Bilz
Superstar
Wait, now you're denying this happened? Right after you just complained about it happening?
SportCenter just ended the Kawhi Kobe Clutch Debate
- Thread starter Darealtwo1
- Start date
Im asking you, what “elite” players was Kobe inefficient compared to given his scoring volume in the 2000s era?
It is if he is using himself as a barometer. I heard someone else on 710 say that espn employees all want the Lakers to do well because Laker success = ratings. But we are going to listen to the dumbass who thought Kobe would take the Lakers out of the west in 2005?
WANTING THE LAKERS TO DO WELL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HATING KOBE .... THOSE SAME CATS WHO WERE GLAD LAKERS WERE DOING WELL DUE TO RATINGS WERE ALSO THE SAME IDIOTS WHO WANTED PAU TO GET ALL THE CREDIT WHEN WE WON.
THERE ARE KOBE GUYS AND LEBRON GUYS, AND THEY TYPICALLY DONT AGREE ON MUCH.... AGAIN, SCOOP IS STATING FACTS BY SAYIN THAT MOST OF BSPN IS PRO-LEBRON GUYS.
MYCHAL THOMPSON AND JOHN IRELAND ARE NOT KOBE GUYS .. THEY BOTH LIKE LEBRON BETTER. NOT SURE ABOUT TRUDELL.
Bilz
Superstar
Not many. He was labeled inefficient compared to the very best, Jordan, LeBron, KG, Duncan, etc. He was criticized for shooting well below 50%. But was he labeled inefficient compared to guys like Iverson, Granger, Vince, Stackhouse, etc? Not much from what I remember.
Lebron, had a > 10 VORP multiple times when he was with the cavs the first time
Kobe’s highest VORP is 7.2
KG had a TS of 55.5% from 2000-2010.
Duncan at 55.2%.
Kobe at 55.8%.
Bron from ‘06-‘10 was at 57.6%.
And yet, that’s really all people have been harping on for most of his career.
That was a bad era for everyone offensively and he seems to be penalized more than others for it.
My point is, his relative inefficiency is a myth.
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Bilz
Superstar
Only if you choose to ignore that Kobe was receiving way more attention and praise than those guys during that decade. Where were the espn debates saying KG or Duncan was the best ever?
LeBron started later so he didn't enter the conversation until the mid 2000's but at the time, he had a lot of people saying he just put up pretty stats but wasn't a winner.
There has always been a strong push to glorify Kobe. The "hate" often stems from how over the top the love is. Honestly it's ridiculous that Kobe is even being brought up right now as the gold standard for clutch shots when the numbers have never supported that shyt.
Bilz, I could give a fukk about what praise he was and wasn’t receiving. You can chicken and egg that argument all night.
My point in my original post is about his perceived inefficiency and the lack of evidence to prove the narrative. That’s it.
Bilz
Superstar
There is plenty of evidence for Kobe's efficiency falling short of those players despite the regular claims that he was far superior to anyone else in the game. You are choosing to focus on Kobe's peak season and the fact that his prime overlaps well with the 2000-2010 decade. Try going season by season and seeing how many times you can argue that Kobe was the most efficient player.
When looking at the very best players, 45% shooting on high shot attempts was just not that impressive. Compared to average players, it was just fine.
Where did I say he was most efficient Bilz? Where did anyone else say he was most efficient? Where?
Bilz
Superstar
Same place where I said that you said he was most efficient. I can do this too
If you really want these answers, you can read what I'm writing. Throughout Kobe's prime, the default answer to any questions like best scorer, most skilled, best overall, most competitive, best shot maker, best one on one player, best basketball iq, most clutch, best winner, etc was almost always Kobe. A player that checks all of those boxes should be clearly ahead of the pack. But he wasn't. A few other players were always either right with him or ahead of him. And they didn't have to take more shots than everyone else on the court to get there. When you compared to Kobe to those top players, perception never seemed to link up with reality.
Since '99- '01 when it became clear the "arrogant, pompous, privileged, gunner" was going to be a problem and kill the league in spite of the jealousy he received , Kobe has been the measuring stick. Every good to great wing has been compared to him and measured alongside him. They weren't debating Tmac vs AI like that, and at lunch you weren't either. Your pops wasn't talking about Ray Allen vs Vince Carter at the barbershop while you where in the chair getting that #12 schoolboy low. It wasn't even Wade vs Lebron, and they came in the same draft class. All of those names -- and countless of others -- never got more of a rub or interest than when fans and media were pitting them against Kobe, often in attempts to tear Kobe down. Most amusing, almost every single one of those names will look you in the eye and tell you Kobe was better. He is and has been the barometer for the last 20 years.
On a team with prime Melo, Wade, Paul & Lebron (and a rising Durant) who did they all defer to en route to an Olympic gold medal with the game on the line? Is it really shocking that even in a completely different era, the media is now on Kwahi vs Kobe even though the latter has been retired for almost half a decade? This didn't discredit Kobe's legacy, it only adds to it. The more his detractors kick and flail in their attempts to put wing player #739443 over him, the more they ensure his legacy never fades.
Its directly proving the point that outside of MJ, no other wing player in the history of the sport is seen as such a barometer. For a guy that wasn't really that good, it doesn't really add up. This has been going on since before Kobe was old enough to drink alcohol legally. This stuff with Leonard isn't being done with the intent to elevate him. Its with the intent to knock Kobe off of his perch. If MJ is the gold standard, Bean is the silver. Been that way since he won his first championship in 2000 & it hasn't changed.
On a team with prime Melo, Wade, Paul & Lebron (and a rising Durant) who did they all defer to en route to an Olympic gold medal with the game on the line? Is it really shocking that even in a completely different era, the media is now on Kwahi vs Kobe even though the latter has been retired for almost half a decade? This didn't discredit Kobe's legacy, it only adds to it. The more his detractors kick and flail in their attempts to put wing player #739443 over him, the more they ensure his legacy never fades.
Its directly proving the point that outside of MJ, no other wing player in the history of the sport is seen as such a barometer. For a guy that wasn't really that good, it doesn't really add up. This has been going on since before Kobe was old enough to drink alcohol legally. This stuff with Leonard isn't being done with the intent to elevate him. Its with the intent to knock Kobe off of his perch. If MJ is the gold standard, Bean is the silver. Been that way since he won his first championship in 2000 & it hasn't changed.
Are you living in some alternate reality? Seriously, what the fukk are you talking about? In no place did I say Kobe was the most efficient. If there was, show me.Same place where I said that you said he was most efficient. I can do this too
If you really want these answers, you can read what I'm writing. Throughout Kobe's prime, the default answer to any questions like best scorer, most skilled, best overall, most competitive, best shot maker, best one on one player, best basketball iq, most clutch, best winner, etc was almost always Kobe. A player that checks all of those boxes should be clearly ahead of the pack. But he wasn't. A few other players were always either right with him or ahead of him. And they didn't have to take more shots than everyone else on the court to get there. When you compared to Kobe to those top players, perception never seemed to link up with reality.
Yo @10bandz @Killer Instinct can yall find what he’s talking about?
Compare Kobe against motherfukkas that will NEVER see the NBA Finals much less win ONE brehs