Spin: Introduction to Socialism

[BaggerofTea]

Every company is not some multibillion dollar multinational

And unsustainable loss = going out of business. If a company spends more than it takes in, it's going to go out of business, and take all of those workers' jobs with it. So the interests of the business have to be factored into the equation.

This infantile, binary "us vs them" good guy bad guy bullshyt undermines socialist progress. If you guys just want to pontificate and masturbate to Marx then you can stay in your bubble. But if socialism is really going to take a hold in the real world the people pushing it have to have some working understanding of the world they are trying to sell socialism to. Screaming vague platitudes about "exploitation" is not going to cut the mustard with anybody intelligent

The workers will out for the interest of the business to ensure they say employed....

No one is asserting "us vs them". What people are asserting is equal opportunity

 

[BaggerofTea]

Bit unfair to Late Trotsky here. Lev came around to supporting active democracy both within and without the party.

Agreed

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

The workers will out for the interest of the business to ensure they say employed....

No one is asserting "us vs them". What people are asserting is equal opportunity

Bruh like I said I have heard socialist proposals that would drive companies out of business immediately. It's most def "us vs them" because the end goal of socialism is to take business owners out of the picture.

 

[BaggerofTea]

Bruh like I said I have heard socialist proposals that would drive companies out of business immediately. It's most def "us vs them" because the end goal of socialism is to take business owners out of the picture.

One thing you have to realize is that socialism has been hijacked by certain bourgeoisie elements

Instead incorporating the business owners into redistribution to the masses they would rather just transfer ownership from one set of the bourgeoisie to another.

 

[JahFocus CS]

If Napoleon is in here trolling, please @ a mod to delete his posts. This is an educational thread for dealing seriously with material and ideas. Thanks.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

One thing you have to realize is that socialism has been hijacked by certain bourgeoisie elements

Instead incorporating the business owners into redistribution to the masses they would rather just transfer ownership from one set of the bourgeoisie to another.

How can business owners be voluntarily incorporated into the wholesale confiscation of their property? What you are proposing is akin to someone not putting up a fight as they are robbed at gunpoint.

 

[BaggerofTea]

How can business owners be voluntarily incorporated into the wholesale confiscation of their property? What you are proposing is akin to someone not putting up a fight as they are robbed at gunpoint.

Thats complaining about someone pointing a gun at a robber

 

[Shogun]

You're so disingenuous it's ridiculous. Social democratic parties have lost voters to populist parties which basically promise social democracy, but only for natives.

There was literally a poll in Finland last year asking if Finns would support even higher taxes to maintain the welfare state, like 90% support. Scandinavians love the welfare state. They have issues with an aging population, which is solvable with increased immigration but is in part driving an uptick in nativism. It's contentious but not a real issue until any nativist party or party that actually wants to dismantle the welfare state(which no major right party in Scandinavia wants to do) actually leads a government. The welfare states are popular and not going anywhere.

My point was that your only evidence of a successful welfare state is the current Nordic countries. I feel that thats too small of a sample size, and one in which success is still too new to properly judge. The litany of failed attempts at socialism can't be swept under the rug because of one example of possible success.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

One thing you have to realize is that socialism has been hijacked by certain bourgeoisie elements

Instead incorporating the business owners into redistribution to the masses they would rather just transfer ownership from one set of the bourgeoisie to another.

So i'm supposed to start a business and hand it to someone who doesn't know how to run it?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

My point was that your only evidence of a successful welfare state is the current Nordic countries. I feel that thats too small of a sample size, and one in which success is still too new to properly judge. The litany of failed attempts at socialism can't be swept under the rug because of one example of possible success.

its barely even a massive success.

Limited economic growth, tons of subsidizes by the government to keep them afloat, none of the geopolitical influences or obligations that dictate how their domestic works are managed or utilized, its just a completely naive view of the world.

 

[BaggerofTea]

So i'm supposed to start a business and hand it to someone who doesn't know how to run it?

It's about redistributing ownership of the business.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

It's about redistributing ownership of the business.

Sounds like jealousy to me.

 

[JahFocus CS]

get all your posts dapped by Napoleon brehs

 

[Tate]

My point was that your only evidence of a successful welfare state is the current Nordic countries. I feel that thats too small of a sample size, and one in which success is still too new to properly judge. The litany of failed attempts at socialism can't be swept under the rug because of one example of possible success.

Wrong. Social democratic programs are successful everywhere. The Nordics are just particularly generous and rigorous in their commitment to social democracy.

 

[Shogun]

Wrong. Social democratic programs are successful everywhere. The Nordics are just particularly generous and rigorous in their commitment to social democracy.

My first post said I agree with most social democratic ideas.

Do you think that social democratic beliefs are synonymous with Marxism?