Spin: Introduction to Socialism

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

@Aelyas en passant you haven't read a single thing in this thread, have you?

To be fair, the opening reference material was complete self indulgent garbage. This is not the first time I've read some socialist text that turned out to be complete bullshyt upon cursory examination. At some point you have to come to the conclusion that the whole theory is nonsense

I'm definitely in agreement that workers in general are exploited and that everyone would benefit from a more equitable distribution of power and profit. I wholly disagree that the only realistic way towards such a conclusion is socialism/communism. There are just too many unanswered basic questions about both theories (like all theoretical economic models) that make either way completely unrealistic. I'm convinced socialists/communists/ideologists prefer talking about their economic systems to actually initiating said systems in real life. Marx was the KING of this.

 

[JahFocus CS]

This is a great piece on Jacobin that touches on topics like class conflict under capitalism and who is considered a worker: Workers Hold the Keys | Jacobin

 

[Pressure]

Why move to a thriving constitutional republic and fight to turn it into a socialist nation instead of just moving to a socialist nation?

 

[afterlife2009]

The Real Problem With Crowdfunding Health Care

 

[CHL]

Why move to a thriving constitutional republic and fight to turn it into a socialist nation instead of just moving to a socialist nation?

Which of these imaginary "Socialist" nations would you suggest?

 

[Pressure]

Which of these imaginary "Socialist" nations would you suggest?

that seems to be an inherent flaw in YOUR position, not mine.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Which of these imaginary "Socialist" nations would you suggest?

I think I heard workers democratically control production and distribution of resources in Atlantis

 

[Pressure]

I think I heard workers democratically control production and distribution of resources in Atlantis

There are a number of highly functional country that incorporate many of the tenants of socialism you support or want to America to adapt. It just seems mire reasonable to move to one of those countries than believe America will make those changes.

This isn't an indictment on socialism, but more of a personal QoL question.

 

[CHL]

I think I heard workers democratically control production and distribution of resources in Atlantis

iirc Gotham at least has a thriving cooperative sector & free tertiary education

 

[JahFocus CS]

There are a number of highly functional country that incorporate many of the tenants of socialism you support or want to America to adapt. It just seems mire reasonable to move to one of those countries than believe America will make those changes.

This isn't an indictment on socialism, but more of a personal QoL question.

Socialism is a mode of production, not a collection of policies. It is the democratic control of an economy (production and distribution) by workers.

As far as the personal quality of living thing goes, most working class people would undeniably enjoy a better life in Europe because the working class fought for and secured more concessions in those countries. But that's taking the thread off on a tangent.

 

[JahFocus CS]

60 minute presentation explaining commodity production, the source of profits under capitalism (unpaid labor), exploitation, etc: https://s3.amazonaws.com/S2014/S2014+-+Who+Produces+the+Wealth+in+Society.mp3
(from Who produces the wealth in society?: Marx’s labor theory of value | WeAreMany.org)

 

[Maschine_Man]

We're talking about the violent historical roots of the current socioeconomic order and the violent apparatuses that continue to sustain and protect it, you clown.

Chinese workers were committing suicide at Foxconn factories a few years ago because of what they were being subjected to.

so what you are saying is treatment of workers in a socialist country like China is bad...but having socialism over here is good?

 

[JahFocus CS]

so what you are saying is treatment of workers in a socialist country like China is bad...but having socialism over here is good?

If you read the thread, you would know that China isn't socialist.

So either read through the thread or don't clog it up with your nonsense. Thanks. Otherwise I'll have to ask a mod to clean it up.

 

[Maschine_Man]

If you read the thread, you would know that China isn't socialist.

So either read through the thread or don't clog it up with your nonsense. Thanks. Otherwise I'll have to ask a mod to clean it up.

First, I don't need to read this thread to know that China isn't a true socialist country, and is a Socialist market economy. However, true socialism will never exist.

Regardless, I am not against many socialist ideas, however I am not for true socialism.

in 2017, there is no way any one construct will apply and be successful, we need a hybrid system that takes ideas from multiple philosophies.

 

[JahFocus CS]

First, I don't need to read this thread to know that China isn't a true socialist country, and is a Socialist market economy. However, true socialism will never exist.

Regardless, I am not against many socialist ideas, however I am not for true socialism.

in 2017, there is no way any one construct will apply and be successful, we need a hybrid system that takes ideas from multiple philosophies.

Go make a thread then to pontificate about socialism, this isn't the thread for that since you're not addressing any specific planks or elements of it.