im sorry breh.