Start-Bench-Cut(DPOY edition):Draymond, Rodman, and Ben Wallace

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

5th best defender is guarding him and defensive focus is centered on "where is Steph?"

And yet compared to the other two in this convo at Dray’s peak he was Steph

 

[get these nets]

And yet compared to the other two in this convo at Dray’s peak he was Steph

Except when Steph wasn't there.

Then his numbers were what they were. Which was my point

 

[Bop Gun]

Put Draymond on Rodman's Bulls team, put Draymond on Ben Wallace's Pistons team, neither of those teams will have the same success.

Golden State will have more success with either Rodman or Wallace.

Draymond's prominence was only to sleight Steph Curry's greatness. The Warriors win NOTHING without Curry. Golden State would still win without Draymond.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

WHAT IN THE fukk
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

THAT nikka AVERAGED 8 PTS
ON 39% FG THE YR STEPH & KLAY
WERE OUT.


​

So you bring up a season where he was dealing with multiple injuries, had no incentive to win, and was dealing with the hangover of five-straight Finals appearances, to prove what exactly?

All you're doing is taking a version of Draymond at or near his lowest, and using that to speak to his scoring ability throughout his entire career.

The best version of him is a better scorer than every single version of both Ben and Rodman.

When Steph was injured during the '16 playoffs, this is what he was capable of -

He averaged 25 points over the first three games against the T'Blazers, before Steph came back and put the final nails in their casket. Neither Ben or Rodman ever showed, at any point of their respective careers, that type of scoring ability in a playoff climate.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Except when Steph wasn't there.

Then his numbers were what they were. Which was my point

I remember many WGN games where Rodman was left alone at the top of the key with attention on MJ and yet still… nothing

I still don’t see your point lol

 

[get these nets]

Worm nor Ben can facilitate

Has Worm ever defended 1-5 in the same game?

Draymond can switch on guards, QB a def, help out on a trap & then recover, protect the rim, and he had fast hands

Draymond is a unicorn

After all that

Start: Draymond
Bench: Worm
Cut: Ben

The triangle is based on reading, spacing and passing. Rodman was brought in because of his skills/tenacity and his basketball IQ

Was he the facilator that Dray's role was? No. But he understood and played well in Phil's system.

Pretty sure Worm guarded 1-5 on switches during the Finals runs of Bad Boys. He picked Magic's pocket.

Ben is a better, more versatile defender than Dray. In an era of clearly defined positions and dominant bigs. Here is in game footage of him as a young player, including switching and guarding pre injury Grant Hill. And staying in front of him.

 

[B1G_controversy]

The triangle is based on reading, spacing and passing. Rodman was brought in because of his skills/tenacity and his basketball IQ

Was he the facilator that Dray's role was? No. But he understood and played well in Phil's system.

Pretty sure Worm guarded 1-5 on switches during the Finals runs of Bad Boys. He picked Magic's pocket.

Ben is a better, more versatile defender than Dray. In an era of clearly defined positions and dominant bigs. Here is in game footage of him as a young player, including switching and guarding pre injury Grant Hill. And staying in front of him.

You lost me when you said Ben is more versatile than Draymond

Draymond is a post defender that was exclusively defending Jaylen Brown in the finals

Draymond is literally better than Worm in everything except for rebounding

And Worm wasn't 1/10th of the way asset Draymond is

Didn't Draymond have 32-15-9 in g7 of a finals game...Worm not Ben would never

 

[Tres Leches]

start big ben
bench rodman for his motor off the bench

cut draymond

 

[SCJoe]

All three are gonna be former pistons when it’s all said and done

 

[get these nets]

You lost me when you said Ben is more versatile than Draymond

Draymond is a post defender that was exclusively defending Jaylen Brown in the finals

Draymond is literally better than Worm in everything except for rebounding

And Worm wasn't 1/10th of the way asset Draymond is

Didn't Draymond have 32-15-9 in g7 of a finals game...Worm not Ben would never

Smilies are not it.
You saw Ben's agility and foot speed on display in the clip, I think he came into the league slotted to be a 2 or 3. So his early career was guarding those positions. We all saw him battling centers during his mid career, including Shaq.

Dray is too short, weak, and light in the ads to have guarded big men in that era.
Worm drew defensive duties on Shaq and held his own as well as anybody could, despite giving up inches and 50 + pounds. Incredibly strong and smart defensive player.....
keep running with all he could do is rebound better though

 

[Shadow King]

The thing is I don't know how Draymond's skillet would look or how his antics would fare outside of Golden State. So despite wanting him to start;

Start Rodman
Bench Draymond
Cut Ben

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Smilies are not it.
You saw Ben's agility and foot speed on display in the clip, I think he came into the league slotted to be a 2 or 3. So his early career was guarding those positions. We all saw him battling centers during his mid career, including Shaq.

Dray is too short, weak, and light in the ads to have guarded big men in that era.
Worm drew defensive duties on Shaq and held his own as well as anybody could, despite giving up inches and 50 + pounds. Incredibly strong and smart defensive player.....
keep running with all he could do is rebound better though

Ben Wallace…at the 2…

Breh, what?

 

[Shadow King]

Depends on the matchups and era. In today's game, I'm starting Dray, benching Ben and cutting Rodman.

In a different era, Dray would be useless because he doesn't have the raw athletic ability of Rodman or Ben....but he's way too small to bang with Olajuwon, Robinson, Mutombo, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning etc. Rodman/Ben could at least grab some rebounds and hustle. Dray would be too obvious of a defensive liability.

Like Ben/Worm are what they are. Dray has a more versatile game...but who exactly is he gonna use that on in the 80s/90s?

Rodman was 210 and banged with all those players just fine.

 

[get these nets]

Ben Wallace…at the 2…

Breh, what?

though it bears remembering that the Boston Celtics – after Wallace went undrafted in 1996 – brought him to Summer League to convert him to shooting guard

In this or any era, Pistons great Ben Wallace a worthy Hall of Famer

There’s an argument to be made that basketball’s Hall of Fame contains its fair share of players who wouldn’t be members had they played in another era. Just don’t make that argument about Ben Wallace. He was a four-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year in an era where offense was a perpetual...

www.nba.com

 

[Monsanto]

Not surprising, Golden State confuses so many people.

Curry's gravity, Draymond's impact. To the common viewer it just looks like basketball, to those who played or pay attention it's something extraordinary.

He's the best big man passer alongside Jokic. I know commentators always freak out when someone full court passes accurately or when Lebron/Jokic make no look passes, but Draymond is right there too. On time and reading the offense 2 steps ahead so guys get the ball, he's incredible.

Golden State wouldn't be where they're at if not for him. He takes the toughest assignment, controlling the opponent's offense. We haven't seen a defensive mind like his that willingly guards 1-5 on a nightly basis. In game adjustments immediately.

Thecoli in general sees him as a yelling drill sergeant, but his schemes, help defense, nights in the film room, 1-on-1 defense, reads and communication are all HOF level. From this era, only Kawhi, AD in the finals, and Giannis against the Hawks have impressed me as much. But those are solo runs, Draymond has been doing this since 2014.